Hifiman Sundara (HE400i upgraded, around $500)
May 2, 2023 at 10:25 PM Post #4,097 of 4,255
Your review falls right in line with my general headphones experience, comparing dynamic headphone with the Sundara, except I don't have the exact same amps, which I'm sure your high end amps are all superb for the Sundara. Once I heard the Sundara with my speaker power amp, I felt like this combination is the "Goldilocks" -tuned combo. There are headphones that are thick and syrupy, and there are those with very dry, clinical sound. My system sits right on the goldilocks peak of what I would call the "tuning bell curve." It is present, enveloping, and full sounding, without sounding uncontrolled, slow, and unclear. It seems based on your review, the HE-500 is also very close to that peak, perhaps erring slightly on the smooth/thick/underdamped side of tuning. What I appreciate about the HE-500's FR, compared to the Sundara, is that it is linear straight down to 20hz, whereas the Sundara does suffer a gentle rolloff, which can be easily fixed with EQ.

Comparing either of these with dynamic headphones, especially in the lowest octave, the difference is very clear. There isn't one high-end dynamic headphone on the market today that can go as low as a Sundara without distorting heavily at high outputs. With a powerful enough amplifier, you can certainly test this. I had done this for the HE-400 (original) and the HE-560 (original). They go so deep and powerful without distortion, that these planars are simply untouched by any dynamic headphone...and it's not even close. If you try to get a Sennheiser to rumble as much as a Sundara, you will damage it, at high output. Fortunately, you won't get to the level where it would damage the dynamic can...because long before you even get there, the amount of distortion is enough to tell you to stop.
 
May 3, 2023 at 12:18 PM Post #4,098 of 4,255
Your review falls right in line with my general headphones experience, comparing dynamic headphone with the Sundara, except I don't have the exact same amps, which I'm sure your high end amps are all superb for the Sundara. Once I heard the Sundara with my speaker power amp, I felt like this combination is the "Goldilocks" -tuned combo. There are headphones that are thick and syrupy, and there are those with very dry, clinical sound. My system sits right on the goldilocks peak of what I would call the "tuning bell curve." It is present, enveloping, and full sounding, without sounding uncontrolled, slow, and unclear. It seems based on your review, the HE-500 is also very close to that peak, perhaps erring slightly on the smooth/thick/underdamped side of tuning. What I appreciate about the HE-500's FR, compared to the Sundara, is that it is linear straight down to 20hz, whereas the Sundara does suffer a gentle rolloff, which can be easily fixed with EQ.

Comparing either of these with dynamic headphones, especially in the lowest octave, the difference is very clear. There isn't one high-end dynamic headphone on the market today that can go as low as a Sundara without distorting heavily at high outputs. With a powerful enough amplifier, you can certainly test this. I had done this for the HE-400 (original) and the HE-560 (original). They go so deep and powerful without distortion, that these planars are simply untouched by any dynamic headphone...and it's not even close. If you try to get a Sennheiser to rumble as much as a Sundara, you will damage it, at high output. Fortunately, you won't get to the level where it would damage the dynamic can...because long before you even get there, the amount of distortion is enough to tell you to stop.

Very true! Sundara + power is magic :)
 
Jun 15, 2023 at 2:34 PM Post #4,099 of 4,255
Hi I'm thinking of buying HIfiman Sundara for a cottage in the woods, so as not to trash a home set of headphones plus DAC plus AMP.

And I'm wondering if for the holiday season a Macbook Air will be suitable to drive the Hifiman Sundar.

After the vacations, of course, at home they will be driven with Aurium Pathos, so here I have no doubts.

But will the Macbook Air be able to handle the Hifiman Sundara for that time?
 
Jun 15, 2023 at 4:09 PM Post #4,100 of 4,255
Hi I'm thinking of buying HIfiman Sundara for a cottage in the woods, so as not to trash a home set of headphones plus DAC plus AMP.

And I'm wondering if for the holiday season a Macbook Air will be suitable to drive the Hifiman Sundar.

After the vacations, of course, at home they will be driven with Aurium Pathos, so here I have no doubts.

But will the Macbook Air be able to handle the Hifiman Sundara for that time?
Absolutely, the Sundara can be powered off a potato if it had the right connection. They sound great out of my iMacs and PC.
 
Jun 18, 2023 at 6:53 AM Post #4,105 of 4,255
This has not been my experience at all. My m11 pro barely drives them, and the Sq is nowhere near that of the Jot2.

Do you mean a FiiO DAP? If so, it outputs 550mW via its balanced output, while Jotunheim2 into a similar load does 4W.
 
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Jun 18, 2023 at 7:00 AM Post #4,106 of 4,255
Comparing either of these with dynamic headphones, especially in the lowest octave, the difference is very clear. There isn't one high-end dynamic headphone on the market today that can go as low as a Sundara without distorting heavily at high outputs.

What about LCD-2C?

At the time, Tyll said it had the lowest bass distortion he had ever seen in any headphone.
 
Jun 18, 2023 at 1:05 PM Post #4,107 of 4,255
What about LCD-2C?

At the time, Tyll said it had the lowest bass distortion he had ever seen in any headphone.
I don't have experience with Audeze planars, and I wasn't comparing planar to planar. There are some planars that clearly don't have very low distortion in the lowest octaves, such as the Ananda. Sundara doesn't have the lowest distortion, either, if you look at the measurements of many planars. Audeze's offerings are quite good in this aspect as well. When it comes to dynamic drivers, however, they always do poorly in comparison. My ATH AD1000x has a massive 54mm driver. It should be able to push a lot of air, and Tyll's measurement shows that it has pretty low distortion below 40hz, relative to 98% of other dynamic headphones. Compared to the Sundara, however, the AD1000x is not even close, and that is audibly so. To get a dynamic driver to rumble as hard as a planar, I think you would have to take desktop speakers and seal them around your ears. lol

To get planars whose efficiency are rated between 89-94dB to audibly distort, you would have to pull a lot of power, which is probably why this aspect of these planars don't get mentioned much. People also don't do bass boost EQ much, because this would easily require their (already beefy) amp's output capacity to quadruple easily. I've tested that my Sundara can pull up to 9W from my Crown XLS 1502. Nine. Freaking. Watts! These are transient subbass slams, and of course you can only safely do this with a few tracks and movie scenes if you like to keep your hearing. It's very, very fun. These kinds of rumbles and thick slams would damage 99% of dynamic drivers.
 
Jun 18, 2023 at 1:46 PM Post #4,108 of 4,255
^ Awesome post :)
 
Jun 18, 2023 at 1:58 PM Post #4,109 of 4,255
I don't have experience with Audeze planars, and I wasn't comparing planar to planar. There are some planars that clearly don't have very low distortion in the lowest octaves, such as the Ananda. Sundara doesn't have the lowest distortion, either, if you look at the measurements of many planars. Audeze's offerings are quite good in this aspect as well. When it comes to dynamic drivers, however, they always do poorly in comparison. My ATH AD1000x has a massive 54mm driver. It should be able to push a lot of air, and Tyll's measurement shows that it has pretty low distortion below 40hz, relative to 98% of other dynamic headphones. Compared to the Sundara, however, the AD1000x is not even close, and that is audibly so. To get a dynamic driver to rumble as hard as a planar, I think you would have to take desktop speakers and seal them around your ears. lol

To get planars whose efficiency are rated between 89-94dB to audibly distort, you would have to pull a lot of power, which is probably why this aspect of these planars don't get mentioned much. People also don't do bass boost EQ much, because this would easily require their (already beefy) amp's output capacity to quadruple easily. I've tested that my Sundara can pull up to 9W from my Crown XLS 1502. Nine. Freaking. Watts! These are transient subbass slams, and of course you can only safely do this with a few tracks and movie scenes if you like to keep your hearing. It's very, very fun. These kinds of rumbles and thick slams would damage 99% of dynamic drivers.
I find the Sundara too sound a lot better from speaker taps
 
Jun 18, 2023 at 2:34 PM Post #4,110 of 4,255

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