[yaby1979]

One has to be careful with initial enthousiam of course and should read between the lines, ask questions and be opened to eventuality having to get rid of the headphones in the end. This happened to me with the Meze 99 classics.

From all i can read, it seems like the Sundara could be a valuable replacement/sidegrade for the he560, for some at least.

And I can’t believe that anyone that is Truly interested in this headphone doesn’t just simply purchase it on Amazon or wherever and listen for 30 days. Pretty easy and risk free. To base a $500 purchase decision on this psychobabble would be ludicrous.

 

[TheoS53]

And I can’t believe that anyone that is Truly interested in this headphone doesn’t just simply purchase it on Amazon or wherever and listen for 30 days. Pretty easy and risk free. To base a $500 purchase decision on this psychobabble would be ludicrous.

Well, I don't know what the demographics of H-F are, but I'm going to assume that most of the users aren't from the US. As such, most people will, unfortunately, not have access to that convenience. To make matters worse, if they don't have a local stockist, then they have o choice BUT to rely on the impressions of others and take the risk of ordering online even if it means that a return wouldn't be feasible.

 

[yaby1979]

Well, I don't know what the demographics of H-F are, but I'm going to assume that most of the users aren't from the US. As such, most people will, unfortunately, not have access to that convenience. To make matters worse, if they don't have a local stockist, then they have o choice BUT to rely on the impressions of others and take the risk of ordering online even if it means that a return wouldn't be feasible.

I understand your point. That makes it even more important then to cut through this nonsense on here recently and try to find Reasonable Relevant Reviews . Good luck to all.

 

[TheoS53]

I understand your point. That makes it even more important then to cut through this nonsense on here recently and try to find Reasonable Relevant Reviews . Good luck to all.

Yup yup, that's why I try to remain as honest and objective as I can in my reviews

 

[yaby1979]

You can sample and compare the outputted sound with the recording using a pro recording setup. Then you will know if the reproduction is faithful. Easeffortin say than to do.

But as mentioned, no one hears the same things beause of different ear responses. So what sound dead neutral to one wiill be different to another person's neutral. Plus there could be aslo different shades of neutral and preferences with this regard.

For a good example of this the great recording engineer Peter McGrath has made an art of Absolute music reproduction from recording to what one hears ..Peter was a protege of the even greater Mark Levinson whom founded Mark Levinson Audio Systems ( not the current joke owned by Harmon that basically stole Mark's name). Stereophile did a great in depth article on Peter's quest to bring great quality audio to all of us that truly love Music . Some of Peter's great recordings can be found on the Harmonia Mundi label.

 

[yaby1979]

Yup yup, that's why I try to remain as honest and objective as I can in my reviews

Loved your YouTube Sundara review btw ..Thanks for the effort .

 

[Dystasia]

Just opened mine a few minute ago and am pleasantly surprised with the sound out of the box.

The headband looks like it was designed by a mechanical/production engineer and is purely practical and functional, which I have no issue with (but I will delve further).

Surprisingly, I am able to drive it easily with my Hidizs AP100 DAP (which I was concerned about as mobility is very important to me).

Comfort wise it won't win any awards but I find it adequate and if I decide to keep it I can always bend the metal headband to reduce the clamping force.

I am also happy with the included cable as it is not too long (1.45 M) and seems well made and I reckon that it will easily coil up in a pocket along with a DAP.

But do I really need, time will tell but in the meantime I will run it in 24/7 (as part of decision making process and to see if any faults develop).

I am not hearing a veil or recessed mids but it is all relative and I would probably describe it as not in your face but has plenty of mids depending on the recording.

Early days but I would probably hear it as a step up from the Fidelio X2 and is certainly different enough to justify trying it out for yourself.

P.S. my first planar experience so I have nothing to compare it with and have not tried the HD600/650 but I have owned the Beyer T1.2, DT1990 and Amiron.

I went from X2 to Sundara as well. My first impression was how clear the Sundara sound was when compared. I felt that I could hear more "in-between" music (some would call that detail, some other would call that a different signature). There was also a loss of energy in the low end, but a gain in mids and highs clarity. There was nothing being overshadowed in the sub frequencies of any range. I think that's what Tyll calls coherent in portraying the whole of the music. I do found some strange peaks in for example piano notes that would fade away as you keep using the headphone (burn-in or getting used to it I don't know but that's how i felt). In my case I haven't picked up my X2 after the Sundara came in for music, but I would still pick it up for gaming.

 

[franz12]

I like the feel of the headphone overall, which is a step forward for ergonomics. It feels like HD650 in the amount of clamping force, but it feels quite secure in place and probably helps seal a bit for the bass as well. It performs really well in most every other categories except vocals, sometime tracks vocals seem to recess more than others. Vocal don't seem consistent. I think this is partially due to the recording and the other part the mid recession. Also, tad lacking in vocal definition.

Looks wise, Hifiman has not really passed the design exam. Lets say that.

When there is that rock music congestion(with the distorion, drums, etc..), it sounds a bit blended in, and not sounding defined in those congested rock passages. Other than that, it performs really well.

Guitar picking sounds very quick and responsive with airy feel to them.

....
I like the snappiness, and fast response. It feels really quick like electrostats.

I pretty much agree with your impressions. Even though it has a few flaws, it is incredibly balanced. Compared to ether c flow, Sundara is a pretty much 'uncolored' headphone. Once my ears adapt, I prefer ether c flow sounds, but I need at least 10 mins (similar to what Tyll says about aeon flow open).

Absolutely. Which is why I say, when we talk about detail retrieval, neutrality, accuracy, etc...we're just estimating.

As a side note: this is why I simply cannot understand anyone's reasoning when they claim "measurements don't mean much, trust your ears". Measurements are intended to give absolute truth (assuming correct calibration)...they exist because they give us the ability to detect and measure various parameters in far more detail and with much greater accuracy and precision than we could ever hope to achieve with only our ears.

Can you imagine if if a car manufacturer (or performance tuning house) claimed that a car made 500HP, and when asked for a dyno sheet to backup their claims they said something along the lines of "oh we don't believe in measurements, we judge the amount of power by what we feel when we drive it". Eeeeerm, ok then. They wouldn't last long, would they? Yet, somehow, when we get into this wonderful little audiophile world, then suddenly measurement systems are apparently far less capable and unreliable than our own severely limited and flawed anatomy.

I absouletly agree. Measurements are important as ‘one’ of objective measures. It may not tell 100 percent of headphones. But I believe it tells at least 80 percent about it, if it is done correctly.

 

[ra990]

Having a tough time finding a balanced XLR cable for these, anyone have suggestions?

 

[SilverEars]

HE-560 is more transparent. When I listen to a track that has sounds of rain falling on the ground, I can hear more nuances with water hitting the ground. Sounds more realistic with the HE-560 due to the sounds being more defined(with more harmonics). Sundara is what I consider to have bolder or thicker articulation tones with less shades to the sounds in comparison. This is hair pulling differences, and you'd have to compare side by side to notice this subtality. This boldness of Sundara creates a impression of clarity and forwardness in a way although lower treble isn't really forward, sounds pretty balanced in the treble area. I don't find Sundara too bright or dark, but quite articulate.

As for the mids, it's just relative differences, I'm sure most will not really notice it unless have something to compare with or used to more mid lifted signature.

I will say the genres the Sundara does well in are electronic and modern stuff like pop.

 

[czy6412]

I absouletly agree. Measurements are important as ‘one’ of objective measures. It may not tell 100 percent of headphones. But I believe it tells at least 80 percent about it, if it is done correctly.

Well measures cannot tell resolution and soundstage and I believe that is more than 20%

 

[SilverEars]

Sundara is a pretty much 'uncolored' headphone. Once my ears adapt, I prefer ether c flow sounds, but I need at least 10 mins (similar to what Tyll says about aeon flow open).

Yeah, it doesn't have a noticeable colored characteristic. This is probably why it's so difficult to analyze. We can describe characters easier if it has character. LOL.

 

[TheoS53]

HE-560 is more transparent. When I listen to a track that has sounds of rain falling on the ground, I can hear more nuances with water hitting the ground. Sounds more realistic with the HE-560 due to the sounds being more defined(with more harmonics). Sundara is what I consider to have bolder or thicker articulation tones with less shades to the sounds in comparison. This is hair pulling differences, and you'd have to compare side by side to notice this subtality.

Just be sure to properly volume-match when making such comparison, as many "night and day" differences simply vanish once we remove volume imbalance as yet another variable.

 

[Hi-Fi-Apricity]

From what im reading here about a brighter sound and snappy articulation is it safe to say the Sundara has an Estat-esque sound? Possibly attributed to the much thinner diaphragm? (Generally speaking)

 

[SilverEars]

HE-560 or Sundara for rock music?

Definitely the HE-560. Sundara doesn't perform that well for distortion guitar rock. My reference is Smashing Pumpkins Siamese Dreams album, which the distinctness in sounds differs for headphone setups.

What kind of rock around you referring to? What type of rock do you listen to, and can you list out the rock bands you listen to most?