[zodiac1234]

Well in terms of soundstage Sundara destroys Aeon. BTW I do prefer Sundara to EditionX and HE1000 but I am a tonality guy so YMMV.

Very intersting to hear your opinion....so I am not the only one
I did feel that I preferred its sonics to both Edition X - which is way too dark for my taste, and HE1000v2, altough - in terms of low frequency response is without
equal - but sounds less balanced at higher octaves (just my opinion).

Sundara still sounds ok from a less-than-stellar-company electronics.
HE1000v2 really needs an amp in its own class to really shine.

Sundara still has that shelf-like low pass response - very much like the Audezes, which gets it to the darker side of things. Interesting to see some measurements.

I don't hear this with the HE1000v2's.
Against the Edition X, Sundara has a little more output, a little more energy on top, but just as smooth and laidback.

Any ideas?

 

[zodiac1234]

M O R E - O N - T H E - S U N D A R A

Build quality is an improvement from the older units:
+ Metal cans,
+ Excellent 3.5 stereo female connectors on the cups, mono-connected.
+ Fairly ok cable, (I felt) the cable is dark sounding.
Upgrading it to (brighter) cables improves overall balance.
+ Excellent back grill. Very airy and open, presenting no impediment for the sonic waves.

- Stock Focus cushions are too small for my ears, and darker sounding than the other pads,
- Almost no lateral offset or "play" in the cups due to the one piece construction of the metallic headband.
Therefore cups do not "sit" perfectly on my ears.
This one-piece design is probably to save money (no disrespect).
Better to have another design that would allow for more lateral adjustments on different
heads / ears. It is after all a 500 dollar pair of cans.

Hifiman says its efficiency is raised to allow portable drive. I (just my opinion - no disrespect) honestly do not think it is suitable for portable use:

- It is an acoustically very open design. Not even dampening materials on the back or around the driver.
- Outdoors I hear everything around me that disturb the music.
- They are quite big and heavy (for portable use).
- Efficiency is still too low for portable use, i had to run my phone volume on 60 - 90 to get sound.
- 32 ohms resistive impedance, along with higher drive requirements drains your phone batteries quickly.

 

[bowei006]

Got the Sundara in a few days ago. Wonderful set of cans. I was "OK" with the 400i and the 560s but there were some things about them that made me drop focus on them. That is until I got to listen to the Sundara. Wow.

The one word I can use to describe them is "RAW". From the build to the sound.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Got the Sundara in a few days ago. Wonderful set of cans. I was "OK" with the 400i and the 560s but there were some things about them that made me drop focus on them. That is until I got to listen to the Sundara. Wow.

The one word I can use to describe them is "RAW". From the build to the sound.

Some impressions would be great!

 

[Anaz]

Got the Sundara in a few days ago. Wonderful set of cans. I was "OK" with the 400i and the 560s but there were some things about them that made me drop focus on them. That is until I got to listen to the Sundara. Wow.

The one word I can use to describe them is "RAW". From the build to the sound.

Some impressions would be great!

Yes, a comparison to the 400i and 560 would be great. The yolk on my 560 broke and I'm looking for an alternative planar - if the Sundara is as good as the 560 I'll eat my words and will buy another Hifiman product

 

[zodiac1234]

Yes, a comparison to the 400i and 560 would be great. The yolk on my 560 broke and I'm looking for an alternative planar - if the Sundara
is as good as the 560 I'll eat my words and will buy another Hifiman product

Never listened to a HD400i but I most certainly believe Sundara (in my opinion) is way more articulate and clear than HE-500.
It's soundstage, is actually not wider but deeper than 500 - reminiscent of the late HE-6 RIP.
You would here much more detail present in that soundstage compared to HD500.
It presents more air atound the instruments, giving a sense of almost not having HPs on.
HD560 sounds less airy and resolving.

Compared to the much more expensive HPs . It feels as though it has a slightly low pass shelf-response. (I am sure you would disagree if you're used to the 500).

HE-6 sounds more open and clear, but slightly over-emphesized in the highs and a little less forgiving and "lighter".

LCD-3 sounds darker, more pleasant and less resolving (just my opinion).

Sundara is very liquid. The HE-6 has a percieved reduction in body and less bloom to that of Sundara - again my opinion.

If you order from Hifiman directly, you have a 30 day money back guarantee.

Then you can test it for your self, with your equipment and your ears.

Good luck.

 

[bowei006]

Some impressions would be great!

Yes, a comparison to the 400i and 560 would be great. The yolk on my 560 broke and I'm looking for an alternative planar - if the Sundara is as good as the 560 I'll eat my words and will buy another Hifiman product

Just warning the two of you that the last time I had the 400i or 400S was a while back. I heard the 560 for a brief demo only. The reviews for the three are here. FYI Guru has permission from HF to post links.
http://headphone.guru/hifiman-he-400i/
http://headphone.guru/hifiman-he-400s-review/
http://headphone.guru/hifiman-he560-planar-headphone/2/

The primary difference between the 400i (from memory) was that the 400i was not as universally adaptable in sound sig. It was finicky with source material and had a tendancy to sound bad if you didn't meet the requirements of source components or music type. I recall being wowed by the 400i with its breathtaking airy mids (that sometimes would get a bit hot) and also its inability to work well with modern pop/rap/rock and a mediocre to weak low-freq. The 560 was not a favorite of mine due to it being too bright and fatiguing for my ears. The 560 was indeed a audiophily superior (in the sense of how it seperates components and brings sound to the user) product with a fast and forward mid section. But I had problems with that as it was indeed TOO forward for me.

The Sundara feels more like a successor from the good ole HE5/HE6 days (which in my opinion had a much more do-it-all balanced sound sig compared to the 560). It comes at you with a incredibly balanced sound signature in how well it works with different music genres. I think the primary reason for this is its improved low-freq response (it now has a 'good' bass) and fine tuned mid section. An issue with using non-dynamic drivers such that we get to planars for headphones or Balanced Armature I've found in my experiene is that initial units/tunage using those technologies will produce highly seperated sounds that audiophiles look for, but lose out on the balance that dynamic drivers have brought to the game for generations. Dynamic drivers are always good for giving a very full experience with everything coming together, but lacking in its ability to seperate out components (in general, obviously the HD800 don't have issues with this).

The HE400i and 560 for me is almost this earlier tunage where we get some nice seperation of components and lots of people did like them as different audiophiles like different things. I'm a person that prefers a balanced sound that makes the music come alive, how well instruments or vocals are seperated/presented/coloring is second as a balanced sound is what is presented better in my opinion. The Sundara feels like a culmination of these past efforts. It now does the job of not only providing a top notch performance in seperating out individuals BUT ALSO, in its general sound signature just being insanely adaptible to anything you throw at it.

IT's also a fairly revealing can It has picked apart some 'lesser' studio masterings. Background noise floor and general audio engineering failures are more apparent with this can. On tracks I've listened to countless times on countless cans, and I would notice minor things in the mastering with the Sundara.

That's as much detail I have on it for now. Please hold for when the official review is posted on Guru. The above is just a quickly typed out impression of thoughts as they came to me at my keyboard. So you'll get lots of random ideas that lead somewhere and then trail off haha.



But I will say this just now. I am a huge fan of the Sundara. It has wowed the socks off of me for the price. And I've heard A LOT of headphones. Sure, disregarding price, there are better. But this is $499 for one compared to four digits.

My favorite thing about the Sundara would absolutely be its universally adaptive sound. It packs all the benefits a dynamic driver brings while also offering the insane sound pressure and fast attack that a planar can do.

Sennheiser had a new HD660S I gave a listen to for the same price. Yeah, Sundara's anyday.

 

[zodiac1234]

I agree.
A little surprised that I keep comparing its sonics to HPs costing three times more and then some.

It sounds very balanced and tonally neutral, yet deep, smooth, detailed (well not enough for my taste anyway - but thats just me).

I am sitting right now listening to Wiiliam Aura - Coral Blue....completely hypnotized by the depth of that soundstage, ripe yet detailed and utterly effortless presentation of the Sundara.

 

[SBranson]

Don't make me want this headphone!!!! I have the HE560 and the Edition X v2 and if this threads the needle between these two...

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Never listened to a HD400i but I most certainly believe Sundara (in my opinion) is way more articulate and clear than HE-500.
It's soundstage, is actually not wider but deeper than 500 - reminiscent of the late HE-6 RIP.
You would here much more detail present in that soundstage compared to HD500.
It presents more air atound the instruments, giving a sense of almost not having HPs on.
HD560 sounds less airy and resolving.

Compared to the much more expensive HPs . It feels as though it has a slightly low pass shelf-response. (I am sure you would disagree if you're used to the 500).

HE-6 sounds more open and clear, but slightly over-emphesized in the highs and a little less forgiving and "lighter".

LCD-3 sounds darker, more pleasant and less resolving (just my opinion).

Sundara is very liquid. The HE-6 has a percieved reduction in body and less bloom to that of Sundara - again my opinion.

If you order from Hifiman directly, you have a 30 day money back guarantee.

Then you can test it for your self, with your equipment and your ears.

Good luck.

What does low pass shelf response mean?

 

[zodiac1234]

Don't make me want this headphone!!!! I have the HE560 and the Edition X v2 and if this threads the needle between these two...

------------------------------------------------------------
Have a listen, and decide for yourself.
I have 5 Hifiman cans alone

 

[bowei006]

Don't make me want this headphone!!!! I have the HE560 and the Edition X v2 and if this threads the needle between these two...

You should be fine as you already have the Edition X V2

I heard them (Edition X) at CanJam but was also talking to Hifiman at the same time. Excellent headphones for sure. It was a noisy room and I didn't have long with both but I believe they are, in general, superior to the Sundara. Our review of it is here:
http://headphone.guru/hifiman-edition-x-v2-planar-magnetic-headphones/

Lots of $500 headphones out there. So far, Sundara is my favorite. More so than HD650/660S, Alpha Dogs, Campfire Audio Cascade, ADV Alpha or the competetive offerings from Beyer. I have not heard the new offerings from FOSTEX that lots of people like so can't compare those.

 

[SilverEars]

What does low pass shelf response mean?

Probably means something like a low shelf filter. Meaning bass is elevated. Probably mean he hears more bass in comparison.

 

[franz12]

You should be fine as you already have the Edition X V2

I heard them (Edition X) at CanJam but was also talking to Hifiman at the same time. Excellent headphones for sure. It was a noisy room and I didn't have long with both but I believe they are, in general, superior to the Sundara. Our review of it is here:
http://headphone.guru/hifiman-edition-x-v2-planar-magnetic-headphones/

Lots of $500 headphones out there. So far, Sundara is my favorite. More so than HD650/660S, Alpha Dogs, Campfire Audio Cascade, ADV Alpha or the competetive offerings from Beyer. I have not heard the new offerings from FOSTEX that lots of people like so can't compare those.

I have not heard about Campfire Audio Cascade, but there is some hype going on, and I am curious about its sound. Could you shed some light on it by comparing it with Sundara?

 

[bowei006]

I have not heard about Campfire Audio Cascade, but there is some hype going on, and I am curious about its sound. Could you shed some light on it by comparing it with Sundara?

Not even close to similar cans. The Cascade is the definition of a warm and comfy can. We audiophiles like to define sound as either warm or cold. Well with the cascades, you can pretty much hear the warmth turn into fire. It's a great sounding can for sure but definately not neutral. It had a dark presentation with a slight mid recession and was also punchy and dynamic in the mids. But really the complete opposite of the Sundara which is light, airy and with a tendancy to reveal as opposed to hide.

I find the Cascade's to be an optimal high-end headphone for outside moving around usage almost. It's sound is comfortable and would not often be the first choice people go to for a sit down and close your eye in a dark room session. IT's the kind of sound that you want to have such that you know you are getting great sound while walking the streets of NY but also not 100% paying attention to it. It's closed, very comfortable, and its warm sound works with pretty much all genre. Throw it on and go basically. It's....fairly compact enough to do so as well. Ken (founder of Campfire and ALO) handed me a set he was listening to personally so I was assured that they have been 'burnt in' as opposed to being fresh from the box.

I believe we at Guru are doing a review on them as well. Stay posted.