[dynamic headphones]

The more expensive your product is, the less people will buy it. The less people buy it, the more expensive it gets, the less will buy it and so the spiral goes up.

that reminds me of currawong's review of the susvara, he said something like a lot of people in china will usually just think the product is bad if the price is low, so they have to price susvara at a very high amount.

 

[TDinCali]

You guys do understand how a business for profit works right? There are other costs besides the raw materials.

 

[plumpudding2]

Everyone is so surprised because precisely zero other true summit-fi products have less than 400% more expensive driver replacements, and even then, those replacements are just the drivers. Focal and Audeze also have R&D costs (small market compared to consumer headphones) and dealer margin (that's why street price is lower) to recoup.

I honestly greatly respect Hifiman for replacing drivers at cost, I have a feeling other companies do it either to rake in extra cash or to keep up the pretense of expensive headphones also being expensive to produce.

 

[dynamic headphones]

I honestly greatly respect Hifiman for replacing drivers at cost, I have a feeling other companies do it either to rake in extra cash or to keep up the pretense of expensive headphones also being expensive to produce.

it is nice that they don't overcharge, i agree. just surprised to hear how much it is.

 

[Exekuhtor]

The bulk of the price of any high-tech product is always development (and machinery to produce it).
By the way: I just got sent a free (!) pair of Susvara pads + the headband because i wanted to replace them. Customer service was super friendly and they said that my Susvara is still in warranty (closing in on 2 years now, they said warranty is 3 years). I did buy it new though and sent them my serial number and receipt, but i fully expected to pay for those replacements, because in the end that stuff is just reasonable wear and tear.
So yeah, Hifiman customer service could not be better imho.

 

[dynamic headphones]

The bulk of the price of any high-tech product is always development (and machinery to produce it).
By the way: I just got sent a free (!) pair of Susvara pads + the headband because i wanted to replace them. Customer service was super friendly and they said that my Susvara is still in warranty (closing in on 2 years now, they said warranty is 3 years). I did buy it new though and sent them my serial number and receipt, but i fully expected to pay for those replacements, because in the end that stuff is just reasonable wear and tear.
So yeah, Hifiman customer service could not be better imho.

did you pay full price?

 

[Exekuhtor]

did you pay full price?

Something in between, not full price (which is 6699€), but not 4,5k€ either. I did a trade-in with an Arya and got a very nice discount.
I have a good relationship with that dealer and the trade-in option is rather unique, the market was flooded with Aryas at the time and i couldn't sell mine for a reasonable price quickly.
I honestly also wanted to get the full warranty, because i know that the Susvara will be my #1 and i knew that i will keep it for a long time, so this one time i opted out of buying used.

 

[thefitz]

I have been around for a while and people so happy with the Susvara and HiFiMAN customer service has to be the biggest redemption arc in this space, holy smokes. Look up the infamous "Edition 6" thread to see how bad things got for HiFiMAN - the "HE1000v2 6 months after HE1000v1"/Edition 6/RE2000 sequence absolutely poisoned the community, but it's clear that the industry "caught up" with the Susvara, and Fang should be very proud.

 

[chrisnyc75]

I kind of like it, you're paying 3.7k to Hifiman in R&D costs and 300 for the headphone, with the added bonus that the 3.7k is like a one time fee enabling lifetime replacement purchases. Much better than Focal charging 2k for new Utopia drivers..

Tbh, Hifiman's famously excellent customer service - especially for Susvara - was no small part of my calculation to shell out a small fortune for Susvara. If you're going to price your product like it's THE BEST thing on the market, I really respect a company that stands behind its product accordingly.

not sure what to make of this.

susvara new costs $6000. susvara new as an out of warranty replacement costs $300. this math does not add up.

See above. If you're going to make a statement to the world with your pricing that your product is THE BEST there is, you better stand behind it and support the customers that support you. Hifiman has a solid history of doing that, and so new buyers need not fear that their $6k purchase is going to die in a year or two and they'll be S.O.L.

There is no logical reason why they should cost more to manufacture... non of the materials nor the manufacturing process is even remotely expensive enough to cause an higher price.

Most Rolexes cost a few hundred dollars at most in parts & manufacturing. They aren't priced for that. They are priced because they are THE BEST and people will pay more than asked for that kind of quality, service, & exclusivity. If you don't price your product like LUXURY, it will never be luxury. You just better be sure that product lives up the label.

 

[Contrails]

They are priced because they are THE BEST and people...

I had to laugh at this. Rolex is the biggest ripoff in the watch world. It is just a status symbol thanks to clever marketing and strategy. It is nowhere near the best.

Anyway, watching this space for Susvara mk2...

 

[chrisnyc75]

I had to laugh at this. Rolex is the biggest ripoff in the watch world. It is just a status symbol thanks to clever marketing and strategy. It is nowhere near the best.

Anyway, watching this space for Susvara mk2...

Your opinion is noted (and probably not wrong), but totally irrelevant to the topic. The point is, cost of materials and manufacturing is not what makes a product worth a LUXURY price tag. Value is what the market will bear, so make your product so good the market will bear what you ask for it (or MORE).

 

[Contrails]

Your opinion is noted (and probably not wrong), but totally irrelevant to the topic. The point is, cost of materials and manufacturing is not what makes a product worth a LUXURY price tag. Value is what the market will bear, so make your product so good the market will bear what you ask for it (or MORE).

This is where you are contradicting yourself. A Susvara is priced accordingly for the sound it offers. The difference in sound between a Susvara and even a LCD-2 is huge. A Rolex does not offer any more accuracy to time keeping than a simple quartz watch. The build quality is even less stellar than a Sinn watch. People don't buy Susvara for status. If the Susvara sounded like a Hifiman He400, I am sure it would have been a huge flop and people would have absolutely shat on Hifiman. That is the difference. Hifiman spend their money more on research. That is where the money goes and in return you get your money's worth. Just because the market is willing to pay a price, does not mean it is worth it. That is solely up to you to do your own research and not fall for the hype.

 

[chrisnyc75]

This is where you are contradicting yourself. A Susvara is priced accordingly for the sound it offers. The difference in sound between a Susvara and even a LCD-2 is huge. A Rolex does not offer any more accuracy to time keeping than a simple quartz watch. The build quality is even less stellar than a Sinn watch. People don't buy Susvara for status. If the Susvara sounded like a Hifiman He400, I am sure it would have been a huge flop and people would have absolutely shat on Hifiman. That is the difference. Hifiman spend their money more on research. That is where the money goes and in return you get your money's worth. Just because the market is willing to pay a price, does not mean it is worth it. That is solely up to you to do your own research and not fall for the hype.

lol ok, I see you are VERY passionately opposed to Rolex, but are simultaneously completely missing the point. Not taking this any further in a thread that has nothing to do with Rolex beyond a reasonable comparison of top of the line pricing.

Maybe worth noting that any passionate fan of DCA or Audeze would say EXACTLY what you just said re: headphones. And yet it is Susvara that commands top $.

 

[number1sixerfan]

R&D and overhead costs matter.. but let's not be ridiculous here. We as consumers are the problem lol. Pricing and market positioning is largely due to us, the consumer paying for and validating their positioning. I am fully guilty while being fully aware. And Hifiman is one of the most egregious in their pricing lol, but they do offer an amazing product lol

Edit* I will say that it's a bit heartwarming hearing about how great the customer service has been of late. Amazing to hear lol

 

[thefitz]

lol ok, I see you are VERY passionately opposed to Rolex, but are simultaneously completely missing the point. Not taking this any further in a thread that has nothing to do with Rolex beyond a reasonable comparison of top of the line pricing.

Maybe worth noting that any passionate fan of DCA or Audeze would say EXACTLY what you just said re: headphones. And yet it is Susvara that commands top $.

Yeah, as soon as Sinn was brought up unironically you knew the jig was up. Why the hell is the #1 watch company with their in-house movements and their own freaking foundries so expensive!? What the hell's a Hublot??

The price tag (and original model name) of the Susvara caused an absolute mutiny on this forum and it was a sight to behold. However, it is no longer 50% more expensive than the next most expensive flagship, and pales in comparison to what the nonsensical IEM world is up to these days.

Again, there are contributors here with rigs where the Susvara is the cheapest component, including the freakin' cable!