[Anaz]

Man, I feel exactly the same... I never understand people complain about the harshness of the HE-560, to me is total oposite, like you describe, but i must say: i have bad bad ears in these hobby

Personally, I liked the HE-560 but I thought they were a little too bright - nothing harsh though (I have a DT-770 for that LOL). I prefer the flatter treble of the Sundara.

 

[Anaz]

Important when reading reviews here:

All reviews are in RELEVANCE to what reviewer is used to.

• Used to HEX-V2 ? ====> Sundara sounds light and bright.
• Used to HE1000-V2 ? ====> Sundara sounds dark and rolled-off.
• Used to HD800/800S? ====> Sundara sounds more "fun" and "all-round". Senns are not designed to be "all-round".
• Used to HD600/650? ====> Sundara sounds more airy, more clear, w deeper bass
• Used to LCD-3 ? ====> Sundara sounds way more detailed, open, and airy.
• Used to HE-6 / HE-4 ? ====> Sundara sounds less clear, muffled, rolled-off, w smaller soundstage.

REMEMBER:

• Amplifier = VERY important.
  
  • Sounds "less bad" with lesser amps
• Dont take everything said here literally.
• Order them, listen ==> keep em or return em.
• Listen yourself, Make your own decisions.

"My" Verdict:

• 500 USD high for build-quality, not the sound.
• Not comfortable:
  • Headband / head-arch not good = does not have play.
  • Headband reminiscent of HPs of the 70s
• Not portable HP
• Great "All-Round" HP.
• Needs loooong brun-in > 100 h.
• CHANGE THE CABLE!

SOUND:

• Bass:
  • Deep, powerful, extended.
  • U can feel the cups shake.
  • Want more bass? Something is wrong w your equipment / ears
• Mids:
  • Less clear than previous HFM cans.
  • "veiled" and muffled sounding vs older HFM cans.
• Highs:
  • Definitely rolled off ==> see measurements

GOOD LUCK!!

Thank you for the summary. What cables do you recommend?

 

[kidgafanhoto]

Personally, I liked the HE-560 but I thought they were a little too bright - nothing harsh though (I have a DT-770 for that LOL). I prefer the flatter treble of the Sundara.

I had one 560, but sold them, I'm feel a bit regretful. My fear in buying a new headphone is missing the soft dynamics of the 560.

 

[Hedonism]

Just got Sundara. Great pairing with CTH. Bumps up and fills out the thin/distant mids a tad. Great complement to my AFO.

 

[yaby1979]

I have just purchased the Sundara for $700 New Zealand. I just sold my He 400i that has leather coming off the pads for a very reduced price so now i'll only have these and the HE 4XX which sound almost identical in every way to the HE400i, hopefully i notice an upgrade in sound . I also sold my HD650 not too long ago as the HE400i just outdid them in every category i feel

To my ear the improvement between the Sundara and HE-400i is as great as the improvement of the HE-400i over the HD-650. Haven't touched my HD-650's or HE-400i's since receiving my Sundara's. I'll save the psycho babble descriptions for the clowns. If you like the 400i you'll Love Sundara!

 

[yaby1979]

I just opened mine a few minute ago and am pleasantly surprised with the sound out of the box.

The headband looks like it was designed by a mechanical/production engineer and is purely practical and functional, which I have no issue with (but I will delve further).

Surprisingly, I am able to drive it easily with my Hidizs AP100 DAP (which I was concerned about as mobility is very important to me).

Comfort wise it won't win any awards but I find it adequate and if I decide to keep it I can always bend the metal headband to reduce the clamping force.

I am also fairly happy with the included cable as it is not too long (1.45 M) and seems well made and I reckon that it will easily coil up in a pocket along with a DAP.

But do I really need these? Time will tell but in the meantime I will run it in 24/7 (as part of decision making process and to see if any faults develop).

I am not hearing a veil or recessed mids but it is all relative and I would probably describe the mids as "not in your face" but it has plenty of mids depending on the recording.

Early days but I would probably see it as a step up from the Fidelio X2 and is certainly different enough to justify trying it out for yourself.

P.S.it my first planar experience so I have nothing to compare it with and I have not tried the HD600/650 but I have owned the Beyer T1.2, DT1990 and Amiron.

If you like them right out of the box you'll love them as they bresk in. They get much better with time.

 

[soal]

I'll save the psycho babble descriptions for the clowns

You above the fray, I understand. No personal impressions, no comparisons, just "you'll love them". That's enough, no doubt.

 

[yaby1979]

You above the fray, I understand. No personal impressions, no comparisons, just "you'll love them". That's enough, no doubt.

No I’m hoping people won’t waste their time reading this mindless crap by 3 or 4 people on here that probably have never heard Sundara and will try it for themselves. Only a moron would make a $500 purchase decision based on this contradictory useless garbage. Does that clear it up for you? And my comment was a response to one person that has the same headphones that I do. Intended for that person. Not you. And your reading comprehension must have missed the comparison that I made. Personal impressions are just that. They will have little in common with others personal impressions. So rather than, like a few people on here that think that their ‘personal impressions’ must mean something to everyone else on here, I’ll let Paddy make his own since he, unlike you, has actually purchased Sundara. You see, so many people like maybe you, that wish they could buy Sundara but own some older lesser headphone, come on here and hope that we real Sundara owners will tell you to keep what you have so that you’ll be happy with your old discontinued 560’s. So please don’t take the time to respond to something that I send to a fellow Sundara owner because I had care less either what you think or how your 560’s sound for that matter. You know the old saying?? It was an A -B conversation. So C your way out. Thanks again

 

[CoFire]

Without trying to be a target of any hostility here, the impressions of the 560 are all over the board in comparison to the Sundara.

Insight story, a friend recently purchased some Magnepan speakers that I borrowed and was pushing with a receiver. The magnepan crossover has the option to shunt the high frequency ribbon with a straight short or resister to tune essentially 2 kHz and above (not exact but in the ballpark). I found that magical resister for my setup which was perfect. Later I borrowed a friend's high powered amp (300 W power channel) for which I imagined needing a higher ohm resister to forget shunt the highs since there would be a lot more power to drive the speakers. End result was that I had to revert back to the straight short at the crossover because much more power actually controlled the highs such that the resister was unnecessary. Even at high volumes the high frequencies didn't have that edginess I was trying to avoid.

Magnepan and Hifiman are both based on planar magnetic speaker technology. I know they are not the same and didn't list equipment above to avoid any distracting debate. I just want to point out that changing the chain was significant and doesn't always have the expected outcome. Essentially, I think everyone has good intentions and I think most of these differences are more attributed to the chain and other factors. It's well known that the HE560 scale more than the 400i with the chain so the reviews may be a product of chain differences. There are some great, expensive amps that sound terrible on the HD650 (and possibly the HE560 but less reported) so scale doesn't necessarily mean high dollar.

I'm interested in Sundara (no I don't own them) impressions and I think the good thing to note is that the discussions around them are in a favorable direction with the given differences we've read.

I'm also surprised at the recommendations to change the cable. I recall hearing or reading the Sundara cable is crystallized copper which I've always heard more highly regarded in premium cable discussions for those in cable debates. This is surprising it's recommended to change it. Is it because of sonic character or aesthetics? The 400i cable aesthetically was a nightmare.

 

[Anaz]

Without trying to be a target of any hostility here, the impressions of the 560 are all over the board in comparison to the Sundara.

Insight story, a friend recently purchased some Magnepan speakers that I borrowed and was pushing with a receiver. The magnepan crossover has the option to shunt the high frequency ribbon with a straight short or resister to tune essentially 2 kHz and above (not exact but in the ballpark). I found that magical resister for my setup which was perfect. Later I borrowed a friend's high powered amp (300 W power channel) for which I imagined needing a higher ohm resister to forget shunt the highs since there would be a lot more power to drive the speakers. End result was that I had to revert back to the straight short at the crossover because much more power actually controlled the highs such that the resister was unnecessary. Even at high volumes the high frequencies didn't have that edginess I was trying to avoid.

Magnepan and Hifiman are both based on planar magnetic speaker technology. I know they are not the same and didn't list equipment above to avoid any distracting debate. I just want to point out that changing the chain was significant and doesn't always have the expected outcome. Essentially, I think everyone has good intentions and I think most of these differences are more attributed to the chain and other factors. It's well known that the HE560 scale more than the 400i with the chain so the reviews may be a product of chain differences. There are some great, expensive amps that sound terrible on the HD650 (and possibly the HE560 but less reported) so scale doesn't necessarily mean high dollar.

I'm interested in Sundara (no I don't own them) impressions and I think the good thing to note is that the discussions around them are in a favorable direction with the given differences we've read.

I'm also surprised at the recommendations to change the cable. I recall hearing or reading the Sundara cable is crystallized copper which I've always heard more highly regarded in premium cable discussions for those in cable debates. This is surprising it's recommended to change it. Is it because of sonic character or aesthetics? The 400i cable aesthetically was a nightmare.

With regard to the Sundara vs. HE-560, and even though I prefer the Sundara, the HE-560 is a capable headphone that checks many of the same boxes, so I can see why opinions would be divergent about which one was better. [edit] I advised someone else earlier in this thread to listen to both if they wanted to decide between them.[/edit]

With regard to the chain, I don't agree: the Sundara and HE-560 are very similar in execution and so you'd expect to compare them on the same chain.

 

[CoFire]

With regard to the Sundara vs. HE-560, and even though I prefer the Sundara, the HE-560 is a capable headphone that checks many of the same boxes, so I can see why opinions would be divergent about which one was better. [edit] I advised someone else earlier in this thread to listen to both if they wanted to decide between them.[/edit]

With regard to the chain, I don't agree: the Sundara and HE-560 are very similar in execution and so you'd expect to compare them on the same chain.

I see your point. This assumes the Sundara has the same ease or difficulty to drive as the HE560. This, I feel is what everyone is trying to understand. If we compared the 400i and 560, it's conceivable with a less powerful rig the 400i could outperform the 560. My perception is the Sundara is easier to drive than the 560. I haven't seen too many people comment on its scalability.

Your point on testing on the same rig though is a good point.

 

[SilverEars]

HE560 takes significantly more power to drive properly. You'd at least need an amp that can drive HE560 properly to compare both.

 

[Paddy]

I see your point. This assumes the Sundara has the same ease or difficulty to drive as the HE560. This, I feel is what everyone is trying to understand. If we compared the 400i and 560, it's conceivable with a less powerful rig the 400i could outperform the 560. My perception is the Sundara is easier to drive than the 560. I haven't seen too many people comment on its scalability.

Your point on testing on the same rig though is a good point.

I tried to compare the HE560 and HE400i on my samsung s8 plus and a Fii0 A5 amp a few months ago, the 400i was driven easily at 75% volume which is quite loud. With the HE560 i maxed both the phone and amp volume and it was still under what it needed to be to hear the difference. The HE560 are simply not an efficient headphone. Their specs show the sensitivity at 90db and OHM at 50 while the Sundara is a sensitivity of 94db and OHM of 37 so sensitivity is slightly above the HE400i though OHM slightly more aswell. After asking many people and seeing the reviews it is clear the Sundara can run almost as easy as the HE400i, perhaps a bit more juice though this still puts this into the portable category if one has a portable amp so for me the fact that many are saying it's better than the HE560 and yet more efficient is a huge step forward

 

[SilverEars]

HE560 takes about as much power as the HEK, maybe even slightly more. It's not easy to drive. Sure, the Sundara is more efficient, and not as difficult to drive, but you'd still need to amp it to drive properly, just not as significantly as the HE560 or HEK.

 

[Vero Golf Champ]

Picked up my Sundaras a couple of days ago. Not sure how the other Kiwi here got his for 700, looks like I missed a trick. Had an issue with the left channel initially, but worked fine when I took them back to the shop. Had to go there anyway for an extension cable as I'd forgotten it's ridiculously short.

First impressions are very good, seems they shade my Nighthawks and Z7s once hooked up to the Black Cube Linear fed by an Onkyo NS6170 streamer, if not for comfort.

Will post some further impressions and pics once I've run them in a bit.