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I've not heard too many much better when it comes to pure sound quality. Although I think they have some major drawbacks-- namely lack of bass and treble extension. The silver damping version I would consider reference class, it's very flat and smooth in its frequency response except for those rolloffs.
Well, you and I disagree on whether the reduced bass is a drawback or just the nature of it. And personally I consider the lack of treble extension a feature, not a draw-back. HE-400 is the closest to HD650 I get without treble fatigue, but HD650, I can, and have, had them playing for many hours straight without fatigue. Treble rolloff = + for me!
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ht (I've read some complaints about clamp force, which I've never personally understood, but I'm not doubting that some people may have issues).
I used to think HD650 had a vice grip clamp and could be considered uncomfortable. Then I bought HiFiMans. And Denons which don't clamp hard but have a narrow under-padded front part of the ear-pad. I now realize how truly comfortable HD650 is...
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I guess it's because I really want a really supreme headphone....a headphone that others say are one of the best headphones out there....guess that's why
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You shouldn't want a headphone based on what others think. You should want a headphone based on what your ears think.
+1. For what it's worth, the HD650 has been around for almost 10 years. I bought mine 5.5 years or so ago. Back then it was the best headphone money could buy for under $10k (Stax, Orpheus, that sort of thing.) Back then the three competitors for the top spot were HD650, K701, DT880. All were at around the $500 mark, and nearly all conversation here at H-F was dominated by those three. Today a significant portion of the conversation is still focused on these headphones, and instead of replacing the $500 flagship headphone lineup with newer, better models, the manufacturers seem to have decided to leave them where they were and introduce the new stuff at double and triple the price along side them.
So if your definition of "supreme" includes headphones that a few years ago were the pinnacle of audio at any price, had people spending $10k for signal chains for them, and the closest thing to an upgrade costs 2x-3x more, and no one can seem to agree one if they're better in all aspects or just some, then, yes, you have a supreme headphone
Otherwise, save up for HD800, but don't be surprised in a few years when they release and HD850 or HD900 for $2500 and yours is no longer supreme again
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To me. They are the perfect headphone. To me... Every time I think of grabbing an HE500 or an LCD2 (I'm very treble sensitive, so I feel those are my only two "upgrade" options) I throw on my 650s and ask, will I enjoy them more than I'm enjoying this right now? Answer is usually NO. I think I only want something new to get something new.
Everyone has likes and dislikes and if you are striving to have the 'Best" out there based on what other people think, you're going to need to drop some serious coin ($10K+) to impress the folks around here.
I agree with you fully, you put my thoughts to words. I'm treble sensitive as well which makes me cautious of HD800 and T1. I'm also sensitive to big things on my head and though I was strongly tempted by LCD-2, I think it's wisest that HE-400 is the heaviest headphone I have and go no heavier. I always answer that same question when listening to my stuff. Will an upgrade improve my music enjoyment and the answer is usually the same as yours. I have HE-400, reportedly very similar to HE-500 though a bit below. I still prefer my decked out HD650s best once I built a nice setup around them. But I like both of them quite a lot. There may be more technical improvement in the better cans. The soundstaging improvements would be very welcome to me. However detail retrieval improvements, I don't think would change my enjoyment of the music, there's already more detail in a well set up HD650 system than you'd get to hear at a live performance...what they heck do I need more for? Heck my SE535's should run with the best of them for detail retrieval. BA amatures do detail easily. And I really like them. But give my my HD650s on tubes any day....
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It doesn't sound bad when not driven properly... but amping it will make it sound a little bit better.
It depends on the improper amp and why its improper. Some will make it sound bad, veiled, etc. Others will just make it sound overwhelmingly average.
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I'm hoping when I get my little dot mk3, that's it's a huge improvement...right now I'm using a 12 volt amp....so let's hope I reach my Nirvana....
Audio Nirvana is not something you find. It finds you. After you spend every penny you've ever had on audio gear, with nothing left to spend on it, audio Nirvana will have found you at last!
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When I hear the phrase "reference quality" in regards to headphones, I think "neutral." To me, "reference" means critical listening and thorough audio examination requiring neutral response.
So, to me, no, I wouldn't call the HD650's reference quality. They're definitely slightly warm in sound signature.
I WOULD, however, call them hi-fi.
FINALLY, someone who rightfully calls them hi-fi instead of the dreaded (and abhorrently false) "mid-fi"!!
In the case of HD650 I think "reference" was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Generally reference means flat, colorless sound, and means a general intention of studio-type use in recording, mixing, tracking, monitoring, mastering, whatever. HD600 was that. Since HD650 was carried over from the HD600 line, they stuck with the reference naming for marketing despite being anything but neutral with it's self described warm tone. However due to its extreme popularity and long life, it is now the reference of references, as it's impossible to hear any useful comparison of gear that doesn't involve the word "HD650" somewhere in the comparison. Virtually all gear is compared using HD650 as the baseline these days. If that isn't fulfilling the role of a reference, nothing is
so I'm trying...lol
one for each headphone and one for the camera hehehe!
