[336881]

There are multiple reasons for not using speaker amps:

1) You need a very good preamp for a power amp, which dont come cheap
2) Most headphones dont need that kind of power to drive headphones
3) Many speaker amps are not quiet enough like headphone amps, and they have hiss etc
4) You risk blowing up the drivers with a speaker amp if you are not careful with the volume control - Happens often with HE-6 but with them its a cheap fix - You can add resistors but that deteriorates the quality reasonably.
5) You need much longer cables and speaker taps etc since you cant keep a power amp on your desk and good quality long cables are expensive which add to the cost

However, I would definitely take a First Watt J2+ a preamp to drive the HE-6/Susvara rather than any headphone amp. However, headphone amps like the Taurus which can be easily had under a grand can drive the Susvara/HE-6 reasonably well.

Good points but when your you are talking $7k that is an awfully large budget for both a pre and power amp. I would actually put a bit more $$$ into the pre but that is just me.

 

[Jozurr]

Good points but when your you are talking $7k that is an awfully large budget for both a pre and power amp. I would actually put a bit more $$$ into the pre but that is just me.

I agree. I wouldn't spend $7K on a headphone amp just for power alone. At that mark, better value can be had with a power amp+pre.

 

[up late]

Because a cheap speaker amp may not sound good?

Just trying to rephrase what @Currawong said above with fewer words Might have misinterpreted him though.

Oftentimes you get what you pay for. A cheap speaker amp may provide all the power you need to drive the Susvara, but the sound quality may not compare to what you get if you're willing to pay more for a good but expensive speaker amps. So then you have the same issue: do I pay for an expensive headphones amp or an expensive speaker amp?

has this been your experience?

This may be true. I can't tell you whether it is for sure though. I've only heard the Susvara through the Woo Audio WA33 ($8K) and the HiFiMan amp and all I can say is that the $15K amp sounds better. Whether anyone wants to buy it, well ...

were you aware of the price difference before you compared them?

There are multiple reasons for not using speaker amps:

1) You need a very good preamp for a power amp, which dont come cheap
2) Most headphones dont need that kind of power to drive headphones
3) Many speaker amps are not quiet enough like headphone amps, and they have hiss etc
4) You risk blowing up the drivers with a speaker amp if you are not careful with the volume control - Happens often with HE-6 but with them its a cheap fix - You can add resistors but that deteriorates the quality reasonably.
5) You need much longer cables and speaker taps etc since you cant keep a power amp on your desk and good quality long cables are expensive which add to the cost

However, I would definitely take a First Watt J2+ a preamp to drive the HE-6/Susvara rather than any headphone amp. However, headphone amps like the Taurus which can be easily had under a grand can drive the Susvara/HE-6 reasonably well.

there are also integrated amps available which aren't expensive. i think that schiit has debunked the audiophile myth that price equates with performance. and we're not talking about most headphones which can be driven perfectly well by headphone amps, but particular planar magnetic models that are notoriously difficult to drive, such as the he-6 and possibly the susvara. audible noise is not a problem that is unique to loudspeaker amps, and resistors are used in headphone amps too. headphones that are not designed for portable use usually come equipped with long cables anyway - much longer than i need for my desktop listening.

 

[dill3000]

Wasn't joking. I thought the Raggy should be able to drive the Susvara but was not sure while writing the post (didn't remember the specs or the fact that the Raggy was also a speakers amp at all).

To tell the truth in my opinion the Raggy can drive the Susvara somewhat but not fully!! - I recently tested them at the Indulgence Show in London. You really do have to crank the volume up. I've also tested the HE6 multiple times with the Raggy and it's the same results. To achieve the Wow factor and drive the Susvara to the full potential you do need a high quality, low wattage speaker amp or an amp designed for driving the Susvara like the EF1000. If you read the HE6 threads there are lots of discussions on amps to drive the HE6 and to truly get the best from them you do need a quality speaker amp or a crazy powerful custom headphone amp. I’ve not heard a headphone amp which can drive the HE6s like a good preferably low wattage speaker amp. I say low wattage like 50W into 8ohms or lower. Ideally, you want to connect without the need of the HE Adaptor as it alters the sonics somewhat and with the Susvara connected to more powerful amps I would be safe and use the HE Adaptor unless you're very careful. The Susvara is just like to HE6 in its need for power. If you’ve heard the Susvara sound great from good headphone amps remember you still have a way to go with getting the best from these Cans.

 

[ubs28]

I disagree. Even portable DAC’s like the Hugo 2 got the Susvara to very good listening levels.

So unless your goal is to blow up your ears, you really do not need speaker amplifiers.

 

[protoss]

I disagree. Even portable DAC’s like the Hugo 2 got the Susvara to very good listening levels.

So unless your goal is to blow up your ears, you really do not need speaker amplifiers.

Yes 100% correct. Just listen to the Susvara again for the 10th time. All this speaker amps nonsense is all nonsense.

I listen to this on vintage amps to mid-tier and high-end amps and all sounded about right! Heck I even plugged it into my galaxy phone and it sounded decent on max volume.

The schiit Jotunhiem at $500 will blow the Susvara out of the water at volume levels.

 

[dill3000]

Unless you've heard the Susvara on the type of amp I'm speaking about you can't really say you disagree. The headphones need a good amount of current which the more powerful amps have in abundance. Yes the Hugo 2 and the Dave might get them to loud listening levels but it doesn't mean its driving them the way the headphones were designed. It will be giving them high voltage but not the current it takes to get the diaphragm moving the way it should. All you need to do is look at the specs of the EF1000 - I heard this amp was design just to drive the Susvara, then HIFIMAN discovered the amp has the power to drive speakers also. If you look at this vid - Fang Bian, of HiFiMan explains about the amp requirements of the HE6


The HE6 and the Susvara amp requirements are the same.


I’m sure if the Hugo 2 and the Dave were hooked up to speakers they could probably drive speakers to quite loud levels but it doesn’t mean the speakers would sound the way they should be compared to when they are driven correctly.

 

[mulder01]

To tell the truth in my opinion the Raggy can drive the Susvara somewhat but not fully!! - I recently tested them at the Indulgence Show in London. You really do have to crank the volume up. I've also tested the HE6 multiple times with the Raggy and it's the same results. To achieve the Wow factor and drive the Susvara to the full potential you do need a high quality, low wattage speaker amp or an amp designed for driving the Susvara like the EF1000. If you read the HE6 threads there are lots of discussions on amps to drive the HE6 and to truly get the best from them you do need a quality speaker amp or a crazy powerful custom headphone amp. I’ve not heard a headphone amp which can drive the HE6s like a good preferably low wattage speaker amp. I say low wattage like 50W into 8ohms or lower. Ideally, you want to connect without the need of the HE Adaptor as it alters the sonics somewhat and with the Susvara connected to more powerful amps I would be safe and use the HE Adaptor unless you're very careful. The Susvara is just like to HE6 in its need for power. If you’ve heard the Susvara sound great from good headphone amps remember you still have a way to go with getting the best from these Cans.

Wait, so you need lots of power, but not the Raggy because it's not powerful enough (60w into 8 ohms), so you need a low powered speaker amp, under 50w, to drive them properly. wot m8?

With the video, keep in mind, Fang is also trying to sell you his $13k amp, so his opinion may be a tad biased.

On a side note, he looks drunk in the preview for that video. "Maannnn, we got like...SO CLOSE to nanometer grade man... I got it, I got it, we'll just say ALMOST nanometer grade and that'll do. I'm goin' to sleep"

 

[jlbrach]

i used to own the Rag,I sold it but certainly not because it lacked power...in fact it was a beast and if the Rag cant drive the susvara properly then very little out there can.....I sold the Rag for a Moon 430 which is also a beast and I assume it could drive the susvara

 

[MacedonianHero]

i used to own the Rag,I sold it but certainly not because it lacked power...in fact it was a beast and if the Rag cant drive the susvara properly then very little out there can.....I sold the Rag for a Moon 430 which is also a beast and I assume it could drive the susvara

The Rag was plenty amp for the HE-6s!

 

[ubs28]

Given the following parameters:
sensitivity = 83 db/mW
impedence = 60 ohms
output level = 100 db

then what follows is:
mW required : 51 mW
voltage required : 1.75 volts
current required : 29.2 milliamps.

The Chord Mojo handles 1.75 volts no problem at ear damaging 100 db. Even a Macbook Pro can deliver that.

So the Susvara does not require many volts unless you are looking at killing your own ears.

 

[czy6412]

lol the majority of people talking here are not willing to get a Susvara.

 

[oneguy]

lol the majority of people talking here are not willing to get a Susvara.

I think it’s nice to get informed opinions from both sides though. I’d be willing to get one if I liked the sound over what I currently have. Just didn’t jive for me.

 

[czy6412]

I disagree. Even portable DAC’s like the Hugo 2 got the Susvara to very good listening levels.

So unless your goal is to blow up your ears, you really do not need speaker amplifiers.

Why don't you just get a magni 3 and throw away Hugo 2 as it has more than 3 times more power and it is 95% cheaper

 

[Thaudiophile]

lol the majority of people talking here are not willing to get a Susvara.

I am willing to get susvara if it gets a positive reception from innerfidelity