Both have a fully discrete output stage (8 output devices per channel, the same amount as the GS-X Mini, half that of a balanced Dynahi), although there are also opamps in the signal path according to the product description itself and they can be seen. So I'm not entirely sure what amplification stage they're used in.
HiFiMan Susvara
Both have a fully discrete output stage (8 output devices per channel, the same amount as the GS-X Mini, half that of a balanced Dynahi), although there are also opamps in the signal path according to the product description itself and they can be seen. So I'm not entirely sure what amplification stage they're used in.
tonyo442
100+ Head-Fier
Hello,
I allow myself to intervene on the comparison, Moon 430 HAD headphone amplifier, with a basic card dac ie a small troubleshooting card, I own the 430 HA with T + A dac8 LCD4 Audeze headphones and Focal elear and cable symmetrical headphones, all connected in asymmetrical (RCA) between dac and headphone amp, as I also own the ifi pro ican,
what makes me react is to try expensive expensive helmets, and not to invest in a dac that could be better than integrated dacs, most dacs today have 4 converters per channel, and this is not the case of the dacs cards which integrate these amps helmets, which will make the difference,
as to think that a purpleric 281, has the same quality of components or even quality of supply that a 430 HA, especially by using the 281 in symmetrical which makes that the components are doubled, thus losses of information and of micros information, me too at one time I thought that the symmetry brought a plus, of course we recover a little more power, but at the expense of transparency, micro information that disappear,
what is likely to happen is that maybe a good dac will show or reveal defects, and it will be said that the last connected device is not suitable, and is not good, after, of course that each of we hear the music in a different way, and especially that suits us, .......
"I'd call it a fairly even match with many headphones, but when you get into more difficult loads the Niimbus takes the lead. Susvara and Abyss don't quite hit their full stride with the Pass Labs HBA - they are very, very good, and I would certainly be happy with either.... until I switch to the Niimbus and discover both headphones have even more performance to be unleashed. In comparison the Pass is dynamically flatter and more "gray" sounding, as well as less tonally rich through the midrange. The same thing generally applies to the LCD-4 and HE1000, and even the Ether C to a smaller degree. All sound great with the HPA-1, yet all show improvement with the Niimbus"
"using the Pass Labs amp means "settling" a bit, rather than hearing the full potential of the source device."
"I'd start by saying the US4+ has bass performance both calmer and richer than the V281."
"If I'm wearing my metaphorical audio reviewer hat, the Niimbus is probably my number one pick overall."
"But for those chasing the "ultimate" experience, Niimbus Audio offers a worthy contender with a unique skill set."
These are coming from someone that has compared various expensive amps to the Niimbus. He didnt get to try the TT2 side by side.
From what I gather, if we were to consider the P1 the mistress, the only 3 contenders for possible end game are TT2, Niimbus, and DNA Stellaris. With the Stellaris possibly reigning supreme overall. The TT2 and Niimbus reminding me of Wilder v Fury on Dec 1st.
gordec
Headphoneus Supremus
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- Aug 14, 2006
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I'm probably going to end up with P1. I have been listening to it for 2 weeks now.. It's really that good. It almost feels like this is the way Susvara should sound, and at $1500 MSRP, it's a steal in today's pricing standards.
alphanumerix1
1000+ Head-Fier
p1 vs master 9 would be a good comparison both of them being the same price.
Niimbus is also class AB I'm guessing since they don't specify. In the sub $2,000 range the HeadAmp GS-X Mini would be an easy choice for me (don't recognize the PSU but I'm sure Justin will provide performance metrics if you ask, the non-HeadAmp version I owned had a PSU that had under 1 uV of noise), and beyond that the GS-X Mk2 if I had a balanced DAC. Though my #1 choice would be a Super Symmetry Dynahi but you'd have to ask someone to build it for you. More power than even the Audio-GD flagships and Schiit Ragnarok I believe, but pure class A. These days I see them built with dual GRHV PSUs. Definitely worth inquiring.
jscmd2000
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2017
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I knew about the GS-X Mk2 but not the Mini. Thanks! Price wise, there isn't a huge difference, I see.
I do have to turn the volume up on the HPA-1 to 3-5 o'clock position if I want a little loud. Does XA25 or .8 make a huge jump up? They are speaker amps... are they safe to drive headphones? I usually like to keep all my hair and eyebrows... Which would you go with if all three were within your budget?
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JimL11
1000+ Head-Fier
Actually I believe builders are using the GRLV (Golden Reference Low Voltage ) PSU as the GRHV (high voltage) puts out +/-350-450V and is only used for the electrostatic headphone amps.
ufospls2
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
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- 2,497
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- 4,153
Hey Guys,
I’m back on the Susvara train, and having owned the HE6se for a bit I thought I would write up a bit of a comparison. The Susvara (originally Edition 6) is sort of a successor to the original HE6 I suppose, so its natural to compare them. Both the Susvara and HE6se are too expensive at their MSRP, but the Susvara has come down in price a lot if you look around, and is doable on the used market for under $4000USD. The HE6se can be had for about $1300USD on the used market as well, which I think is a pretty good price for the sound quality you get. Is it fair to compare a $6000USD headphone to a $1800USD headphone? Perhaps not, but I think with their similarities and heritage, its worth looking at.
The set up used for listening is an iFi Micro iDSD BL into a Marantz receiver. Not ideal, but its surprisingly decent sounding
Bass: The Susvara has a tiny bit more in terms of quantity of bass, but there isn’t much in it. Pretty comparable levels. The Susvara has better sub bass. The HE6se sounds thicker in the bass, and its not as clean and precise as the Susvara. The HE6se bass seems more tactile however, and makes a strong argument for the best bass I have heard for the price.
Mids: I think the Susvara and HE6se are pretty similar in terms of their mids. They aren’t thick and warm like an Audeze LCD2 for example. They aren’t cold and clinical, and lacking presence. I’m not really sure how to describe it, but on the Susvara, I might call the mids…sweet? I definitely prefer the mids on the Susvara to the HE6se.
Treble: For my personal preferences, I prefer the Susvaras treble. It is less elevated than the HE6se, and less piercing. It just seems smoother all around. I can see someone preferring the HE6se if they like a lot of treble however. Remember, this is using both headphones unmodded. I don’t think it would be fair to compare them modded.
Ok. I’ve tried to compare the FR without taking the other “stuff” into the equation. This is because, well..the Susvara smokes the HE6se in terms of dynamics, detail retrieval, soundstage. The Susvara has far superior dynamics, both micro and macro. Detail retrieval with the Susvara is amazing, on par with the best I have heard, perhaps even the best. The HE6se has a smaller soundstage in every way, less depth, less width, less height. They are a smaller sounding headphone. The Susvara has great depth in terms of soundstage.
Comfort is much better on the Susvara than the HE6se. Less weight, and they just feel better on my head. The HE6se are comfier than Audeze headphones however.
The Susvara is the most natural sounding headphone I have heard. It just sounds right. It is a “just one more song” headphone for me. Both are great headphones, but the Susvara, for my preferences, totally beats the HE6se. However, it comes with a heavy price, even used. If you are looking for a TOTL headphone and considering the Utopia etc…I would definitely recommend giving the Susvara a listen as well. The HE6se however, is the best headphone I have heard for the money, and I would strongly recommend checking it out at $1300USD if you are looking for headphones in that price range.
I’m back on the Susvara train, and having owned the HE6se for a bit I thought I would write up a bit of a comparison. The Susvara (originally Edition 6) is sort of a successor to the original HE6 I suppose, so its natural to compare them. Both the Susvara and HE6se are too expensive at their MSRP, but the Susvara has come down in price a lot if you look around, and is doable on the used market for under $4000USD. The HE6se can be had for about $1300USD on the used market as well, which I think is a pretty good price for the sound quality you get. Is it fair to compare a $6000USD headphone to a $1800USD headphone? Perhaps not, but I think with their similarities and heritage, its worth looking at.
The set up used for listening is an iFi Micro iDSD BL into a Marantz receiver. Not ideal, but its surprisingly decent sounding
Bass: The Susvara has a tiny bit more in terms of quantity of bass, but there isn’t much in it. Pretty comparable levels. The Susvara has better sub bass. The HE6se sounds thicker in the bass, and its not as clean and precise as the Susvara. The HE6se bass seems more tactile however, and makes a strong argument for the best bass I have heard for the price.
Mids: I think the Susvara and HE6se are pretty similar in terms of their mids. They aren’t thick and warm like an Audeze LCD2 for example. They aren’t cold and clinical, and lacking presence. I’m not really sure how to describe it, but on the Susvara, I might call the mids…sweet? I definitely prefer the mids on the Susvara to the HE6se.
Treble: For my personal preferences, I prefer the Susvaras treble. It is less elevated than the HE6se, and less piercing. It just seems smoother all around. I can see someone preferring the HE6se if they like a lot of treble however. Remember, this is using both headphones unmodded. I don’t think it would be fair to compare them modded.
Ok. I’ve tried to compare the FR without taking the other “stuff” into the equation. This is because, well..the Susvara smokes the HE6se in terms of dynamics, detail retrieval, soundstage. The Susvara has far superior dynamics, both micro and macro. Detail retrieval with the Susvara is amazing, on par with the best I have heard, perhaps even the best. The HE6se has a smaller soundstage in every way, less depth, less width, less height. They are a smaller sounding headphone. The Susvara has great depth in terms of soundstage.
Comfort is much better on the Susvara than the HE6se. Less weight, and they just feel better on my head. The HE6se are comfier than Audeze headphones however.
The Susvara is the most natural sounding headphone I have heard. It just sounds right. It is a “just one more song” headphone for me. Both are great headphones, but the Susvara, for my preferences, totally beats the HE6se. However, it comes with a heavy price, even used. If you are looking for a TOTL headphone and considering the Utopia etc…I would definitely recommend giving the Susvara a listen as well. The HE6se however, is the best headphone I have heard for the money, and I would strongly recommend checking it out at $1300USD if you are looking for headphones in that price range.
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I have both of these headphones and I am in complete agreement with your findings. The HE6se is a very, very good headphone but the Susvara's bet them on every level from comfort to sound. I still enjoy listening to the HE6se for a change of pace headphone. But for pure listening enjoyment the Susvara's are the way to go.Hey Guys,
I’m back on the Susvara train, and having owned the HE6se for a bit I thought I would write up a bit of a comparison. The Susvara (originally Edition 6) is sort of a successor to the original HE6 I suppose, so its natural to compare them. Both the Susvara and HE6se are too expensive at their MSRP, but the Susvara has come down in price a lot if you look around, and is doable on the used market for under $4000USD. The HE6se can be had for about $1300USD on the used market as well, which I think is a pretty good price for the sound quality you get. Is it fair to compare a $6000USD headphone to a $1800USD headphone? Perhaps not, but I think with their similarities and heritage, its worth looking at.
The set up used for listening is an iFi Micro iDSD BL into a Marantz receiver. Not ideal, but its surprisingly decent sounding
Bass: The Susvara has a tiny bit more in terms of quantity of bass, but there isn’t much in it. Pretty comparable levels. The Susvara has better sub bass. The HE6se sounds thicker in the bass, and its not as clean and precise as the Susvara. The HE6se bass seems more tactile however, and makes a strong argument for the best bass I have heard for the price.
Mids: I think the Susvara and HE6se are pretty similar in terms of their mids. They aren’t thick and warm like an Audeze LCD2 for example. They aren’t cold and clinical, and lacking presence. I’m not really sure how to describe it, but on the Susvara, I might call the mids…sweet? I definitely prefer the mids on the Susvara to the HE6se.
Treble: For my personal preferences, I prefer the Susvaras treble. It is less elevated than the HE6se, and less piercing. It just seems smoother all around. I can see someone preferring the HE6se if they like a lot of treble however. Remember, this is using both headphones unmodded. I don’t think it would be fair to compare them modded.
Ok. I’ve tried to compare the FR without taking the other “stuff” into the equation. This is because, well..the Susvara smokes the HE6se in terms of dynamics, detail retrieval, soundstage. The Susvara has far superior dynamics, both micro and macro. Detail retrieval with the Susvara is amazing, on par with the best I have heard, perhaps even the best. The HE6se has a smaller soundstage in every way, less depth, less width, less height. They are a smaller sounding headphone. The Susvara has great depth in terms of soundstage.
Comfort is much better on the Susvara than the HE6se. Less weight, and they just feel better on my head. The HE6se are comfier than Audeze headphones however.
The Susvara is the most natural sounding headphone I have heard. It just sounds right. It is a “just one more song” headphone for me. Both are great headphones, but the Susvara, for my preferences, smokes the HE6se. However, it comes with a heavy price, even used. If you are looking for a TOTL headphone and considering the Utopia etc…I would definitely recommend giving the Susvara a listen as well. The HE6se however, is the best headphone I have heard for the money, and I would strongly recommend checking it out at $1300USD if you are looking for headphones in that price range.
Yea, the family mainly decided on obtaining either the P1 or TT2. Maybe the Niimbus depending on how it compares to TT2.
rgs9200m
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Posts
- 4,199
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- 862
I had the HE6 for a year or so some time back and, from memory, my Susvara is far better. Faster,much more relaxed and refined and far less fatiguing (in fact, with zero fatigue but still exciting). The Susvara also has much more plankton (fine detail).
I was widely advised to use a speaker amp for the 6, but that was not practical for me.
I was widely advised to use a speaker amp for the 6, but that was not practical for me.
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I'm not surprised about the Susvara outclassing the HE-6 in every way. The HE1000 kind of does that too, as do a lot of other newer high end headphones. The HE-6 is a real jack of all trades, master of none.
Headphone technology has really advanced since the debut of the HE-6. Headphones like the Susvara, Abyss Phi, Utopia, LCD-4, Empyrean, Ether 2 and even the HEK/se are all benefactors of these advancements. Even still headphones priced under the HE-6 it still beats out to my ears.
It's still surprising to me knowing that Bian is intimately aligned in R&D right now, working on the Bugatti Chiron of headphones for next year, the Susvara 2.
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