[BassicScience]

Sorry, but I whole-heartedly disagree. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but this isn't even arguable. Roon has so many bloated processes running in the background (i.e. real-time library scans, meta data updates, etc.), the extra processes and CPU load absolutely murders SQ. That's why Taiko's implementation is so ground breaking for Roon.

There is a reason why so many server vendors, even commercial ones, go with the absolute smallest CPU that consumes the least electricity with the most energy efficient RAM, along with fully custom motherboard BIOS. In a server, free roaming electricity, extra CPU cycles, and subsequent unneeded processes are the mortal enemy of sound quality. This is not new information.

I just logged into my Windows machine running Roon core and called up Task Manager. CPU usage is running between 5-10%. "Extra processes and CPU load" has NOTHING to do with sound quality, as long as audio data is getting to your DAC before it is needed, and this is a trivial task unless you're running an obsolete machine from the last century. Investing money in an "audiophile" music server is analogous to buying a pimped out Rolls Royce for delivering newspapers. You may feel pride of ownership, but it won't do the job any more efficiently than any other car.

 

[OCC7N]

.

 

[normie610]

Sorry, but I whole-heartedly disagree. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but this isn't even arguable.

+1

When I compare Roon to Lumin’s native app (since I use Lumin T2), the sound from Roon appears to be thinner with less dynamics which gives the illusion of a “wider” soundstage but not so much depth. On the contrary, the sound from Lumin app appears to be fuller, denser, weightier with incredible depth & height and very lifelike timbre. I’m using Roon only to use the EQ/plugin for my SR1a, CA1a and CRBN. As for the 1266 TC, I’m still using Lumin app.

Edit: when using Lumin app, the music is fed by Lumin L1 which is Lumin’s mini server. Whereas with Roon I’m using iMac M1 with external SSD as the file source/library.

 

[littlej0e]

I just logged into my Windows machine running Roon core and called up Task Manager. CPU usage is running between 5-10%. "Extra processes and CPU load" has NOTHING to do with sound quality, as long as audio data is getting to your DAC before it is needed, and this is a trivial task unless you're running an obsolete machine from the last century. Investing money in an "audiophile" music server is analogous to buying a pimped out Rolls Royce for delivering newspapers. You may feel pride of ownership, but it won't do the job any more efficiently than any other car.

There are many reasons why people don't use an iPhone or Raspberry PI for a streamer, even though both will still provide bit perfect playback. If CPU load and processes have nothing to do with SQ, then I wonder why literally every high-end streamer manufacturer in the world go to such lengths to avoid both.

Not going to argue with you. It has nothing to do with pride or e-peen. The results, which were clearly audible, verifiable, and repeatable...speak for themselves. Listen and let your ears decide. I guarantee you'll be blown away. The more scientifically relevant question is "why" and that's what no one can seem to answer.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Also, it isn't that Roon just sounds like crap and that's the end of it. It only sounds like crap compared to most high-end custom-tailored manufacturer software. Hence why I recommend people in mid-fi/hi-if territory shouldn't even think about it.

Things other than SQ are probably better outside of Roon, but the user experience is just so much better with Roon. I'm hoping my K50, where it separates out the player and the server on 2 different cpus helps though. I tried Squeeze, but that sh!t is just not user friendly at all. I have like 14tb of local music, and I need a good UI. I'll sacrifice some sound quality for ease of use. I'm interested in the Taiko Extreme and Pink Faun, but I'm kinda skeptical that they will be that big of an improvement over my K50, but I don't know. Yes, auditioning them would be best, but that's not possible where I live unfortunately.

 

[littlej0e]

Things other than SQ are probably better outside of Roon, but the user experience is just so much better with Roon. I'm hoping my K50, where it separates out the player and the server on 2 different cpus helps though. I tried Squeeze, but that sh!t is just not user friendly at all. I have like 14tb of local music, and I need a good UI. I'll sacrifice some sound quality for ease of use.

I couldn't agree more. Best UI and features by FAR. This is the real trade-off ditching Roon.

I'm interested in the Taiko Extreme and Pink Faun, but I'm kinda skeptical that they will be that big of an improvement over my K50, but I don't know. Yes, auditioning them would be best, but that's not possible where I live unfortunately.

Indeed. "Better" doesn't always necessarily mean "best."

I can likely tell you whatever you'd like to know about both. But the fact remains they are bespoke solutions (i.e. built with commercial off-the-shelf components like MSI/Asus motherboards, Samsung NVME/SSDs, etc.) from very small companies based in the Netherlands. Given a long enough timeline, you will likely be on the hook for supporting it yourself. All the SQ in the world isn't worth that frustration and wasted money if you aren't a very technically capable person.

Also, either server will end up costing around 25k. Yeah...

I'm guessing 60-70% of most, but not all, bespoke server cost is R&D (and because they probably think they can get away with it). After performing all the no-brainer stuff like disabling unused ports, processes, protocols, circuits, hardware, etc., they basically take "educated guesses" at what might improve SQ and test theories over and over again. It's an absolutely painful and painstaking process testing and gathering all of these little SQ nuggets, let alone developing custom solutions to leverage them. In other words, all of these "SQ improvements and lessons learned" from from trial and error equate to a bespoke server builder's "secret sauce."

For reference, I've attempted to build five of my own audio streamers, in various sizes with various components, and I can't even touch the SQ from my Pareto server. This tells me three things for certain:

1. I absolutely suck at building high performance audio streamers (I even tried cannibalizing most of the components from the Pareto)
2. I lack the time, patience and inclination to chase down all the little tweaks that could result in better SQ.
3. After basic common sense measures are implemented, I firmly believe the lions share of SQ improvements come from software, firmware, driver, and electrical optimization. BIOS tweaks in particular appear to be the most important and seem to yield the greatest bump in SQ. But they are simply beyond my skill level to decipher and would require too much time to learn.

 

[Ragnar-BY]

Roon is simply transferring bits unaltered from the source file/stream to a buffer in your DAC, and as such, sounds exactly as good as any other front end performing the same operation.

I don’t know what exactly is happening inside the software/hardware, but I clearly heard the difference between Roon and LMS playing to the very same endpoint (no DSP involved).

I’ve choosen Roon only because of UI. Which is absolute best. I wouldn’t say that soundwise it’s “shoveling crap” either. LMS sounds a little bit better, but for me the difference wasn’t big enough to tolerate LMS interface.

 

[HC1205]

have anyone tried pairing with ican sig with hypsos? how does it compare with oor+hypsos?

 

[xtiva]

I’ve choosen Roon only because of UI. Which is absolute best. I wouldn’t say that soundwise it’s “shoveling crap” either. LMS sounds a little bit better, but for me the difference wasn’t big enough to tolerate LMS interface.

Yap same here... have been playing with a few RPi based streaming OS and found Moode to sound slightly better than Roon but it is the UI and feature that no other streaming OS can do better than Roon..

Library management is far better than any other streaming OS IMHO I only have about 30K FLAC files and Roon makes it so much easier to find the right music for you... (yes it had issues 6 months ago but with the updates, the issue with search has been resolved.)

 

[BassicScience]

I don’t know what exactly is happening inside the software/hardware, but I clearly heard the difference between Roon and LMS playing to the very same endpoint (no DSP involved).

I’ve choosen Roon only because of UI. Which is absolute best. I wouldn’t say that soundwise it’s “shoveling crap” either. LMS sounds a little bit better, but for me the difference wasn’t big enough to tolerate LMS interface.

OK, I'm not going to continue to argue this here because it's completely OT and there are potentially variables between servers/software that aren't being reported. However, somebody posted above:

Roon's default sound quality is complete and total @$$

which is complete, unadulterated nonsense, and potentially libelous, and I'm tired of people trashing excellent products without any justification.

End of discussion, by me anyway.

 

[littlej0e]

OK, I'm not going to continue to argue this here because it's completely OT and there are potentially variables between servers/software that aren't being reported. However, somebody posted above:

Roon's default sound quality is complete and total @$$

which is complete, unadulterated nonsense, and potentially libelous, and I'm tired of people trashing excellent products without any justification.

End of discussion, by me anyway.

But...I provided both justification and context for this statement. I'll go back and edit it to be less harsh and more considerate of your (and others') feelings.

 

[BassicScience]

But...I provided both justification and context for this statement. I'll go back and edit it to be less harsh and more considerate of your feelings.

My feelings don't really have anything to do with it. You are spreading misinformation! Roon (by default) is simply taking audio data from a local/remote source and sending it to a DAC, typically over a USB or network interface. If that sounds bad in your system, it isn't the fault of Roon.

 

[jlbrach]

OK, I'm not going to continue to argue this here because it's completely OT and there are potentially variables between servers/software that aren't being reported. However, somebody posted above:

Roon's default sound quality is complete and total @$$

which is complete, unadulterated nonsense, and potentially libelous, and I'm tired of people trashing excellent products without any justification.

End of discussion, by me anyway.

spot on

 

[littlej0e]

My feelings don't really have anything to do with it. You are spreading misinformation! Roon (by default) is simply taking audio data from a local/remote source and sending it to a DAC, typically over a USB or network interface. If that sounds bad in your system, it isn't the fault of Roon.

I changed my statement to sound less abrasive and hopefully more clear.

I understand that you disagree and I'm sorry for triggering you by bashing a product that you enjoy (so do I). My intention is/was to provide factual information to the best of my knowledge while offering first-hand insight to help people make informed decisions and hopefully enhance others' enjoyment of a hobby we all love.

I'm not sure why you are still so vehemently arguing against something that has been common knowledge in the industry for years. Regardless, please do not accuse me of misinformation. You are certainly entitled to your own beliefs and opinions, but not your own facts. Get a decent server and try it for yourself. You'll be amazed, I promise.

spot on

Not really. This statement is taken completely out of context. Sorry for bashing something you like. I didn't mean to loudly profess that Santa Clause isn't real or kick anyone's pony. Was just trying to help.

 

[OCC7N]

Every software has its own sound, even windows sounds different than windows server.

If ROON is a software installed onto windows, it will sound different on different systems(mb, ram, chipset etc)

I removed my streamer/server/foobar(asus itx, jcat usb xe, no gpu) from my chain and played my music directly from usb on a much smaller footprint(synology ds118)

Im glad I did! The difference is night and day! same dac/ddc/amp.

Im even thinking of doing a raspberry pi4 CM project, to see if I can get jcat usb xe working there instead of a windows pc.