[JohnnyAppleseed]

If iem's are anything like speakers, the lack of damping will make the bass looser/boomier which will have the unintentional of effect decreasing the highs. Much like the difference between hybrids (tamer highs and bigger bass) and foamies (tighter bass and clearer highs).
 
Of course this is only a guess. It could sound awful.

 

[tinyman392]

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If iem's are anything like speakers, the lack of damping will make the bass looser/boomier which will have the unintentional of effect decreasing the highs. Much like the difference between hybrids (tamer highs and bigger bass) and foamies (tighter bass and clearer highs).
 
Of course this is only a guess. It could sound awful.

 
Actually, with most dampers on IEMs (the one's I've used and seen anyways), the dampers tend to dampen the midrange and treble.  I think this was part of Rin's investigation as well. 

 

[kyuuketsuki]

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Actually, with most dampers on IEMs (the one's I've used and seen anyways), the dampers tend to dampen the midrange and treble.  I think this was part of Rin's investigation as well. 

 
Yes, this is what I was thinking, which is why I'm thinking they would become brighter as a result. Granted, no matter what, the sound will change in some way. I made a guess based on how I know how dampeners work in IEMs. I could be wrong, though. But generally when I've added dampeners (like with my HJE900s) it tamed the highs at the very least. 

 

[JohnnyAppleseed]

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Actually, with most dampers on IEMs (the one's I've used and seen anyways), the dampers tend to dampen the midrange and treble.  I think this was part of Rin's investigation as well. 

 
Interesting.
 
When certain iem's are issued with a variety of filters, I find they usually only impact the bass which in turn affects the entire overall balance. At least the various companies point out that different filters affect bass in various ways. But i suppose they could be affecting the highs as well. I don't know. Maybe we are saying the same thing.
 
Either way, removing the filters should have a noticeable effect of some kind. Whether it's positive or not who knows...interesting topic.

 

[tinyman392]

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Interesting.
 
When certain iem's are issued with a variety of filters, I find they usually only impact the bass which in turn affects the entire overall balance. At least the various companies point out that different filters affect bass in various ways. But i suppose they could be affecting the highs as well. I don't know. Maybe we are saying the same thing.
 
Either way, removing the filters should have a noticeable effect of some kind. Whether it's positive or not who knows...interesting topic.

 
All the filters I've ever used on my IEMs have always impacted mainly the midrange (and maybe treble).  Knowles filters do the treble if I'm not mistaken, and maybe a bit of the upper midrange.  Phonak's do the midrange mainly, but the green ones to some treble as well.  Keep in mind, a decreased midrange can also sound like a perceived increased bass and treble.

 

[JohnnyAppleseed]

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All the filters I've ever used on my IEMs have always impacted mainly the midrange (and maybe treble).  Knowles filters do the treble if I'm not mistaken, and maybe a bit of the upper midrange.  Phonak's do the midrange mainly, but the green ones to some treble as well.  Keep in mind, a decreased midrange can also sound like a perceived increased bass and treble.

Excellent point. This makes sense. However, from a physics standpoint I believe only metals resonate at high frequencies so any foam-like materials should have a resonant frequency somewhere in the bass region. At least, this is how speakers and full size cans work. Iems might be a different animal.

 

[tinyman392]

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Excellent point. This makes sense. However, from a physics standpoint I believe only metals resonate at high frequencies so any foam-like materials should have a resonant frequency somewhere in the bass region. At least, this is how speakers and full size cans work. Iems might be a different animal.

 
There's more at play than just resonant frequencies...  There is a slight, and I mean slight (<1-2 dB) bump in the bass with the filters, the majority of the work is in the mids and treble.  The filters are designed and engineered for a specific purpose.  Their shape, size, and thickness, all play a roll into what they attenuate and how they function. 

 

[JohnnyAppleseed]

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There's more at play than just resonant frequencies...  There is a slight, and I mean slight (<1-2 dB) bump in the bass with the filters, the majority of the work is in the mids and treble.  The filters are designed and engineered for a specific purpose.  Their shape, size, and thickness, all play a roll into what they attenuate and how they function. 

 
Gotcha. In this case, i'm thinking removing the filter might make the re400's pretty darn strident. Hopefully, my pair stays intact and I dont lose the extras. This is a little concerning though.

 

[tigon_ridge]

You guys are tempting me to remove the filters...

 

[tinyman392]

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Gotcha. In this case, i'm thinking removing the filter might make the re400's pretty darn strident. Hopefully, my pair stays intact and I dont lose the extras. This is a little concerning though.

 
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You guys are tempting me to remove the filters...

 
If I remember correctly (not enough time to check Rin's blog), the removal of the filters will make the treble a little more peaky and strong. 

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

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That's just one person's opinion. lol With all due respect to Joker, he also rated the SM3 a 9.4, which I would rate a 7 at best. If I shop around enough I can probably find a $20 pair of buds that I will choose over the SM3. No disrespect to Earsonics or Joker at all, but I'm just pointing out that SQ is a very subjective thing.
 
Very late reply, I know.

 
If you collect say 100 opinions, you could find 25 which rate it a 6 and 75 which rate it a 9.5, so then there is something there to analyze, it could be a finicky IEM which excels in X and fails in Y, and 75% haven't learn to listen for Y, or it could be finicky to drive, or what have you.  Then again, if you collect 100 opinions on 128kbps MP3 versus FLAC, most likely 99% will say they sound the same, so opinion polling doesn't quite work in that sense!
 
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To be fair, SQ isn't really subjective as long as you know what is being qualified as an indicator of quality. Sound preference is.

 
As long you know exactly what's being qualified as quality, then yes.  For instance, how tight is the bass?  How much echo is there in the room?
 
 
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All reviewers that just listen are biased when trying to put a rating, whether price bias, group discussion, etc.


With measurements, you work wiith numbers and facts so you can actually do a better job of establishing an objective hierarchy. Problem is, all iems have their share of flaws and it can get to a point where it's hard to say which graphic flaw is worse or better.

Point of the matter, research and learn...

 
Numbers and facts don't lie like humans, so they are accurate, however I think they can still be biased if they don't measure everything and give a false picture, right?

 

[tigon_ridge]

These things have been in my ears for the last 6 hours. They're not nearly as comfortable as my ER4 which I literally listen to 24/7. These hurt, but they sound sooo good I don't wanna take them out... so I've been enduring the discomfort for the last couple hours. lol

 

[tigon_ridge]

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if you collect 100 opinions on 128kbps MP3 versus FLAC, most likely 99% will say they sound the same

Really?? Guess I must have golden ears, then. The difference for me is often subtle, but I definitely notice it.

 

[Sladeophile]

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These things have been in my ears for the last 6 hours. They're not nearly as comfortable as my ER4 which I literally listen to 24/7. These hurt, but they sound sooo good I don't wanna take them out... so I've been enduring the discomfort for the last couple hours. lol

That's odd, I can wear them all day with no discomfort at all.  Are you wearing them down or up?  Either way works for me really, and I usually go with down unless I am walking around.
 
BTW, fixed the filter, all is good.

 

[tigon_ridge]

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That's odd, I can wear them all day with no discomfort at all.  Are you wearing them down or up?  Either way works for me really, and I usually go with down unless I am walking around.
 
BTW, fixed the filter, all is good.

Over the ear. I don't go in deep, for fear that it might make the pain worse.