[haudaikuwa]

Thank you, will watch when I get the chance.

And good to hear you don't find it boring as one reviewer in here did ("underwhelming").



Good to know you have the 400i to directly compare (memory is so fallible). It's very odd that sometimes I find them kind of slow, because at other times they are paced just fine, if not even energetic. I know that of course different songs have different tempos and such, and listener's have different moods (so when you are tired you might not notice the sluggishness, but when you are energized you can feel more like "come on, come on, let's go!" in terms of "song speed") but it's weird. I would like it if the Sundara's were faster paced at any rate, as they seem to be.

I guess the main problem I have with the 400i's is that seem too congested to me now in the mids (especially low mids). I'd like more air, more instrument separation. I don't need a huge sound stage, that's not the problem, just more clarity.[/QUOT

Thank you, will watch when I get the chance.

And good to hear you don't find it boring as one reviewer in here did ("underwhelming").



Good to know you have the 400i to directly compare (memory is so fallible). It's very odd that sometimes I find them kind of slow, because at other times they are paced just fine, if not even energetic. I know that of course different songs have different tempos and such, and listener's have different moods (so when you are tired you might not notice the sluggishness, but when you are energized you can feel more like "come on, come on, let's go!" in terms of "song speed") but it's weird. I would like it if the Sundara's were faster paced at any rate, as they seem to be.

I guess the main problem I have with the 400i's is that seem too congested to me now in the mids (especially low mids). I'd like more air, more instrument separation. I don't need a huge sound stage, that's not the problem, just more clarity.

Yeah you're dead on. Mid congestion, needing more instrument separation, and more clarity. It's the way the beat drops that give it it's something. Switching back and forth between the two the sundara's definitely seem faster.

 

[ls13coco]

Thanks for the direct comparison and yes, I find that sometimes when we listen to headphones that we were impressed with after not listening to them for awhile, especially when comparing them to a newer/more advanced model, we can be surprised or even shocked that we liked them so much because they just won't sound that great in comparison (that happened with all my old cans compared to the T1). The Senn HD 595's were my first real headphone btw (I never really liked them that much though); I go back that far ha!

Great, looks like I might have to throw some more money at some cans! I've been into the audio world since the mid 00's (was even on this forum under a different name) but after I finally made myself pay $900 for the T1's I was "out" and stayed away from the forums mostly. Then I saw the hype about the 400i's some time after they were released, and thought I had to try them and that different technology for the price. I was happily surprised and then I left again: ok 2 nice cans, I'm good. But recently I had to change the pads for the 400i's and that led me to looking at the new models HiFiMan had, whereupon I saw the Sundara's and that tempting price. So now here I am yet again lol.

Exactly, I worry what I would think of the 598 now seeing as the he400i blew me away when I got them. I had a euphoric listen with the 400i the way I got them, unlike how I've heard music through headphones ever before.
But fast forward to my current rotation, it's hard to go back. I did notice though that if I were to start with the 400i I could really enjoy them, but after putting on a "nicer" pair and listening within the same several minutes that I couldn't go back.

The nice thing is that $350 USD price for the Sundara is probably one of the best deals to my knowledge when it comes to headphones. A worthy and not ridiculously priced next step from the 400i.

 

[PoSR77]

Yeah you're dead on. Mid congestion, needing more instrument separation, and more clarity. It's the way the beat drops that give it it's something. Switching back and forth between the two the sundara's definitely seem faster.

Just what I'm looking for! I watched that video btw, and what he describes is also what I'm looking for: the Hifiman type sound, only improved.

Exactly, I worry what I would think of the 598 now seeing as the he400i blew me away when I got them. I had a euphoric listen with the 400i the way I got them, unlike how I've heard music through headphones ever before.
But fast forward to my current rotation, it's hard to go back. I did notice though that if I were to start with the 400i I could really enjoy them, but after putting on a "nicer" pair and listening within the same several minutes that I couldn't go back.

The nice thing is that $350 USD price for the Sundara is probably one of the best deals to my knowledge when it comes to headphones. A worthy and not ridiculously priced next step from the 400i.

Yea, $350 is not that much in the audio world, but it is too much to spend on something that wouldn't significantly improve on what I already have. Of course, there are returns, but I hate messing with returns (one of those things that just gets to me).

Since I'm in no hurry, I think I will wait until around the holidays and see if there are any sales/coupon codes/etc. So it might be awhile until I get these, but I will post my comparisons/impressions when I do. Thanks for the info/advice all!

 

[JamminVMI]

Looking closely at these with the price drop.

I have the 400i's and like/love their sound signature, very impressed with them (even for the $250 I paid for them a couple years ago). It's a nice contrast to my first gen Beyer T1's, my main cans. There's something different about the planar sound (the 400i's are my first experience with it).

I'm wondering if the Sundara's are objectively better (more neutral) than the 400i's or a different sound signature (but not radically different) and if the improvements/difference are worth the price. Reading reviews it's hard to tell. I wouldn't want to spend $350 for modest improvements or differences. I like neutrality, resolution, a lean tight and taut sound, am no bass-head, treble doesn't bother me (I even lean towards a "bright" sound) and so far am fond of the HiFiman house sound (I have had various products from them going back to around when they first launched: IEM's, headphone amps...and no quality problems btw, with all products still working, if not used often).

I would like neutrality combined with a little excitement/energy or "snap" (which I find with the 400i's), not a laid back headphone, and fast paced is very appealing (sometimes I feel like the 400i's drag a bit). So while I like neutrality (when others complain of clinicalness or a "dry, "cold", or "hard" sound I don't get it), I'm afraid the Sundara's might be too laid back...for reference I don't like older Senn's which I have found exactly that (as well as too warm).

The 400i's do have their drawbacks, they aren't superior to my T1's in terms of resolution or neutrality or musicality and their mids can sound congested/recessed imo, but they sure are a fun option with a different presentation (I particularly like them with 80's pop/synth pop/rock for some reason). I find them very textured, like they are pulling or combing the sound to extract minute details, especially in the low-mid bass which is very articulate. It's an approach I've never heard before in any can or speaker.

Anyway, so save my money or take the plunge? What do you guys think? TIA in advance.

PS: Will be pairing them with my Schiit Asgard 2 so no problems in driving them.

I bought a pair after my time with them on the loaner tour. Love them with Lyr 3!

 

[haudaikuwa]

Just what I'm looking for! I watched that video btw, and what he describes is also what I'm looking for: the Hifiman type sound, only improved.



Yea, $350 is not that much in the audio world, but it is too much to spend on something that wouldn't significantly improve on what I already have. Of course, there are returns, but I hate messing with returns (one of those things that just gets to me).

Since I'm in no hurry, I think I will wait until around the holidays and see if there are any sales/coupon codes/etc. So it might be awhile until I get these, but I will post my comparisons/impressions when I do. Thanks for the info/advice all!

Z Reviews dropped a vid on them today, and he took down his Advanced Alphas to put them on his wall. Mine are made better than his cause I can shake them hard up and down and the cups won't shift down a spot. They probably tightened up on qc, mine are sturdy and appears to be issue free. He said mostly they were built well and more HFM headphones need to be built like that more.

 

[madugo]

The sundara arrived today via the sundara tour.

Thank you Hifiman for the opportunity to let me try it out.

First impression:

Since owning two hifiman headphone prior, the boxing material is similar as the others, but I was impressed with the built quality on the sundara even I previously read about the built quality of it. Maybe because I had bad experiences with the 400i built quality, as I had to return two times, both pair had broken ring around the cable jack. It was a nice improvement on the headphone jack of the sundara. The metal housing is very well made. I am actually a little envy and wish that my he5se has the same metal housing instead of the plastic one similar to 400i.

Have not had a lot of chance to listen it yet, but the first impression is to me is this is a very neutral phone, the treble is on the bright side but very well controlled. a little boring compare to the he5se, which I was more impressed out of the box.

Will have a more detail review once I am near the end of my tour time.

 

[Krassi]

Hi there!

i was lurking around a planar headphone that would be an upgrade to my dt880 and after watching a Review (something with a "z" ) i was interested and found this interesting thread here with tons of infos and great impressions of the Hifiman Sundara..

So when looking for it i stumbled upon a real bargain offer (from a guy thats actually 3 kilometers away from me) and got it today together with a nice 3m Carday cable..

-Out of the box i was very impressed by the solid build quality and simplicity of the design.. like the bauhaus priciple "form follows function" its so simple in the design but offers an amazing fit when i put it on my head.. I ordered me additional Dekoni hybrid pads from england that have not arrived yet. Comfort is allready amazing.
-I have plugged it in my khardas+atom combo right now with this nice build cable (the dude sold it for a 1/3 of the original price plus some nice adapters from 6,3 to 3,5 ..the whole package for the recent retail price of the headphones)
-Ok ok enough said about the looks.. wow! they sound amazing!
-Whatever i throw at them sounds amazing on them!
Classical music, Jazz, electronic stuff, house.. whatever
-For the first impression the bass is pleasant but enough and vocals sound amazing.
Its a real step up from my dt880 in every aspect!
-I cant wait to get the E1DA PowerDAC v2 next week and mmcx/3,5 adapters to drive them balanced with cable 174 .. and EQ the hell out of them on this dac...

Really an amazing pair of headphones and iam a Planar Fan now (ok also got Tin P1 yesterday so i also got planars to go now)

Best regards, Daniel!
And THANKS A LOT for all the Infos and that i really chose the perfect matching upper midrange headphones for me.

OK.... this improvised designer headphone stand is my office water cooker

 

[CTheE]

Hi there!

i was lurking around a planar headphone that would be an upgrade to my dt880 and after watching a Review (something with a "z" ) i was interested and found this intereting thread here with tons of infos and great impressions of the Hifiman Sundara..

So when looking for it i stumbled upon a real bargain offer (from a guy thats actually 3 kilometers away from me) and got it today together with a nice 3m Carday cable..

-Out of the box i was very impressed by the solid build quality and simplicity of the design.. like the bauhaus priciple "form follows function" its so simple in the design but offers an amazing fit when i put it on my head.. I ordered me additional Dekoni hybrid pads from england that have not arrived yet. Comfort is allready amazing.
-I have plugged it in my khardas+atom combo right now with this nice build cable (the dude sold it for a 1/3 of the original price plus some nice adapters from 6,3 to 3,5 ..the whole package for the recent retail price of the headphones)
-Ok ok enough said about the looks.. wow! they sound amazing!
-Whatever i throw at them sounds amazing on them!
Classical music, Jazz, electronic stuff, house.. whatever
-For the first impression the bass is pleasant but enough and vocals sound amazing.
Its a real step up from my dt880 in every aspect!
-I cant wait to get the E1DA PowerDAC v2 next week and mmcx/3,5 adapters to drive them balanced with cable 174 .. and EQ the hell out of them on this dac...

Really an amazing pair of headphones and iam a Planar Fan now (ok also got Tin P1 yesterday so i also got planars to go now)

Best regards, Daniel!
And THANKS A LOT for all the Infos and that i really chose the perfect matching upper midrange headphones for me.

OK.... this improvised designer headphone stand is my office water cooker

tbh, this looks better than many cheap hp-stands out there, and serves a purpose when not using it as hp-stand. well done.

 

[Krassi]

Absolutly! This full aluminium case and parts feel better than my plastic880 (chrome edition.. but its plastic with paint )

Listening to some stuff i know and gives me goosebumps... well if you never listened to a planar before you cant appreciate this sound.
Well for me its the bang for the buck i was looking for.. and zeos nailed it.

Next thing is the E1Da dac and eq it to heaven + new pads + the balanced even sicker cable )
the problem with hifi stuff is.. once you hear something better everything before is degraded.. like with a new pair of glasses.. it was 100% and normal before.. but with new lenses you recognize that you were happy with a muddy vision ) .. once on its instant the new 100%
And still all the stuff is still very budget and a big jump to much better sound for me!

Best regards, daniel

Edit:
Holy crap .. i am listening to them for 6 hours now.. i forgot that i am are wearing them because they dondt offend me or i thing about wearing them on my head.. also i just had the ghost in the shell opening and that gave me neraly goosebumps.. really an upgrade for me!

Bass is enough an full and the treble goes up to levels that i did not have before but never unpleasent or hissing or like a burning nail thats drilling in your head...

i dondt reget getting them! .. nice ones! and at the moment runnign on unbalanced and the atom.. so theres still room for improvements

 

[Krassi]

tbh, this looks better than many cheap hp-stands out there, and serves a purpose when not using it as hp-stand. well done.

Hmm actually i got the same water cooker at home and i dondt have "that standard chinese wood Headphonestand" yet ...is is still in the aliexpress shipping blackhole..
So i guess ill use this as a designer headstand until the real one arrives

I really love those headphones as i mentioned.. after listening to them for 10 hours in a row i am very satisfied with the pleasant sound.
the highs are strikeing but are allways still pleasant.. feels like its just a touch below what would hurt and it keeps this all the time..
Hard to describe.. piercing and still gentle

The 3meter cardas copper cable i got together with this really is a good match for those headphones.


best regarda, daniel

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I really really adore this headphone. It was basically instant love the first time I put it on my head.
Yet when I at times take a small break from X new headphone...and then revisit after the honeymoon, more often than not I find myself slightly underwhelmed. Not with the Sundara though...not even slightly!

I recently caved in and bought an LCD-2C based on all the rave reviews. I have a soft spot for warm tilted headphones that also manage to sound clear. At first I was extremely enamoured with it’s presentation - the warm embrace of a planar tuned the old school way...yet when I then finally sat down and compared the Audeze with the Hifiman it hit me right off the bat: the Sundara is the better headphone!!
Sure this is my ears and my taste but I hear significantly more detail over the Hifiman. I think it’s the sign of a more correct frequency response (the Audeze falls over a cliff in the high mids). The comfort is also far better.

Alright then I thought to myself...why not try and sell off the LCD-2C and opt for something like the Ananda instead? Well I recently tried on the Ananda and damn it if it didn’t sound almost exactly like my Sundara! Granted it sounds a teeny tiny bit more smooth but that actually made me prefer the Sundara. It is one of my favourite things about the Sundara - that it doesn’t sound overly soft and laidback. No it sort of implements an edge I normally associate with dynamic drivers - which is wholly missing from it’s pricier big brother imho.
That being said, the bigger cups of the Ananda make it feel like a different experience altogether....but sound quality-wise I’m not sure one is upgrading. The same goes for the Audeze, where I actually think one is downgrading...again per my tastebuds

Btw if you guys happen to have a tube amp lying around...well try and hook this badboy up to it and experience first hand how the Sundara magically takes on even more air and literally throws you up in the airwaves. The endemic airy and open nature of the headphone somehow finds yet another gear.
There’s a birdlike quality to this can that I really dig. Every time I need a break from everyday life I book a flight with the Sundara. No boarding and passport nonsense but all flytime and wind in my face.

 

[G0rt]

In my experience, Sundara is very much harder to drive to their potential than Ananda.

Balanced drive is beneficial, purely for maximum power transfer, and tubes do complement their natural planar sweetness.

Hifiman are like equine thoroughbreds that will only give their best when driven with authority.

 

[Krassi]

thats what i also thought when i plugging them in my nintendo switch for fun.. it was not loud on maximum.
i have jds atom and today i got an E1DA PowerdacV2 to drive them.
The Atom works really great on them.

 

[bagwell359]

In my experience, Sundara is very much harder to drive to their potential than Ananda.

Balanced drive is beneficial, purely for maximum power transfer, and tubes do complement their natural planar sweetness.

Hifiman are like equine thoroughbreds that will only give their best when driven with authority.

This is generally true of the older round cup HFM. The HE5LE, HE-500, HE-6, HE-4 need a good amount of juice to get very far - the HE-6 needs at least 15 wpc. The 400 (i/s/xx) seem to run fine on a 5-6 year old DAP (Fiio X-3) and don't really scale much when running on a Gumby and Rag 1 balanced.

OTOH the newer big cup models HEX and Ananda are very efficient but obviously scale with a better DAC/amp. The HEK series is less efficient - they need the quality and the push.

 

[Module]

Hello guys,
I want to share my experience with hifiman customer service. A month ago I decided return my Sundara for replacement because of many problem with it I posted earlier here. A month has passed, post mail tried to deliver the package multiple times and nothing. Guess what, it turns out recipient is on his business trip and the package is returning to me.
If I have any other headphones maybe I wasn't that pissed off, but there is already a month I listen music through crappy speakears