[Paddy]

Picked up my Sundaras a couple of days ago. Not sure how the other Kiwi here got his for 700, looks like I missed a trick. Had an issue with the left channel initially, but worked fine when I took them back to the shop. Had to go there anyway for an extension cable as I'd forgotten it's ridiculously short.

First impressions are very good, seems they shade my Nighthawks and Z7s once hooked up to the Black Cube Linear fed by an Onkyo NS6170 streamer, if not for comfort.

Will post some further impressions and pics once I've run them in a bit.

Minidisc.com.au have them for $699 though once I went to the check out and included shipping etc the price dropped to $659 which worked out around $710 NZ so I saved around $100. I should get them delivered in a couple of days. Hopefully there are no issues with them.

 

[yaby1979]

With regard to the Sundara vs. HE-560, and even though I prefer the Sundara, the HE-560 is a capable headphone that checks many of the same boxes, so I can see why opinions would be divergent about which one was better. [edit] I advised someone else earlier in this thread to listen to both if they wanted to decide between them.[/edit]

With regard to the chain, I don't agree: the Sundara and HE-560 are very similar in execution and so you'd expect to compare them on the same chain.

The Sundara Can be used with portable devices as many on here do. The 560's cant. That for me and many Sundara owners is the big difference .

 

[EternalChampion]

First impressions are very good, seems they shade my Nighthawks and Z7s once hooked up to the Black Cube Linear fed by an Onkyo NS6170 streamer, if not for comfort.

Will post some further impressions and pics once I've run them in a bit.

I can't wait for your comparison to the Sony Z7 once your burn them in. But right out of the box, can you tell us in which areas you find them superior to the Sony and whether you consider them to be a complementary headphone and why?

What matters the most to know:

1) Bass quantity and sub-bass extension.
2) Are they more transparent and airy?

Thank you sir.

 

[Anaz]

The Sundara Can be used with portable devices as many on here do. The 560's cant. That for me and many Sundara owners is the big difference .

The Sundara from my iPhone (I’m assuming “portable device” is a mobile phone) doesn’t sound as good as it does hooked up to an amp. And on an amp, the Sundara requires a volume setting comparable to an HD 6XX. So yes, the Sundara can be driven from a phone, but ideally you want more power.

 

[Hedonism]

Absolutely stunning for orchestral. A weightier (relative to HD800) smooth sound with all instruments sounding tonally correct to my ear, but retains the absolutely open, airy soundstage with great depth. Macrodynamics are very nice when properly amped. I actually prefer my SS amp (Gilmore Lite mk2) over the CTH for a cleaner, punchier type of sound.

For classic rock, funk/soul, blues/vocal jazz, ambient/trip-hop, I prefer the denser, more upfront and intimate sound of the AFO so far. Vocals are still too recessed for me to properly enjoy those genres on the Sundara.

For jazz, I enjoy both equally for different reasons.

We'll see how the Sundara changes as it is still not burned in.

 

[yaby1979]

The Sundara from my iPhone (I’m assuming “portable device” is a mobile phone) doesn’t sound as good as it does hooked up to an amp. And on an amp, the Sundara requires a volume setting comparable to an HD 6XX. So yes, the Sundara can be driven from a phone, but ideally you want more power.

Don't know what kind of iPhone you have but the 6s plus With a Headphone Jack that has the 3 Cirrus DAC architecture drives my Sundara louder than I or most people would listen. The 7 and newer without the jack don't have the same DAC/amp circuit. The DAC is in the little headphone dongle. Also Portable device doesn't necessarily mean a phone. Many manufacturers including Hifiman make portable music devices. The Portable SONY NW-WM1Z Hi-Res Walkman is an Incredible Portable device but a little expensive. I think the msrp is around $3200 but they can be found around $2000. Portable can mean a lot more than mobile devices .

 

[Tobes]

Used to HE-6 / HE-4 ? ====> Sundara sounds less clear, muffled, rolled-off, w smaller soundstage.

I sold my HE6 after getting the Utopia, but thought it might be fun to get another lowish price planar to play with.
Does the 'muffled' impression with Sundara persist when not making direct comparison to the HE6? (which I always found to have excess of treble - but quite good clarity and detail).
For instance, if I compared the HE6 to the HD600 the latter sounded muffled. However in longer term listening (without direct comparison) the HD600 sounded quite balanced and satisfying - sometimes I forgot which headphone I was listening to (of course HE6 had far deeper bass and more expansive soundstage).
FWIW the Utopia made the HE6 sound kind of vague and muffled - and did this while sounding more balanced and less bright.

 

[SilverEars]

I sold my HE6 after getting the Utopia, but thought it might be fun to get another lowish price planar to play with.
Does the 'muffled' impression with Sundara persist when not making direct comparison to the HE6? (which I always found to have excess of treble - but quite good clarity and detail).
For instance, if I compared the HE6 to the HD600 the latter sounded muffled. However in longer term listening (without direct comparison) the HD600 sounded quite balanced and satisfying - sometimes I forgot which headphone I was listening to (of course HE6 had far deeper bass and more expansive soundstage).
FWIW the Utopia made the HE6 sound kind of vague and muffled - and did this while sounding more balanced and less bright.

I'm on the same boat. Maybe not exactly muffled, but definately lacks a bit of articulation on certain tracks that vocals come off recessed, and the degree can be greater for rock tracks with lots going on for the ones vocals are pulled a bit back. Other than that, it's quite clear of a headphone, a bit track dependent on the vocals, depending on where the most energy of the vocals are. Utopia tend to be a bit mid forward in comparison.

Definately more spacious sounding than HE6 as I recall it a bit on the intimate side with vocals that popped forward.

If I could get Focal Clear for the same price as Sundara, that would do it, but it's 3 times the price.

This one won't sound generally vague. Only the recession of mids with certain tracks with vocals, and it is quite clear sounding other than that.

 

[Anaz]

Is the Sundara's mid section recessed or is it neutral?

Several people (myself included) have stated or implied that the mids on the Sundara are recessed, but are they? As far as I know "recessed mids" generally implies that the mid-section is less than neutral and lacks volume and power relative to treble and bass - an example of recessed mids would be vocals and guitars sounding as if they were behind the orchestra. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not an expert. After burn in of around 60 hours, I do not find guitars or vocals to be behind other instruments. It depends on the song, but generally guitars and vocals are either front and center or they are inline with other instruments. I don't know what a sound engineer intended, so I can't draw an absolute conclusion, but I'm hypothesizing that the Sundara's mid section is neutral and balanced rather than recessed. What are other opinions on this?

 

[TheoS53]

Guys, regarding whether or not the mids are recessed, this is exactly why we need measurements in the first place.
Different people have given contradictory answers thus far, which just goes to show that "witness testimony" can be quite unreliable. It's not a matter of anyone lying about it, but rather that each person could come from a different perspective as their ears would've acclimated to whatever gear they already have. Here are the measurements posted by innerfidelity.com
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...-open-planar-magnetic-headphones-measurements

Also look towards the bottom of that page to get your answers regarding how much power is required. That's almost the same voltage needed as the HD 650...which goes to show that you should look at a can's sensitivity combined with the impedance figure rather than just the impedance figure to realise how much power is required to drive them properly

 

[SilverEars]

Guys, regarding whether or not the mids are recessed, this is exactly why we need measurements in the first place.
Different people have given contradictory answers thus far, which just goes to show that "witness testimony" can be quite unreliable. It's not a matter of anyone lying about it, but rather that each person could come from a different perspective as their ears would've acclimated to whatever gear they already have. Here are the measurements posted by innerfidelity.com
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...-open-planar-magnetic-headphones-measurements

Also look towards the bottom of that page to get your answers regarding how much power is required. That's almost the same voltage needed as the HD 650...which goes to show that you should look at a can's sensitivity combined with the impedance figure rather than just the impedance figure to realise how much power is required to drive them properly

The differences are in power required to reach 90 dB

HD650: Power Needed for 90dBSPL 0.13 mW
Sundara: Power Needed for 90dBSPL 0.97 mW

It takes Sundara 7-8 times the power

HD650 is pretty easy to drive despite how big the impedance is. Impedance just reduces amp's power delivery capability.

 

[thighmaster69]

Anyone tried padrolling with the Sundara?

 

[Tobes]

The differences are in power required to reach 90 dB

HD650: Power Needed for 90dBSPL 0.13 mW
Sundara: Power Needed for 90dBSPL 0.97 mW

It takes Sundara 7-8 times the power

HD650 is pretty easy to drive despite how big the impedance is. Impedance just reduces amp's power delivery capability.

The power requirement of the hd650 and Sundara can be deceptive because of the impedance differences.
Voltage sensitivity of the two is almost the same. I'd expect these to reqiure pretty similar 'volume' settings until current/voltage limitations kicked in for the particular device.

 

[Dystasia]

Is this a good cable for the Sundara?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J9WGDQO/

 

[franz12]

Don't know what kind of iPhone you have but the 6s plus With a Headphone Jack that has the 3 Cirrus DAC architecture drives my Sundara louder than I or most people would listen. The 7 and newer without the jack don't have the same DAC/amp circuit. The DAC is in the little headphone dongle. Also Portable device doesn't necessarily mean a phone. Many manufacturers including Hifiman make portable music devices. The Portable SONY NW-WM1Z Hi-Res Walkman is an Incredible Portable device but a little expensive. I think the msrp is around $3200 but they can be found around $2000. Portable can mean a lot more than mobile devices .

Even used sony priced at $2000 is rip-off for a person who can afford $500 headphone. IMO, it is irreponsible to recommend $2000 portable player to a general consumer, which will be less valueable than a used condom in 10 years. Frankly, I can’t think of any single sony products which are of good value.
More broadly speaking, the company is failing. I can’t think of any single successful products from sony in the last few decades other than playstations.

Rather than dropping $2000 on the sony player, buy Clear around $1200 and drive it from your iphone. I am pretty sure it will sound much better and keep your wallet healthy.