[Sand Dan Glokta]

Does any susvara/envy owner hear the standard and the full music versión? Big difference? In what way? Im interested mostly in soundstage. I have the chance to buy an envy with standard ha tubes.

 

[jlbrach]

you will need to upgrade the tubes to really hear what it is capable of,I have the standard version with upgraded tubes and it is mindblowing and I try not to get into superlatives

 

[BillinSF]

For your Sunday pleasure.

While I'm old and my music choices go back to the 70's and 80's, here's a band out of Moscow that is doing covers of Earth, Wind and Fire and Chicago (I can hear half the crowd thinking ..who?). Very expensive production (lots of violins, violas, cellos and horns), mixing and re-recording. While it's on YouTube and not the finest SQ, it's doggone entertaining.

Played on computer speakers (Bose) sucked - thin. Same with HD 800s. But with Sus..FATT sound baby. Just fills up the entire audio spectrum. Separation and clarity is unbelievable with all the punch one could want.

 

[coolhand]

For your Sunday pleasure.

While I'm old and my music choices go back to the 70's and 80's, here's a band out of Moscow that is doing covers of Earth, Wind and Fire and Chicago (I can hear half the crowd thinking ..who?). Very expensive production (lots of violins, violas, cellos and horns), mixing and re-recording. While it's on YouTube and not the finest SQ, it's doggone entertaining.

Played on computer speakers (Bose) sucked - thin. Same with HD 800s. But with Sus..FATT sound baby. Just fills up the entire audio spectrum. Separation and clarity is unbelievable with all the punch one could want.

Spasibo

 

[thefitz]

I've tested no less than nine ZMF pads over the last few weeks and thought I'd share my findings. I'll do my best to be concise and pseudo-rank these:

The Winners:

1. Susvara Lambskin Pads: Considering that these pads are in striking distance in price to the stock pads and aren't built to disintegrate, I'd call these winners on those grounds alone. Sound-wise, they're nearly identical to the stock pad but with slight but undeniable improvements to the low end and that HiFiMAN upper midrange dip. A little thicker on the bottom, a little less withdrawn in the upper midrange, pretty much identical to stock pads elsewhere. I think you'd be nuts to purchase a pair of stock pads over these ones, to be honest. What we have here is the stock pad tonality with +2db in the spots where the Susvara's frequency response is lacking, and no other additions or subtractions.
2. Auteur Solid Hybrid Pads: This was one of the pads that sent me on this whole journey, the other thing being how well the HE-6SE responded to Ori pads. I saw a frequency response graph of this pad that appeared to have "fixed" the tonality of the Susvara (whether you think it needs fixing is another story!), and I can confirm that this is exactly what this pad does. The low end response thickened appreciably, perhaps slowing as much as it thickened - all while remaining pleasant, realistic, and constrained to the appropriate frequency band. The upper midrange dip frankly filled in flawlessly, without a hint of honk. The upper treble had a slight suppression that places it strictly in line with the rest of the frequency response. I've never heard percussion sound as natural and realistic on a headphone as with these pads. Heck, these even fit the oval shape of the Susvara ear cups with regular HifiMAN rings. If there's a knock against these, it's that the detail of the Susvara doesn't quite jump out at you like it did with stock pads. I'll see if I can source some reliable replacement Susvara rings online - these are a great alternative to the stock pad. It actually makes me wonder how much of a headphone's tuning is the pad and the pad alone. If Zach just stuck Susvara rings on these as-is, he'd start a revolution.

The Losers:

1. Me, for making this list: This is so dorky! Can you believe it?
2. Universe Perforated Hybrid Pads: I only tried these because they came in an eBay lot I got my hands on. These pads shaved the bottom and top off the tone, resulting in this grey, honky, dare I say T50RP-like midrange. If you wanted to make the Susvara sound like pretty much every multi-BA IEM on the market, grab these!
3. Susvara Hybrid Pads: Maaaaaan did I have high hopes for these, based on those FR graphs. Has anyone clamoring for that "broken seal HiFiMAN bass response" actually heard it? Whatever driver resonance at 45Hz you gain is lost 10x over by the steep dive below it. I thought that these would be the most speaker-like of the bunch, but not so. Whatever quantity you gain at 45Hz bottoms out with no extension whatsoever, and I was quite surprised at how thin this sounded. These pads filled that HiFiMAN upper-mid trough the most of them all, but with the lack of bass extension made this sound surprisingly honky, slurring "sss" into "sshhh" at a shocking rate.

Caldera Pads:

I thought the Caldera pads would have been a slam-dunk on the Susvara - giant pads, all sorts of materials to try, and wide earhole openings. While the Caldera pads did bring their own flavor to the Susvara, I ultimately preferred the Susvara Lambskin and Auteur Solid Hybrid pads across the board.

Interestingly, the Caldera pads had their own "house tuning" consistent across all the disparate pad materials:

1. A well controlled and fast bass that increased in size along with pad depth
2. A fortified midrange
3. A similarly withdrawn upper midrange compared to the stock pads
4. A more consistent but crystal clear treble.

If you want to extract the most detail out of your Susvara and don't want to spend $4k on a cable (or $5.5k if you want it a little more flexible!), Caldera pads are for you, it's just a matter of choosing the one with the tonal balance you prefer. I don't know if the upper mids/ear gain portion of the FR is more withdrawn with the Caldera pads or the FR is simply more fortified above or below it, but none of the pads sounded as natural to me as the two winners above, even though they had their own distinct advantages.

In no particular order:

• Regular Lambskin: Possibly the most balanced of the set, or perhaps the least noteworthy of the bunch. Great imaging, a fast large bass, characteristically hollow upper mids, slightly honky midrange, and a detailed treble with a hint of splash.
• Thick Lambskin: The largest bass of them all, with an upper midrange no more hollow than the other pads. Possibly the best balance in the upper treble, with great imagine. However, they're so large that the midrange took on a bit of a "tunnel effect" which gave voices an unnatural timbre, and perhaps called more attention to the upper midrange dip.
• Ultra Perf: Absolutely god-tier treble response. Crystal clear, even throughout, no splash in any particular spot. Bass response was very similar to stock, perhaps a hair faster. Midrange brought in line with the upper midrange dip, for better or worse. I found the treble response to be just too high overall, as clear, detailed, and even as it was. Perhaps if I put a high shelf in via EQ this would have been unstoppable, but I wasn't interested in that.
• Thin Cowhide: I had high hopes for these as well, as the Cowhide Ori pads were the best pads for the HE-6SEv1 by a country mile. These pads evened the treble similar to the Ultra Perf and perhaps brought it down to the level I wish it was on that pad. Bass is fast as can get, perhaps pleasantly drier than stock. The midrange was heavily fortified here which brought the most attention to it - perhaps this is the most even pad of the bunch, however the midrange emphasis is not my preferred sound profile. The cowhide material and shallowness of the pad also brought the soundstage in, however it seemed to make everything taller.
• Suede: I was very close to calling this the outright winner and being done with it. Giant, hard hitting bass, a full midrange, probably the best treble control overall, and fantastic imaging. I think this pad also made the upper midrange dip a fair bit narrower, but with that came with a hardness in the upper midrange that I did not prefer. To me, this was most similar to my beloved Auteur pad, with more clarity overall, but a hardness in the midrange that the Auteur seemed to handle like no other. If you find the Auteur pad a bit "hazy" and want something more aggressive, you will absolutely love this pad.

So there you have it. I think the Auteur Solid Hybrid and Susvara Lambskin pads are downright requisite purchases! I am sure that some listeners will find something worth pursuing in the Caldera pads as well.

 

[chrisnyc75]

I've tested no less than nine ZMF pads over the last few weeks and thought I'd share my findings. I'll do my best to be concise and pseudo-rank these:

The Winners:

1. Susvara Lambskin Pads: Considering that these pads are in striking distance in price to the stock pads and aren't built to disintegrate, I'd call these winners on those grounds alone. Sound-wise, they're nearly identical to the stock pad but with slight but undeniable improvements to the low end and that HiFiMAN upper midrange dip. A little thicker on the bottom, a little less withdrawn in the upper midrange, pretty much identical to stock pads elsewhere. I think you'd be nuts to purchase a pair of stock pads over these ones, to be honest. What we have here is the stock pad tonality with +2db in the spots where the Susvara's frequency response is lacking, and no other additions or subtractions.
2. Auteur Solid Hybrid Pads: This was one of the pads that sent me on this whole journey, the other thing being how well the HE-6SE responded to Ori pads. I saw a frequency response graph of this pad that appeared to have "fixed" the tonality of the Susvara (whether you think it needs fixing is another story!), and I can confirm that this is exactly what this pad does. The low end response thickened appreciably, perhaps slowing as much as it thickened - all while remaining pleasant, realistic, and constrained to the appropriate frequency band. The upper midrange dip frankly filled in flawlessly, without a hint of honk. The upper treble had a slight suppression that places it strictly in line with the rest of the frequency response. I've never heard percussion sound as natural and realistic on a headphone as with these pads. Heck, these even fit the oval shape of the Susvara ear cups with regular HifiMAN rings. If there's a knock against these, it's that the detail of the Susvara doesn't quite jump out at you like it did with stock pads. I'll see if I can source some reliable replacement Susvara rings online - these are a great alternative to the stock pad. It actually makes me wonder how much of a headphone's tuning is the pad and the pad alone. If Zach just stuck Susvara rings on these as-is, he'd start a revolution.

The Losers:

1. Me, for making this list: This is so dorky! Can you believe it?
2. Universe Perforated Hybrid Pads: I only tried these because they came in an eBay lot I got my hands on. These pads shaved the bottom and top off the tone, resulting in this grey, honky, dare I say T50RP-like midrange. If you wanted to make the Susvara sound like pretty much every multi-BA IEM on the market, grab these!
3. Susvara Hybrid Pads: Maaaaaan did I have high hopes for these, based on those FR graphs. Has anyone clamoring for that "broken seal HiFiMAN bass response" actually heard it? Whatever driver resonance at 45Hz you gain is lost 10x over by the steep dive below it. I thought that these would be the most speaker-like of the bunch, but not so. Whatever quantity you gain at 45Hz bottoms out with no extension whatsoever, and I was quite surprised at how thin this sounded. These pads filled that HiFiMAN upper-mid trough the most of them all, but with the lack of bass extension made this sound surprisingly honky, slurring "sss" into "sshhh" at a shocking rate.

Caldera Pads:

I thought the Caldera pads would have been a slam-dunk on the Susvara - giant pads, all sorts of materials to try, and wide earhole openings. While the Caldera pads did bring their own flavor to the Susvara, I ultimately preferred the Susvara Lambskin and Auteur Solid Hybrid pads across the board.

Interestingly, the Caldera pads had their own "house tuning" consistent across all the disparate pad materials:

1. A well controlled and fast bass that increased in size along with pad depth
2. A fortified midrange
3. A similarly withdrawn upper midrange compared to the stock pads
4. A more consistent but crystal clear treble.

If you want to extract the most detail out of your Susvara and don't want to spend $4k on a cable (or $5.5k if you want it a little more flexible!), Caldera pads are for you, it's just a matter of choosing the one with the tonal balance you prefer. I don't know if the upper mids/ear gain portion of the FR is more withdrawn with the Caldera pads or the FR is simply more fortified above or below it, but none of the pads sounded as natural to me as the two winners above, even though they had their own distinct advantages.

In no particular order:

• Regular Lambskin: Possibly the most balanced of the set, or perhaps the least noteworthy of the bunch. Great imaging, a fast large bass, characteristically hollow upper mids, slightly honky midrange, and a detailed treble with a hint of splash.
• Thick Lambskin: The largest bass of them all, with an upper midrange no more hollow than the other pads. Possibly the best balance in the upper treble, with great imagine. However, they're so large that the midrange took on a bit of a "tunnel effect" which gave voices an unnatural timbre, and perhaps called more attention to the upper midrange dip.
• Ultra Perf: Absolutely god-tier treble response. Crystal clear, even throughout, no splash in any particular spot. Bass response was very similar to stock, perhaps a hair faster. Midrange brought in line with the upper midrange dip, for better or worse. I found the treble response to be just too high overall, as clear, detailed, and even as it was. Perhaps if I put a high shelf in via EQ this would have been unstoppable, but I wasn't interested in that.
• Thin Cowhide: I had high hopes for these as well, as the Cowhide Ori pads were the best pads for the HE-6SEv1 by a country mile. These pads evened the treble similar to the Ultra Perf and perhaps brought it down to the level I wish it was on that pad. Bass is fast as can get, perhaps pleasantly drier than stock. The midrange was heavily fortified here which brought the most attention to it - perhaps this is the most even pad of the bunch, however the midrange emphasis is not my preferred sound profile. The cowhide material and shallowness of the pad also brought the soundstage in, however it seemed to make everything taller.
• Suede: I was very close to calling this the outright winner and being done with it. Giant, hard hitting bass, a full midrange, probably the best treble control overall, and fantastic imaging. I think this pad also made the upper midrange dip a fair bit narrower, but with that came with a hardness in the upper midrange that I did not prefer. To me, this was most similar to my beloved Auteur pad, with more clarity overall, but a hardness in the midrange that the Auteur seemed to handle like no other. If you find the Auteur pad a bit "hazy" and want something more aggressive, you will absolutely love this pad.

So there you have it. I think the Auteur Solid Hybrid and Susvara Lambskin pads are downright requisite purchases! I am sure that some listeners will find something worth pursuing in the Caldera pads as well.

Really intersting info, especially since I happen to have 10 or so ZMF pads on hand already. But how did you get ZMF pads (other than the ZMF Susvara pads, obviously) to attach to Susvara?

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

you will need to upgrade the tubes to really hear what it is capable of,I have the standard version with upgraded tubes and it is mindblowing and I try not to get into superlatives

Thx for reply

 

[thefitz]

Really intersting info, especially since I happen to have 10 or so ZMF pads on hand already. But how did you get ZMF pads (other than the ZMF Susvara pads, obviously) to attach to Susvara?

The regular, old fashioned, easy to find HiFiMAN ring! The tabs are the in the exact same spots and are the same size, and are more than wide enough for any pad. The only difference between the Susvara ring and original HiFiMAN ring is that silly "earlobe" part.

 

[chrisnyc75]

The regular, old fashioned, easy to find HiFiMAN ring! The tabs are the in the exact same spots and are the same size, and are more than wide enough for any pad. The only difference between the Susvara ring and original HiFiMAN ring is that silly "earlobe" part.

Thanks, I'll give this a shot! Susvara noob here. lol

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Which tubes are better for an enlarged soundstage? For less than 1000$ the pair.

 

[jonchard]

Which tubes are better for an enlarged soundstage? For less than 1000$ the pair.

Anything below the WE 300b is silly really if you are spending that kind of money. Lots of people love the WE's. I have not owned them yet, im an Elrog user and feel no need to stray. But Elrog are above your budget. I wouldnt bother with any below this price. Its worth saving a littl emore towards imo.

 

[Melineous]

Susvara Hybrid Pads: Maaaaaan did I have high hopes for these, based on those FR graphs. Has anyone clamoring for that "broken seal HiFiMAN bass response" actually heard it? Whatever driver resonance at 45Hz you gain is lost 10x over by the steep dive below it. I thought that these would be the most speaker-like of the bunch, but not so. Whatever quantity you gain at 45Hz bottoms out with no extension whatsoever, and I was quite surprised at how thin this sounded. These pads filled that HiFiMAN upper-mid trough the most of them all, but with the lack of bass extension made this sound surprisingly honky, slurring "sss" into "sshhh" at a shocking rate.

I'll admit I was also hoping for the broken seal sound, but I'm not getting it either. It probably measured that way because (at least on my pads) the rings are extremely tight and hard to get all the clips in without one popping out. My thoughts are that the hybrids have the sweeter vocals of the stock pad without the slight unevenness I hear in the treble. If the lambskin have the same mid/treble balance without losing the sub bass extension then I could see them being the better pad, but compared to stock I don't think the hybrids are terrible either.

 

[jlbrach]

Anything below the WE 300b is silly really if you are spending that kind of money. Lots of people lots the WE's. I have not owned them yet, im an Elrog user and feel no need to stray. But Elrog are above your budget. I wouldnt bother with any below this price. Its worth saving a littl emore towards imo.

the elrog and WE are both fantastic...the WE is warmer...has a bigger soundstage and vocals are a bit more forward..the Elrog is tighter bass,perhaps a bit more detailed and more SS like...I wish I could go back and forth between them like I change HP's but I dont want to ruin the amp or tubes so I will do so every so often..I think the Elrog might be better for the susvara and perhaps the WE for the 1266 but that is just me...love them both

 

[thefitz]

I'll admit I was also hoping for the broken seal sound, but I'm not getting it either. It probably measured that way because (at least on my pads) the rings are extremely tight and hard to get all the clips in without one popping out. My thoughts are that the hybrids have the sweeter vocals of the stock pad without the slight unevenness I hear in the treble. If the lambskin have the same mid/treble balance without losing the sub bass extension then I could see them being the better pad, but compared to stock I don't think the hybrids are terrible either.

Maybe someday soon I will give them another listen. The missing lowest octave was immediately apparent. Perhaps this in a large part is due to my expectations after seeing the measurement graphs first, ASR style lol

 

[Melineous]

Maybe someday soon I will give them another listen. The missing lowest octave was immediately apparent. Perhaps this in a large part is due to my expectations after seeing the measurement graphs first, ASR style lol

No, I agree, it's noticed immediately. I also think the soundstage is shrunk a little bit on the hybrid pads. Kind of turns the Susvara into a super he400i in a way lol. You've just made me wonder if I should grab some of the lambskin pads tho