[Module]

Well, HiFiMan quality control again... Several months ago I mentioned here about cable issue and later about glued off pads. Kudos to HiFiMan Customer Service, they responded quickly and send me replacement cable and pads. But here we go again, I faced the same problems now.
So, starting with the cable. Well, sorry HiFiMan, but it's clearly crappy cable as it is. The problem with it, It's simply poorly protected. The rubber enclosure is tiny and it is very easy damage what's inside even home only 98% time connected use. I started have this problem maybe a couple months ago, noticing sometimes right channel a bit off, but now it's degrade to sometimes right channel is completely has no signal. It's annoying I need every time to touch cable until it's fine. I saw Arya has another cable material, not sure about Ananda, maybe it's more sturdy and hard to damage. Very bad cable.
And, pads. Pics included. Sorry for bad quality.
To summarise, I really liked Sundara for its sound, for the price it's hard to find better, but I can't stand hifiman's quality control. In perspective, I thought to buy a higher end HiFiMan, it's how this hobby works anyway, but knowing it could have the same QC issues for more price, maybe I better look somewhere else. Sorry HiFiMan.
I'm not sure if I need to contact Customer Service for another replacement or I can send them back and ask for refund. It's only 1 year warranty, and I use it already twice, so yeah, can I actually send them back to HiFiMan and request refund? Would like to hear response from HiFiMan here.

 

[genck]

I've had HE-400 for over 5 years, I've learned:

Use a different source for pads (ori etc)
Use a different cable (plenty of options)
Have a replacement headband handy (sold on hifiman website)

 

[Module]

I've had HE-400 for over 5 years, I've learned:

Use a different source for pads (ori etc)
Use a different cable (plenty of options)
Have a replacement headband handy (sold on hifiman website)

So you're basically saying it's perfectly fine for customer which purchases $350 headphone to buy replacement parts for it because of crappy stock parts: different pads ($50), different cable ($80-$100), and replacement headband ($125) = $250-275?
Alright

 

[genck]

So you're basically saying it's perfectly fine for customer which purchases $350 headphone to buy replacement parts for it because of ****ty stock parts: different pads ($50), different cable ($80-$100), and replacement headband ($125) = $250-275?
Alright

I'm not saying it's alright, sorry if I misled you. For me, with the HE-400 - the main headphone I use, I'm willing to shell out money to replace stuff on it because no other sound is similar that I've heard. If you aren't happy, move on to a different company. Hifiman isn't known for great QC but I do love the sound signature of mine in particular.

 

[Bansaku]

Hifiman isn't known for great QC but I do love the sound signature of mine in particular.

I am not sure what people are talking about with HiFiMan and reports or bad QC. From what I have read they are no better nor worse than any other headphone in regards to things breaking or failing than any other company. Every company outsources production to China, which are in turn shipped via slow boat the markets. Things are bound to go wrong somewhere along the way. I have had no issues with my HE-560 or HE-4XX with heavy use. Despite reports of the Sennheiser HD 598's or the PSB M4U 1 headband cracking by many, I, nor others I know personally with the cans, have had zero issues. Schiit happens and it's not fair to single out a specific company because a few users out of many experience problems.

 

[genck]

I am not sure what people are talking about with HiFiMan and reports or bad QC. From what I have read they are no better nor worse than any other headphone in regards to things breaking or failing than any other company. Every company outsources production to China, which are in turn shipped via slow boat the markets. Things are bound to go wrong somewhere along the way. I have had no issues with my HE-560 or HE-4XX with heavy use. Despite reports of the Sennheiser HD 598's or the PSB M4U 1 headband cracking by many, I, nor others I know personally with the cans, have had zero issues. Schiit happens and it's not fair to single out a specific company because a few users out of many experience problems.

It may not even be a QC issue but more of an engineering issue, not really sure. I get your point though, I've had the headband fail (and others have as well). These are just anecdotes, anecdotal evidence is mostly means nothing anything - right? I've had nothing fail for any other equipment I have except for Hifiman stuff, oh, another anecdote. Look at amazon reviews of the 400i and drop reviews of the 4xx, there are definitely more issues than normal. It has nothing to do with being made in China.

 

[Bansaku]

Look at amazon reviews of the 400i and drop reviews of the 4xx, there are definitely more issues than normal. It has nothing to do with being made in China.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. In the present day of keyboard warriors, more people vent than praise, regardless of the product or brand.

And yes, it has EVERYTHING to do with being made in China. Do you think HiFiMAN, Sennheiser, or AKG have a dedicated plant in the PRC with company employees manufacturing their headphones? No, they are most often outsourced to a factory that is in charge of manufacturing numerous brands (especially Massdrop), with workers working long hours in less than ideal conditions for less than ideal wages, whose boss's only care about quotas over quality. There is a reason why Sennheiser still manufactures their hi-end products in Germany and have the PRC manufacture their lower tiered product lines. There is a reason why new AKG cans fall apart and stop working since they switched from made in Austria to made in China. This isn't an anecdotal placebo effect, I work in manufacturing and have experienced this first hand over the past 20 years, with these types of issues becoming more and more common.

 

[Module]

Okay, just before contacting HifiMan I decided to run sweep tones. What I found:
- Strange noise. Sometimes loud, sometimes quiet. On both channels.
- More disturbing is that probably has overall channel imbalance over frequency range. Especially, it shows at around 4-6khz. I don't know if it's okay, but you could easily notice one channel becomes louder, then another.

 

[Tshiknn]

Okay, just before contacting HifiMan I decided to run sweep tones. What I found:
- Strange noise. Sometimes loud, sometimes quiet. On both channels.
- More disturbing is that probably has overall channel imbalance over frequency range. Especially, it shows at around 4-6khz. I don't know if it's okay, but you could easily notice one channel becomes louder, then another.

What's the strange noise that you noticed? I noticed a quiet squealing especially in the left driver especially when playing higher frequencies (above 10kHz).

 

[Module]

What's the strange noise that you noticed? I noticed a quiet squealing especially in the left driver especially when playing higher frequencies (above 10kHz).

Yes, I noticed that too.

 

[Tshiknn]

Yes, I noticed that too.

I'd be interested to hear if this is something other owners have noticed when running sine sweeps, or if this indicates that our units are defective in some way. This is the first planar headphone that I've owned, but I wouldn't expect something like this to be characteristic of the breed.

Mine doesn't exhibit the channel imbalance issues you mentioned, by the way, except a tiny irregularity around 5kHz in the right channel - otherwise no. I have other headphones that do, though.

 

[Bansaku]

I'd be interested to hear if this is something other owners have noticed when running sine sweeps, or if this indicates that our units are defective in some way. This is the first planar headphone that I've owned, but I wouldn't expect something like this to be characteristic of the breed.

Mine doesn't exhibit the channel imbalance issues you mentioned, by the way, except a tiny irregularity around 5kHz in the right channel - otherwise no. I have other headphones that do, though.

Remember, headphones are made by people, and mistakes are bound to happen, regardless of the builder's skill or technology involved; Nothing it perfect. As I always like to say, schiit happens!

 

[Mhog55]

Are these any easier to push to full potential than the 400i? About the same?

 

[K.J.]

Well, HiFiMan quality control again... Several months ago I mentioned here about cable issue and later about glued off pads. Kudos to HiFiMan Customer Service, they responded quickly and send me replacement cable and pads. But here we go again, I faced the same problems now.
So, starting with the cable. Well, sorry HiFiMan, but it's clearly ****ty cable as it is. The problem with it, It's simply poorly protected. The rubber enclosure is tiny and it is very easy damage what's inside even home only 98% time connected use. I started have this problem maybe a couple months ago, noticing sometimes right channel a bit off, but now it's degrade to sometimes right channel is completely has no signal. It's annoying I need every time to touch cable until it's fine. I saw Arya has another cable material, not sure about Ananda, maybe it's more sturdy and hard to damage. Very bad cable.
And, pads. Pics included. Sorry for bad quality.
To summarise, I really liked Sundara for its sound, for the price it's hard to find better, but I can't stand hifiman's quality control. In perspective, I thought to buy a higher end HiFiMan, it's how this hobby works anyway, but knowing it could have the same QC issues for more price, maybe I better look somewhere else. Sorry HiFiMan.
I'm not sure if I need to contact Customer Service for another replacement or I can send them back and ask for refund. It's only 1 year warranty, and I use it already twice, so yeah, can I actually send them back to HiFiMan and request refund? Would like to hear response from HiFiMan here.

I did have the same exact issue with the earpads coming apart, twice actually. I can post pictures that look Identical to the one with the foam showing. I don't know if it was a bad batch or what because it happened within a week of having them, then HM sent me a replacement and it happened almost immediately again..

My best advice really is to buy your own pads. Not just due to the QC, but because you may have no idea how much they can improve the comfort over the stock PeliPads. I bought these Brainwavs Hybrids for ~$24 and it was the best decision I could've made. The comfort went up 2 or 3 notches, soundstage widened, and the bass response bumped up a tick. The stock pads i have to take the headphones off everyone in a while but I can literally sleep with the Brainwavz around my ears.

I did still have HFM send me a new pair of pads too though.

The cable i can't comment on as I immediately bought a balanced XLR to use with my Jotunheim.

 

[393699]

Alright, I have had the Sundara for a couple weeks now on the loaner tour. Once again, I would like to say thank you to Hifiman for including me in the tour. After a couple weeks with this headphone, I have to say that I am not really a fan of it. My original opinion when I first heard the headphone a couple weeks ago has not changed at all.

Equipment Used: SMSL M8A DAC (V3 with SABRE ES9028Q2M). Headphone amp is the Audio-GD C-2 (2017 Edition).

Build Quality: This headphone is built well for its price point. It is nice to see the use of so much metal. The headphone appears like it would last for years, as long as the owner takes nice care of it. This is definitely a step up in build when compared to the previous HE400i. With saying that though, I am not impressed with the fact that moving the size of the headphone up or down results in scratches and wear happening to notches area. For the price of this headphone, this should not be happening.

Comfort: I find this headphone extremely comfortable. It is far more comfortable than the HE400i. During the brief time that I owned the HE400i, I remember I would often experience jaw pain as a result of the very strong clamping force. The Sundara has the weight perfectly distributed on the head, and the clamp is just right. The pads are soft and very comfortable. Perhaps it is just the shape of my head, but I could easily wear this headphone for hours without experiencing any comfort issues. My ears fit inside the cups without touching anywhere as well. I would say that the Sundara is almost as comfortable as my Amiron Home, and the Amiron is also an extremely comfortable headphone.

Sound Quality: To be honest, I am underwhelmed by the sound of the Sundara. This headphone has a neutral sound signature. My favorite type of sound signature on a headphone is neutral, or neutral with just a slight hint of warmth. I am all about neutrality, as well as detail retrieval in a headphone. With saying that though, this headphone is far too lean and thin sounding. There is a lack of sub bass, as well as mid bass. What bass it has, is clean and articulate sounding, but there is no impact or depth to it at all. It is fast in its response and very low distortion, but very thin. I am far from a basshead. I just find this headphone is completely lacking in that department. I don't find the Sundara to be a satisfying listen at all. It is very clean sounding, but complete lacks body. I do not find this headphone to be a good option for hard rock and heavy metal music, unless you put an EQ on it. There is a noticeable dip in the mid bass between 150-250Hz. This causes guitars and other instruments to lack fullness, and sound rather thin, hollow, and uninspiring. Midrange on this headphone is clean, and not fatiguing in any way. Vocals, however, have a slight veil to them. Voices are not presented in a realistic manner, and have a bit of a nasal and hazy presentation.

Soundstage on this headphone is decent in terms of depth and dynamics, but is rather narrow for an open back headphone. Despite this though, instruments are nicely separated and easily distinguishable from one another. Imaging on the headphone is nice for this price level, but again, the presentation is somewhat closed in. Now, on to the treble. This headphone is greatly improved in the treble when compared to the HE400i. I owned that headphone a few years ago, and I ended up selling it. I could not stand its harsh, sibilant, and grainy mid treble response in the 7-9kHz region. The Sundara has a very clean and smooth treble response. It has decent extension, but I wish it was a bit more detailed. The Sundara is slightly on the bright side, but only slightly. However, it is not harsh, piercing, sibilant, or grainy at all. With saying that though, snare drums do not sound correct at all on this headphone. There appears to be issues happening at around 6kHz and 10kHz, and this results in snare drum hits just not sounding natural at all.

I think this is certainly a decent headphone, but I am very hard to please. This headphone is just not for me. The narrow soundstage, small image, lack of bass impact, extension, and fullness really make this headphone a bland listen for me. When comparing the Sundara with my Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, the Amiron is just better in every way. Granted, the Amiron is a more expensive headphone, so this is not really a surprise.

Once again, thank you to Hifiman for including me in this tour. I know that the tour is still happening for the Hifiman Ananda headphone as well. I have always wanted to hear the Ananda. I imagine that it is a big step up in sound quality when compared to the Sundara. I am wondering if it would be possible for me to be a part of that tour ? Thanks again to Hifiman for including me in the Sundara tour.