HiFiMan Susvara
Apr 11, 2024 at 4:48 AM Post #25,306 of 25,594
Zhal HM1 if you want some of the blackest background you'll hear out of the Susvara. Very impressive pinpoint imaging based on my short demo with it especially in Class A feedback mode

You didn't feel class A was less grippy?

Servo mode is alot better for sus with hm1
Agree, Servo mode is much better than Class A. I felt like there was too much warmth, and possibly lack of details and dynamics with Class A. I was actually disappointed with Zahl until I listened again with Servo mode which I thought was excellent.
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 8:35 AM Post #25,308 of 25,594
You didn't feel class A was less grippy?

Class A has less control but worse performance than a good tube amp. Servo/feedback is where Susvara shines
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 9:03 AM Post #25,309 of 25,594
The only thing is Class A+Servo does scoop the midrange somewhat to give you that bass and treble extension, and tighter grip.
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 9:48 AM Post #25,310 of 25,594
Ok so I have done as I promised and conducted A/B comparison for Burson 3xGT with V6 vs V7 Vivid op amps. I replaced all 6 op amps - volume and gain stage. Note that given the nature of the comparison and that I only have 1 3XGT, I made notes while listening rather than rapid back to back A/B. If you want that you’ll need to recruit someone with 2 units and a switch box. I used no EQ.

Chain is Roon (dedicated MacBook server- I recognize this is suboptimal but as it’s what I’ve been using with the V6s I kept it the same for V7s) ->Sonore Optical Rendu-> Yggdrasil OG-> 3XGt 2023 with SpO2 power modules. Tracks are Fruhlingsgefuhle by Melokind, Magnetar by Mark Lettieri, Beldiya by Triplego, Drover by Bill Callahan, Twice by Ludovici Einaudi (Reimagined by Mercan Dede). Susvaras are with OG Stock pads and cables (XLR)

On V6 I hear both good quality (texture) and quantity in the bass, with good attack and just right decay. Bass does not bleed into mids. Mids are quite forward though lower mids a bit less than upper. Treble is good, snappy, not sibliant and well extended. Soundstage was outside the head and instrument separation still good but not pinpoint. Head stage is perceptible about 2-3’ outside the head wider than deep- sometimes there is an echo that extends further into the distance. Detail retrieval is good - on the Melokind track I can hear some details high up in the treble register. Dynamic swings are good but not impressive- little sense of ‘blackground’

With V7 installed, FR is quite similar, but timbre is better- more realistic. Stage size and image precision and separation are all bigger/ better. Stage depth improves with images more widely separated in it. Images are more pinpoint and clearly defined with respect to each other. bass is impactful well textured, but the decay structure is even more believable. There is more ‘blackground’. Dynamic swings are bigger, especially noticeable above 70 dB.

I have to say, HD6XX and Arya were MORE elevated than Sus in all these regards. On HD6XX with V7, dynamic drivers LIT UP the bass - I think the V7s maybe are particularly good for DD headphones, I could feel the drivers moving. On Arya I was also hearing a lot more subtle details high in the treble register and imaging improved a LOT- really across the FR but most noticeably up there.

I did not notice these differences as much with Sus- they are still there but Sus is already so good- it more narrowed the difference between them and the lower tier HPs

Conclusion: The V7s are a worthy upgrade for the 3XGT. They elevate mid-fi HPs VERY MUCH in terms of dynamics and especially staging. For Susvara the improvements are there but more subtle. You can only polish a diamond so much- at least with this tool. A more powerful one may be needed. V6s are already doing a very good job with it.

At the end of the trials I am left still feeling ‘there is more’ for the Susvaras- especially in terms of stage improvements- yet I wonder if I will not have to invest MUCH more to squeeze that out.

Question (tube-amp lovers pls hold back here, I know what you’d do with it 😉) : where would you go next with the 3XGT and Susvaras?
A) use 3XGT as a pre-amp out into a solid state speaker amp (with the risks and benefits that entails) and attach Sus to the speaker posts via spades or an adapter box vs
B) use the 3XGT “headphone + sub out” feature to add a sub- other Sus users have reported positive experiences ie @Pashmeister with the KC62
C) Or???
Thx for sharing your impressions. I m planning to take the gt to my holiday home. I live 3 months and a half there, and i cant do it with the a90. And go Envy in autumn. I will make my numbers this summer and maybe upgrade the same opamps as you but not sure.
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 10:39 AM Post #25,311 of 25,594
I believe Class A with feedback is what Zahl calls Servo Mode. In other words I think you are both talking about the same mode.
Yes. There's 2 modes

Class A
Class A + servo
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 1:08 PM Post #25,312 of 25,594
Thx for sharing your impressions. I m planning to take the gt to my holiday home. I live 3 months and a half there, and i cant do it with the a90. And go Envy in autumn. I will make my numbers this summer and maybe upgrade the same opamps as you but not sure.
I’m thinking again about Envy too. The other option im considering is to buy a Schiit Freya+ (I have some good NOS tube) and a set of Tyrs, and alteratively use the GT or Freya+ as pre-amps into the Tyrs, ie listen to Sus connected to the Tyrs from the speaker taps. I know at least 1 other user who has done it BUT the cost of doing all that is ~$5k USD, and the Envy Performance is $9k- also Envy would be more useful for all my other HPs. It’s a lot to spend on an amp, though- and then there’s the WAF.
 
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Apr 11, 2024 at 2:23 PM Post #25,313 of 25,594
I’m thinking again about Envy too. The other option im considering is to buy a Schiit Freya+ (I have some good NOS tube) and a set of Tyrs, and alteratively use the GT or Freya+ as pre-amps into the Tyrs, ie listen to Sus connected to the Tyrs from the speaker taps. I know at least 1 other user who has done it BUT the cost of doing all that is ~$5k USD, and the Envy Performance is $9k- also Envy would be more useful for all my other HPs. It’s a lot to spend on an amp, though- and then there’s the WAF.
I was going to buy last year a cayin preamp. After reading everything i found i didnt know if a tube pre, could work as well as a tube amp. One thing is for sure, preamps dont use 300b tubes. At last i opted for waiting.
 
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Apr 11, 2024 at 3:54 PM Post #25,314 of 25,594
I was going to buy last year a cayin preamp. After reading everything i found i didnt know if a tube pre, could work as well as a tube amp. One thing is for sure, preamps dont use 300b tubes. At last i opted for waiting.
Supratek makes a 300B pre-amp. As does Manley. Possibly some others out there as well. The Envy can be used as a pre-amp too and I believe the signal still goes through the 300B tubes (although I may be wrong on that).

If I didn’t already have a CFA3 to use the Supratek with I may have gone down the Envy route myself (total combined cost is about the same). Still, I’m very happy with the Supratek/CFA3 combo and I’ve got a lot more flexibility with inputs and outputs and gain control which I may put to use one day with a turntable or different power amp option.
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 9:55 PM Post #25,315 of 25,594
Apr 11, 2024 at 10:03 PM Post #25,316 of 25,594
Supratek makes a 300B pre-amp. As does Manley. Possibly some others out there as well. The Envy can be used as a pre-amp too and I believe the signal still goes through the 300B tubes (although I may be wrong on that).
The signal does go through both tube sets, as confirmed by Feliks.
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 4:46 AM Post #25,317 of 25,594
Maybe you should get an iMac 5k and compare for yourself before making statements about how it compares to mac mini and streaming devices. Ymmv and imho there is no point in adding something to the chain if i can’t tell any difference.
Thats the point. Good source will make you notice difference. I have had several macs/apple not the 5K, but other iMacs/Desktops. I have also tested the Mac mini + teradak solution…the last will beat any stock Apple computer. Im so sure about this.

You have to look at what your are hearing, listening to. When the listener gets the point, then source makes sense. Your are listening to your source. Don’t let another impulse buy trying to take the focus away.

Another amp or dac….they simply don’t matter in the first place. Source and Power, thats what is the most important and will forever be.
 
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Apr 12, 2024 at 5:42 AM Post #25,318 of 25,594
Thats the point. Good source will make you notice difference. I have had several macs/apple not the 5K, but other iMacs/Desktops. I have also tested the Mac mini + teradak solution…the last will beat any stock Apple computer. Im so sure about this.

You have to look at what your are hearing, listening to. When the listener gets the point, then source makes sense. Your are listening to your source. Don’t let another impulse buy trying to take the focus away.

Another amp or dac….they simply don’t matter in the first place. Source and Power, thats what is the most important and will forever be.
Yes. Transport and chain is very important. Exactly why ppl think a tt2 or dave cant drive a Susvara. With a good transport and cables, an mscaler + Dave will make a Susvara sing more than a 16w amp.
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 5:44 AM Post #25,319 of 25,594
Yes. Transport and chain is very important. Exactly why ppl think a tt2 or dave cant drive a Susvara. With a good transport and cables, an mscaler + Dave will make a Susvara sing more than a 16w amp.
What is good transport and cables?
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 6:01 AM Post #25,320 of 25,594
What is good transport and cables?
I use a cdt + ocxo + custom psu and a pro-ject rs2t. But despite using 3k-8k usd cd transports, I've preferred using a tp-link archer with zen stream with custom psu for both to play mqa to an mscaler + dave or tt2 using custom occ silver cables. Even with the original stock susvara cable, it gives a deep bassy presentation.

With that said, a good chain with a go Blu can even give a good deep bassy response on the Susvara as long as you play normally loud .
 
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