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Hifiman Sundara (HE400i upgraded, around $500)

Discussion in 'Headphones (full-size)' started by mtoc, Sep 16, 2017.
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  1. jamieei
    Any gaming experiences with the Sundara?
  2. zodiac1234
    I own several Hifiman HPs and I have listened to countless numbers of them since they were introduced.

    The HE1000, HE1000V2, Edition X they are all fantastic headphones, but they are not without faults.

    Planar magnetic units with large diaphragms, although capable of producing a very dynamic, extended, (slightly ripe and larger-than-life)
    low-frequency response, are unfortunately incapable of extending those qualities to mids and higher frequencies.

    Many technical experts have stated that controlling this very large, non circular diaphragm at midrange and higher frequencies become exceedingly difficult in a
    non-uniform magnetic field, which inevitably leads to break ups and unwanted modal resonances that I believe are quite audible at midrange and above.

    I respect everyone else's opinion and if you feel that indeed it is not so, that's fine. But I cannot say that these shortcomings are not audible.

    Some of the technical experts that I have talked to also mentioned that this is one of the reasons why Hifiman new reference HP (SUSVARA) is circular, and
    smaller in size, and employ higher quality magnetic circuit assembly.

    Again, if you feel it is not so - that's fine - I respect your opinion.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
    ernzo likes this.
  3. czy6412
    Well, I did not feel Audeze headphones have a higher quality mid and highs comparing to Hifiman headphones.
    seanwee, Hifiearspeakers and yaby1979 like this.
  4. franz12
    You comments make me very curious.
    You are talking about faults in mids and higher frequences in HEK and HEX. But we don't know what they are. Can you clarify what kinds of faults you are talking about? Just making vague statements like some faults does not add anything.
    Hifiearspeakers likes this.
  5. zodiac1234
    Absolutely right, and there is a reason for it.

    But I was referring to the observation that those Hifimans HPs that are based on smaller, circular membranes
    sound a little more coherent and balanced across the spectrum than their reference siblings, and why some of the experts that I have talked to feel might be the reason.

    Just think:
    If the large oval-shaped membrane is indeed superior, why is it that the new Hifiman reference (SUSVARA) is smaller in size and circular?
  6. zodiac1234
    As I said, Headphone HiFi listening is a very personal experience and highly dependent on the transfer curve of the listener's ear.
    This thread is about the truly wonderful Hifiman Sundara, not HE1000 and its iterations.

    Nevertheless, I can mention that I feel the dynamism, the extension, the clarity and realism HE1000 and HE1000 V2 create at lower f's is lacking in mids and highs.
    They sound less clear, more congested, slightly more confusing, less sharp and less focused on transient edges in the mids and highs, that cause loss of sound-stage
    clarity and pinpoint accuracy of the images created.

    Again, that is what I hear. You are certainly entitled to think otherwise.
    seanwee and yaby1979 like this.
  7. Hifiearspeakers
    Ridiculous logic here. I could say the same thing. If circular is better, then why did Hifiman make the HEX and HEK with larger, asymmetrical membranes that cost way more than their cheaper predecessors like the he400i, 400s, he560, and on and on and on...
  8. Hifiearspeakers
    Loss of soundstage compared to Sundara and their cheaper cousins? Come on man, you’re just making stuff up now. I own the HEK V2 and the Sennheiser 800S. The only headphone that I’ve ever heard that gets close to the Sennheiser 800/800S soundstage is the HEK. Whatever you think you’re hearing, the ONE criticism that no one has ever thrown at the HEK is that it has a small soundstage.
  9. zodiac1234
    I own HE1000V2, Edition X, HE-4, HE-6, and Sundara myself.
    I am not sharing my experiences to please you, I am writing them to describe what I heard and hear.

    You feel it is not so, that is perfectly fine. Do not be disrespectful and insulting.
    funkforfood likes this.
  10. Hifiearspeakers
    I’m not being disrespectful, I am telling the truth. And there are thousands on here that will say the same thing. You can prefer whatever headphone you want, but you don’t get to make stuff up on a public forum and not get called out on it.
  11. zodiac1234
    You have a very strange attitude.

    You are telling the truth? According to you?

    We are sharing experiences here, and there is no need for accusing others of "making stuff up", there is no need for it here.

    This forum exists to promote discussions and different opinions, to learn from others. You are obviously incapable of accepting that others might have
    other opinions.
    It sounds like you do not want to hear any criticism on something you have spent 3000 USD on. You consider it a direct insult to you.

    Listen: this type of attitude does not belong in an open forum.
    soal likes this.
  12. Hifiearspeakers
    You’re wrong again. I love criticism. That’s how we all learn. But if I hear BS, then I’m calling you out on it. The Sennheiser 800/800S is known for its massive soundstage. That is objectively true. That doesn’t mean you have to like it, but it is still a true statement. So if some, Johnny-come-lately, comes in here bashing the 800/800S soundstage, what do you think is going to happen? And I’m telling you that whether you like the HEK or not, it doesn’t change the fact that it is also known to have one of the larger soundstages for headphones. Whether you like a headphone or not is subjective and debatable. But you don’t get to call a white headphone black and not get called out for it.
  13. franz12
    I can't comment on HEX and HEK. But I think your comments that Hifiman produced Sundara to please Tyll is totally ungrounded. He didn't say he favors laid-back treble response, but he said he doesn't like irregular peaks in lower treble/upper mids. And who like irregular peaks in those regions? I don't think his such preference is far from general public.

    Also, if he likes laid-back treble response, he should favor hd650 over hd600 and lcd4 over utopia, but it was opposite. In the past few months, he kicked out all LCDs due to the rolled-off treble, though he recently brought lcd2c back to his wof.
    seanwee likes this.
  14. zodiac1234
    Really? Are you that certain? I have heard him say it on multiple occasions.

    Just a quick search on google:

    Fast forward to 08:15 and hear what he has to say...
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  15. franz12
    So did he put hd650 in his wof instead of hd600? Or lcd4 over utopia? Or zmf atticus/eikon over ether c flow/ether c? So Hifiman produced Sundara to please Tyll? Total nonsense.
    Hifiearspeakers likes this.
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