[lapzoo]

Planars are interesting beasts. Though most (including Sundara) have low impedance values, they need power to be all that they can be (apologies to the US Army there). I know mine did not sound good with my Fiio Mont Blanc - basically, the same muddiness in many areas that you describe. So
i applied power. Moved to Schiit Magni 3, which was much better, then to overkill with Asgard 3, which is just right. Al muddiness gone, Sundara are sublime. Try more power before you sell off the Sundara.

Thanks a lot. I was worried the Sundaras might just not be for me. But reading all these amazing reviews and experiences from people on all hifi forums.. I really like feel like it must the amp. Now I can't wait for the K5 Pro to arrive...

 

[coletrain104]

You asked two questions.

Yes this model is planar

No, HFM is not leaving behind planar, in fact they make mostly planars and show no signs of stopping. Go to their site, go to headphones, 2 estats and about 28 planars.

I am not asking if they are planar, I am asking if they are ISODYNAMIC as opposed to ORTHODYNAMIC and whether Sundara is ISODYNAMIC. I would not ask such an ignorant question as you are suggesting

 

[ezduzit2500]

Thanks a lot. I was worried the Sundaras might just not be for me. But reading all these amazing reviews and experiences from people on all hifi forums.. I really like feel like it must the amp. Now I can't wait for the K5 Pro to arrive...
[/QUOTE
Planars require more current than dynamic headphones. Many amps are able to provide sufficient voltage but have trouble delivering current. Proper power makes a difference, IMO, and burn in. My Sundara sounded just "ok" out of the box, kind of 'closed in and bright' but after a few days of playing music and burn in with pink noise overnight they just 'opened up'. Like a switch was pulled. It was a 'wow' moment for me. Give them time, IMO.

 

[Matoriv]

Objective standpoint Topping E30+L30 stack is godlike and unbeatable. They are perfect.

Cool ok but the L30 isn’t out yet?

 

[yeboyi]

Cool ok but the L30 isn’t out yet?

Yes that's the downside. US people can just buy Schiit or JDS but we need to wait here in EU.

 

[chechu21]

The sundara have more bass quantity than he 400i? Thanks

 

[SkyZippr]

I am not asking if they are planar, I am asking if they are ISODYNAMIC as opposed to ORTHODYNAMIC and whether Sundara is ISODYNAMIC. I would not ask such an ignorant question as you are suggesting

Excuse me, but could you elaborate on the difference between isodynamic, orthodynamic, and planar? A quick Google search suggested the three are essentially the same.

 

[descloud]

Proper power makes a difference, IMO, and burn in. My Sundara sounded just "ok" out of the box, kind of 'closed in and bright' but after a few days of playing music and burn in with pink noise overnight they just 'opened up'.

The available power output of an amplifier is definitely a factor in making current-demanding headphones sound their intended tuning out of the box.

As for burn-in, all I can say is that I'm on the camp of not finding any solid evidence for headphone drivers changing sound after X number of hours playing sound out of the box. What I know is that our brain adjusts to sound, in ways that is still yet to be fully understood (disregarding known factors like hearing bias and placebo).

At least my perception of the HE-500 changed when doing comparison with another Hifiman model and the HD650.

I might visit a local store to compare the Sundara with the older Hifiman sound.

 

[bagwell359]

The available power output of an amplifier is definitely a factor in making current-demanding headphones sound their intended tuning out of the box.

As for burn-in, all I can say is that I'm on the camp of not finding any solid evidence for headphone drivers changing sound after X number of hours playing sound out of the box. What I know is that our brain adjusts to sound, in ways that is still yet to be fully understood (disregarding known factors like hearing bias and placebo).

At least my perception of the HE-500 changed when doing comparison with another Hifiman model and the HD650.

I might visit a local store to compare the Sundara with the older Hifiman sound.

Low impedance phones which planars tend to be run great on transistors. High impedance phones, such as the Senn HD-600 don't run so well on a number of transistors, preferring some tube amps. Every planar I've owned (> 10) runs great on my Rag 1, HD-600 runs better on the BH Crack then the Rag 1, which surprised me.

 

[bagwell359]

The available power output of an amplifier is definitely a factor in making current-demanding headphones sound their intended tuning out of the box.

As for burn-in, all I can say is that I'm on the camp of not finding any solid evidence for headphone drivers changing sound after X number of hours playing sound out of the box. What I know is that our brain adjusts to sound, in ways that is still yet to be fully understood (disregarding known factors like hearing bias and placebo).

At least my perception of the HE-500 changed when doing comparison with another Hifiman model and the HD650.

I might visit a local store to compare the Sundara with the older Hifiman sound.

IMO the HE-500 is a better headphone than the Sundara. Sundara holds a pretty good spot in the HFM line, the leader of the round form (as long as they don't build the HE-6se again) cans being made, but no match for the HE-6 and HE-500 - although both of them do well with mods and there isn't much to do with the Sundara, but pads and cables (required for all HFM cans I've owned or seen).

 

[coletrain104]

Excuse me, but could you elaborate on the difference between isodynamic, orthodynamic, and planar? A quick Google search suggested the three are essentially the same.

Sure, Isodynamic is a single sided magnet structure (for example, HE-400i have no magnets on the ear-side) while orthodynamic has magnets on both sides of the diaphragm. There are actually a few isodynamics out there including Aeon closed (probably open too), the old HE-4, HE-400i, and HE-560 off the top of my head. They are lighter due to reduced magnet structure. It also eliminates the reflections off the magnetic structure on whichever side doesn't have magnets.

 

[trellus]

Sure, Isodynamic is a single sided magnet structure (for example, HE-400i have no magnets on the ear-side) while orthodynamic has magnets on both sides of the diaphragm. There are actually a few isodynamics out there including Aeon closed (probably open too), the old HE-4, HE-400i, and HE-560 off the top of my head. They are lighter due to reduced magnet structure. It also eliminates the reflections off the magnetic structure on whichever side doesn't have magnets.

Pretty sure that they are not moving away from using magnets on both sides so much as from simplistic, symmetrical, dual-sided magnets, in favor of an asymmetrical design in which the magnet on one side is much smaller than the magnet on the other side, from what I recall from a recent interview with HiFiMAN's Dr. Fang Bian, and that this is even the case with the new budget planar, the DEVA, which has such an asymmetrical design.

Interview: HiFiMAN CEO discusses Sundara, Ananda, Arya headphone revisions, Shangri-La and more.

 

[ezduzit2500]

The available power output of an amplifier is definitely a factor in making current-demanding headphones sound their intended tuning out of the box.

As for burn-in, all I can say is that I'm on the camp of not finding any solid evidence for headphone drivers changing sound after X number of hours playing sound out of the box. What I know is that our brain adjusts to sound, in ways that is still yet to be fully understood (disregarding known factors like hearing bias and placebo).

At least my perception of the HE-500 changed when doing comparison with another Hifiman model and the HD650.

I might visit a local store to compare the Sundara with the older Hifiman sound.

I get what you've said as far as adjusting to the unique sound qualities of different cans. I've experienced burn in changes most in the first 3-10 days - with planars especially. Cool beans if that carries no weight with you though. There's room for all of us on this blue marble. Many times I say I should just listen to the music and leave all the technicalities alone - until something doesn't sound quite right. You know, first , then ....hehehe...

 

[coletrain104]

Pretty sure that they are not moving away from using magnets on both sides so much as from simplistic, symmetrical, dual-sided magnets, in favor of an asymmetrical design in which the magnet on one side is much smaller than the magnet on the other side, from what I recall from a recent interview with HiFiMAN's Dr. Fang Bian, and that this is even the case with the new budget planar, the DEVA, which has such an asymmetrical design.

Interview: HiFiMAN CEO discusses Sundara, Ananda, Arya headphone revisions, Shangri-La and more.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that! I didn't know DEVA was also asymmetrical design. Since this is their big, new tech that they market, maybe Sundara is the last isodynamic they will produce, at least for a while. I think Sundara is actually isodynamic, if I understand some online comments that I've seen now. Still no pics or users to confirm.

Edit: found a pic. They're isodynamic. Maybe the last new Hifiman design to do so? only time will tell

 

[bagwell359]

As for burn-in, all I can say is that I'm on the camp of not finding any solid evidence for headphone drivers changing sound after X number of hours playing sound out of the box. What I know is that our brain adjusts to sound, in ways that is still yet to be fully understood (disregarding known factors like hearing bias and placebo).

Dynamic woofers and sub woofers can show increased range of movement (the over dozen that I tested closely) - by a lot, which changes the sound as they "break-in" - louder and deeper. Take it from me, I used to build subwoofers (no vent, vented, dual vented, push/pull), and measured the heck out of them.

Makers of speakers with mylar drivers (basically planars) have recommended since the 1970's that a break-in period is needed.

It's true, that plugging in a new speaker/headphone that may have cost at the limit or beyond the limit of ones budget can, and listening to only that piece for 100 or 200 hours can change ones perception irrespective of any actual change.

I think when you continue to listen to other equipment one owns (I used two recently) in a serial fashion, and only the "new" piece every 10 hours of break-inieces it tends to mitigate any flights fancy re: the new equipment vs known standards vs break-in progress - if any. I'm using my example of the HE-6se, and I believe it was either 3 or 4 changes I found in break-in documented in the main thread here, ending around 90 hours, even though I listened up to 130 hours for any changes.

My prior experience with new Magnepans (I, II, 3.3), Martin-Logan (CLS IIz, Aerius-i) demonstrated break-in - except the 3.3 which didn't really change, maybe it was pre-broken in?