[Dawgfish]

I'm gonna say it. I'm quite impressed, what Hifiman has put out at this price-point. Sundara is the bench-mark at the price-point for sure!

I know he put out more cheaper options like 5XX and 400SE lately, and this one seems to be the transition point Hifiman planar. It seems to be the one that hits the natural timbre (depends on the recording) compared to the lower models. I'm impressed what this thing can do at this price-point.

I recall the old model it first came out, and after hearing that Sundara has been revised, it caught my interest. It does seem to have been improved signficantly. The first model I believe had the old Focus pads that seemed a bit shallow in seal, and I didn't like how the mids were presented back then.

One genre, I'm not too fond of with these is pop. It seems to bring out the shouty treble a lot pop mastering can have. If the mastering is fairly good, it does seem to express much more realistic timbre present in the recording however.

Electronics, it's amazin. Jazz, it's very good. Pop is usually the problem area for most audiophile headphones except few exceptions. This one has some slight problems with pop, but sometimes it goes with strengths in most other genres I guess. Very good technical chops at the price-point. Hifiman killin it at at these price zones. Fang knows how to make planar drivers!

Easy solution. Don't listen to pop! Works wonderfully for me!

All joking aside couldn't agree with you more about its performance for its price point. I was listening to them yesterday on a vintage Sansui Integrated (AU-719). The warm tone and power of the Sansui was a sublime match for the Sundara.

I was enjoying them so much I then decided to hook them up to a 40wpc, KT120 powered, transformer-coupled, tube amplifier. I have a speaker level to 4-pin XLR adaptor I use to connect headphones to it using a balanced cable. I use a Topping D50s to stream Tidal into it and used the volume control on the Topping. It was spectacular!

The combination of tube tone and liquidness with that much reserve power on hand was striking to hear in combination with the Sundara's detailed sound signature. I have never heard a soundstage as open and 3-dimensional sounding on headphones before.

For reference my main speaker system uses fully modified Polk SDA SRS-2s for speakers. If not familiar with the SDAs they are some of the best imaging and soundstaging speakers ever produced. There were moments when listening to some familiar songs where it was similar to listening to the SDAs. Not quite as good but approaching that level and I never heard anything quite like that listening to phones before.

 

[jasswolf]

This one is causing me some confusion.

Just out of curiosity, what is default pads? I notice the current ones look like Pali pads, and images of the early version looks to have Focus pads.

Can you link me to the article where the image was obtained?

Was on a livestream from the Headphone Show on YouTube.

 

[SilverEars]

Was on a livestream from the Headphone Show on YouTube.

Thanks. Why such a long video? I just need to know if there are differences and what the differences are. Show the pads, and point out what the distinction between the different Pali-pads. That's all I need. To the point, and simple.

 

[SilverEars]

I'm not sure if I have the purple or brown graphed one as I find that mids are on the shouty side. It resonates a bit in the mids. This is why I need to clearly see what the differences are in the way the pads are shaped between the brown and the purple graphed ones. DIYaudioheaven presents in such fashion, to the point. I recall an image he posted of the update to Sennheiser pads, and he showed clear thickness differences.

I do like how the imaging is presented though. It just sounds spatially realistic when it comes to how the images are presented. I think this imaging can really depend on the source the Sundara is running off of. Some DACs do cause more of a 3d shape/depth of the sounds in the environment (And I do not mean like surround sound, which obviously isn't happening with headphones.), and also the amp has to be capable as well. I think a capable setup can help distinguish the capability of the differences in the Hifiman models.

I'm starting to wonder if Hifiman purposefully reduces 2k to reduce resonance there?

 

[jasswolf]

Thanks. Why such a long video? I just need to know if there are differences and what the differences are. Show the pads, and point out what the distinction between the different Pali-pads. That's all I need. To the point, and simple.

It was a live stream, with an audience, as he measured and analysed in real time?

 

[calumniate]

Yeah it was a cut from a livestream. Would be great to see a summary though!

 

[jasswolf]

Yeah it was a cut from a livestream. Would be great to see a summary though!

I mean the summary would be 'neutral with Harman upper mids alongside a presence and lower treble cut with some upper treble spice'. Makes heavy vocal effects and crappy mics very obvious due to the detail level, but as source quality improves, the headphone goes further IMO. It also probably controls the sibilance that might otherwise be grating on this headphone if it went for something more Harman-esque.

Given that the previous iteration of the Sundara seemed to be more along the lines of a diffuse field curve, it seems Oratory has made a list of DF EQ settings for the revised Sundara:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xustu5xoymsxhhu/Hifiman Sundara (2020 revised earpads) (Diffuse Field).pdf?dl=0

The original Sundara EQ'd better for Harman supposedly, but this is fantastic at stock and no one really seems to like true Harman that much when it's fully presented, though usually in the 2-6 kHz region.

 

[Chodi]

Easy solution. Don't listen to pop! Works wonderfully for me!

All joking aside couldn't agree with you more about its performance for its price point. I was listening to them yesterday on a vintage Sansui Integrated (AU-719). The warm tone and power of the Sansui was a sublime match for the Sundara.

I was enjoying them so much I then decided to hook them up to a 40wpc, KT120 powered, transformer-coupled, tube amplifier. I have a speaker level to 4-pin XLR adaptor I use to connect headphones to it using a balanced cable. I use a Topping D50s to stream Tidal into it and used the volume control on the Topping. It was spectacular!

The combination of tube tone and liquidness with that much reserve power on hand was striking to hear in combination with the Sundara's detailed sound signature. I have never heard a soundstage as open and 3-dimensional sounding on headphones before.

For reference my main speaker system uses fully modified Polk SDA SRS-2s for speakers. If not familiar with the SDAs they are some of the best imaging and soundstaging speakers ever produced. There were moments when listening to some familiar songs where it was similar to listening to the SDAs. Not quite as good but approaching that level and I never heard anything quite like that listening to phones before.

I agree that the Sundara will play loud with most any amp but put them on an amp with loads of reserve current and the results are amazing. I have not heard another headphone so completely amp dependent. With the right amp these hit very far above their price point. Extraordinary how they sound good with average low power amps and then open to utterly glorious sound with a quality high power source.

 

[SilverEars]

In terms of sound dynamics another step up is HE6 OG, not sure about SE. The sound gets more dynamic in response, and if feel like Sundara is somewhat muted in dynamics in comparison, and timbre gets even more realistic with not as much mids shout. HE6 sounds more 'right' to me.

I think Sundara is much leaner and dryer than HE6OG, that might be partly the issue. I just luv the mids on the HE6OG.

 

[rlanger]

Just received my Audiophile Ninja cable for my Sundara and I gotta say this thing is beautiful.

@Benaudio, I don't know if you're still using the cheapy cable, but I can definitely recommend this cable. As far as quality of workmanship goes, it probably doesn't get much better for under $100.

I can't really comment on the sound, as I just received it today. But I'm absolutely thrilled with this cable so far.

You can check it out here.

 

[Benaudio]

Just received my Audiophile Ninja cable for my Sundara and I gotta say this thing is beautiful.

@Benaudio, I don't know if you're still using the cheapy cable, but I can definitely recommend this cable. As far as quality of workmanship goes, it probably doesn't get much better for under $100.

I can't really comment on the sound, as I just received it today. But I'm absolutely thrilled with this cable so far.

You can check it out here.

Thanks for sharing .
I’m in the skeptics camp when it comes to cables making any sonic difference, but these seem fairly price for quality cables, worth checking!

 

[rlanger]

Thanks for sharing .
I’m in the skeptics camp when it comes to cables making any sonic difference, but these seem fairly price for quality cables, worth checking!

Yeah, I am too. I didn't buy this for any benefits in sound that it might provide. That would just be a bonus.

But, I did want something nice and well-made, and I definitely got that.

 

[10000days]

Yes. Sundara is better. Go to sleep.

My pair had just arrived. Indeed, 15 minutes in and my mind is blown away... these are definitely better than the 400i and 4XX.

Some say the upgrade is small, but coming from 1.5 years of 4XX and 400i I sense there's a huge improvement. The bass is more liquid, responsive and rhythmic, the mids have this incredible immediacy to them and in the highs there is so much more microdetail. The instrument separation is downright ridiculous.

Do they benefit from burn-in? If yes, then Sundara will be my endgame for the next 5-10 years.

 

[qwes]

Morning guys!
Just ordered a pair on Amazon and tomorrow will be already on my head

Very curious to see how this can work with the iFi 6xx signature bundle, coming from Akg k240mkII and k702.

Have a good day

 

[silent-circuit]

My pair had just arrived. Indeed, 15 minutes in and my mind is blown away... these are definitely better than the 400i and 4XX.

Some say the upgrade is small, but coming from 1.5 years of 4XX and 400i I sense there's a huge improvement. The bass is more liquid, responsive and rhythmic, the mids have this incredible immediacy to them and in the highs there is so much more microdetail. The instrument separation is downright ridiculous.

Do they benefit from burn-in? If yes, then Sundara will be my endgame for the next 5-10 years.

Having owned 2 pairs of H4XX for quite some time as my "intro planars" before picking up the AIVA... I'm curious about the Susvaras, but will probably go higher up the HifiMan ladder. Still listening close.