[MrHaelscheir]

Welcome to Page 320, the Great Measurements Page!

So this lovely thing is here:

It almost looks short like a Susvara until you fully lift it out.

I got these in black and silver:

Seems to indeed be of solid aluminum construction, probably CNC machined, which costs money.

The desktop setup so far:

The real reason I needed those stands:

The Arya Stealth originally sat to the right of the FiiO K9 Pro ESS on the included foam stand from the box. Here, they remain easy to access while staying out of the way of the screen.

For those who don't know, the HE1000se's driver mainly differs in its magnet array's front (ear-facing) side having less and perhaps more powerful magnets with much more space between them. The Arya Stealth compared to its predecessors and the non-se HE1000 line has the middle magnets being wide like on the rear magnet array while the earlier Aryas and non-se HE1000s just have a plain rectangle. The non-se HE1000s with their asymmetric magnet array have a similar number of magnets on that side, but thinner. For the HE1000se, the glint is from the actual magnets, your seeing the many traces behind and between them, while for the Arya Stealth, those glints are actually from the traces behind the gaps between the Stealth Magnets which I suppose are flat on their front, but curved on their sides.

I otherwise didn't notice much differences between the rear magnet arrays:

The left pad had a rather tight fit and was a pain to remove, whereby the inward pressure created these two divots around an inner protrusion on the plastic mounting frame that I would consider to be a defect, maybe a part from the injection molding sprue that hadn't been properly trimmed off.

The yokes probably do have less play than on the Arya Stealth, and probably less friction sounds when rotating them. The veneer which I'm pretty sure is real wood was rather nice to see in person, its at least looking and feeling more pleasant than when I last handled an HE1000se at the 2023 Toronto Audiofest. The clamp force does seem to be a bit lighter than the Arya Stealth's. I suppose when the Meze Elite's hybrid pads are cool, the initial feel is lighter than the Arya Stealth, but after a bit, they probably come to feel on par. The HE1000se when first put on is probably similar in clamp force to how the Meze Elite feels when first put on. Fresh pads definitely feel different from my Arya Stealth's three-months' (they saw much less use after receiving and EQing the Meze Elite) broken-in pads.

When handling them, they do technically feel more like $2k headphones rather than the $3.5k headphones they were discounted from, or only more venerable than my Arya Stealth by the difference from the $1.3k I got them for, and I felt less weary when having to manhandle that left pad.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

And for ease of navigation, here are the preliminary measurements in a separate post (see https://www.head-fi.org/threads/in-...c-headphones-frs-are-indeed-identical.970202/ and https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mez...eadphone-official-thread.959445/post-17743502 (post #5,152) for measurement methodology and other measurements to compare against including the Sennheiser HE-1):

2024-04-04 - Disclaimer: All of my REW distortion measurements posted between November 2023 (the acquisition of my MOTU M2 and the start of my "100 dB SPL" calibration methodology) and April 2024 are per my latest SPL calibration methodology and due to the cheap 11-month-old HT-80A SPL meter having actually been quite off at least after all that time are around 4 dB too high, so "100 dB SPL" would be closer to 96 dB SPL if my new SPL calibrator is to be trusted.

Magnitude and phase response:

Figure 1: HiFiMan HE1000se magnitude (red trace) and phase (green trace) response. No major peaks, which is good, though 6.6 kHz sticks out a bit at least due to the preceding dip. This sine sweep was the very first signal I played through this headphone, partly to debunk the existence of major HiFiMan "driver burn-in" that is not pad-related or psychological. I had used the headphones.com calculator to estimate how loud the HE1000se would play for the same amp volume setting if I measured 100 dB SPL for the Arya Stealth. As such, compared to the Arya Stealth measurement, this one has a -2 dB digital preamp applied for volume-matching. From my measurements, it seems like the that digital preamp wasn't actually needed, their actually already playing at very similar levels for the same amp volume. The HE1000se has a rounded "HiFiMan dip", and less driver resonance ripples in the midrange. Compare this smoothness to the Sennheiser HE-1 measurement shown in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mez...eadphone-official-thread.959445/post-17743502 (post #5,152) under the "2023-10-27 addendum".

Figure 2: HiFiMan Arya Stealth magnitude (green trace) and phase (purple trace) response. Prominence at 4.2 kHz along with a phase anomaly there, not as bad on the right channel. Both headphones for my ears have a shallow dip at 8.6 kHz where it can be deeper in some other headphones. Here, the HE1000se for my ears has a shallower dip at 13 kHz where the Arya Stealth has a sharp notch while at 17 kHz, the cases are reversed. The HE1000se seems to have less sub-bass, which is unfortunate, whether or not that will improve with the pads breaking in. The top octave levels are also a bit higher on the Arya Stealth.

Figure 3: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ magnitude (green trace) and phase (blue trace) response. This is my original preferred response as derived from EQing the Meze Elite toward the Harman target using the headphones.com GRAS measurements, EQing down treble peaks by ear toward equal loudness using sine sweeps and pink noise, and smoothing the response after acquiring in-ear microphones to produce measurements like the above; the un-smoothed EQed-by-ear response was wavy, but still had this general flat trend. The minimum-phase EQ corrected the phase response to appear as flat as shown. The 7.7 kHz, 13.7 kHz, and 17.7 kHz nulls are perhaps thanks to the driver damping much shallower than on most headphones, making it very easy to EQ them to be flat (measurably without much of a distortion penalty) to create a blank slate for EQing in the direction-variant nulls in binaural head-tracking.

Harmonic Distortion:

For the below distortion plots, the magnitude response is shown at the top in brown as the playback level the harmonic distortion components exist relative to. The dark brown trace is the noise floor. The black trace is the total harmonic distortion (THD) for the given frequency. The red trace is the second-order harmonic distortion plotted at its actual harmonic frequency rather than with its fundamental frequency. The orange trace is the third-order harmonic distortion in similar fashion. The rest are for higher-order harmonics. Even-order harmonics are potentially euphonic when audible, while the odd-order harmonics are more audible and more likely to be unpleasant when audible.

Figure 4: HiFiMan HE1000se distortion plot. So we already saw some slight tonal improvements in the frequency response within the upper midrange and treble, whereby we also do at least have upwards of 5 dB improved distortion performance compared to the Arya Stealth.

Figure 5: HiFiMan Arya Stealth distortion plot. Interesting dip in THD from around 100 Hz to 160 Hz.

Figure 6: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ distortion plot. As can be seen, the Meze Elite when EQed to my fine-tuned Harman-like target still reigns superior for bass distortion, though the HE1000se comes to compete a bit better in the midrange and treble except at the 4 kHz resonance. I do find it interesting that the HE1000se still has this 4 kHz distortion peak despite there being no corresponding peak or dip in the magnitude response.

Cumulative Spectral Decay (CSD):

When listening to transients, particularly as isolated by the sound file in http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Acustica-samples/Dirac.wav, at least when playing that single-sample impulse loud, I have found the raised decay components to be audible, whereby ideally for a high-end headphone, this should be clean without sacrificing transient sharpness. As for the below charts, we want the top of the frontmost blue region to be as low and flat as possible.

Figure 7: HiFiMan HE1000se CSD. The CSD is unfortunately not much better than on the Arya Stealth, its seeming to be a bit worse around 3.3 kHz.

Figure 8: HiFiMan Arya Stealth CSD.

Figure 9: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ CSD. After EQing the midrange and treble to similar levels, the decay levels become more comparable with both HiFiMans, whereby EQing the region after 4.4 kHz down may help those HiFiMans to exhibit a more comparable CSD. Now, my Jabra Elite 85h and Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT actually have the cleanest midrange and treble CSDs out of my headphones, but seemingly measurably at the expense of duller step responses and hence subjective transient sharpness due to all the damping within those closed-back designs. Also, there is a chance that these HiFiMans do have superior bass decay speed when EQed to the same bass quantity, but again, the Meze Elite's bass distortion is exceptional by comparison.

Group Delay:

Figure 10: HiFiMan HE1000se group delay. These HiFiMans have had the smoothest bass group delays out of the headphones I've measured, whether or not that contributes to their incisive character.

Figure 11: HiFiMan Arya Stealth group delay. Very similar, but with more ripplers from slightly steeper driver modes.

Figure 12: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ group delay. By default with the rear volume padding foam, the group delay in the upper midrange and treble was slightly cleaner, but it became indeed cleaner yet like so when holding a piece of acoustic foam in front of the driver grille to absorb radiated sound, whereby it may have indeed been external reflections that were contributing to this noise. This also improved the CSD measurement and should likely improve the same for the HiFiMans. Anyways, even after EQing the Meze Elite to measure as flat as I had made it in both magnitude and phase, the bass group delay still wasn't as smooth as on the HiFiMans. The rest of the group delay is otherwise better behaved, even around the 360 Hz driver mode which I had at least somewhat EQed flat.

Impulse and Step Response:

I had found that the step response as calculated from the integral of the impulse response (itself calculated from the Fourier transform of the sine sweep) seems like a decent objective measurement of "speed", "impact", and "transient sharpness", whereby one is looking for a fast rise with a sharp edge, some overshoot potentially contributing to a greater sense of incisiveness. For subjective transient sharpness, you can listen to http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Acustica-samples/Dirac.wav to better isolate the sound of the sharpest transient possible. In the below, the step response is shown in teal while the other trace is the impulse response that step response was integrated from. See https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/post-17850191 (post #2,738) for more comparisons, particularly with my "duller" lower-end dynamic headphones.

Figure 13: HiFiMan HE1000se impulse and step response. This headphone is indeed quite incisive at the start, having a large undershoot in the impulse response that creates a dip in the step response that may or may not contributed to a sense of sharpness, but maybe also a sense of transient dirtiness.

Figure 14: HiFiMan Arya Stealth impulse and step response. The first peak on the HE1000se's step response may be slightly higher. The HE1000se's impulse response noticeably (in measurement) decays around 200 us faster than the Arya Stealth's. The Arya Stealth with its 4.3 kHz resonance incurs more ripple at that frequency within the impulse and step response. Otherwise, the shallower slope toward zero is consistent with this headphone's having better sub-bass extension than the HE1000se at least with the latter's pads having not been broken in.

Figure 15: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ impulse and step response. With EQ, the Meze Elite can technically come to be just as fast in impulse response decay and step response sharpness, mind cleanly so.

Subjective Impressions:

Well, the subjective diminishing returns are about as much as with these objective measurements. With a reasonable volume-match, I am personally barely hearing any notable differences in "soundstage", "bigness", "openness", "detail", or imaging, or if ever I think I heard a difference, it is largely gone after going back to the previous headphone. As for imaging, if a trumpet in Mahler 5 sounds initially a bit forward and to the right, then up in front of the right of my forehead with one HiFiMan, it is also so with the other. Far-panned sounds are imaged right from the drivers for me, nothing extending far out without special effects having first been mixed into the recording. Rodrigo y Gabriela tracks with all their transients, imaging, and details, sound very similar on both. And I highly doubt that "burn-in" would fix that, especially when this default headphone imaging without crossfeed now sounds hideously distorted compared to the proper speaker imaging I can hear through my Genelec 8341As, and the improved clarity on top of that when simulating such with binaural head-tracking.

Anyways, this result is certainly more palatable after having paid only $2k as opposed to $3.5k for these beautiful cans. I already knew that when two headphones come to have a very similar frequency response, when volume matched, especially when the driver and earpad size are virtually the same, there will be barely any differences for me to notice. As such, the only thing for me to enjoy is knowledge of superior objective performance and the confidence in the sound being delivered with lower distortion or cleaner and un-dulled transients.

Otherwise, we shall see tomorrow how the Dekoni pads measure and whether they can regain some sub-bass and maybe even render the distortion and CSD more competitive. At least today's results technically showed the HE1000se coming close enough to the Meze Elite's performance while fulfilling the purpose of achieving that binaural head-tracking presentation with greater comfort and openness. The only thing that was stopping me from EQing the Arya Stealth to the same free-field EQ for neutral speakers in an anechoic chamber was my awareness of its inferior distortion performance.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

We can finally proceed to the final measurements including those of the four Dekoni pads.

The rationale for these measurements and their possible subjective correlates and what constitutes my ideals is covered in the preceding post.

For easier comparison of measurements, I recommend downloading the original .mdat file and viewing it in REW. You may need to adjust the scale limits to see exactly what I have shared here. The vertical limits are 0 dB to 110 dB SPL. The horizontal frequency limits are from 2 Hz to 96 kHz except for the distortion measurements which must start from 10 Hz. The group delay measurements are best displayed only from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, their vertical scale being from -6 ms to 21 ms. The impulse and step response measurements are viewed as percentages with a horizontal time scape from -0.0002 s to 0.005 s.

Magnitude and phase response:

In the below, I went ahead and plotted the response all the way from 2 Hz to 96 kHz as enabled by my using a 192 kHz sample rate for the measurements. Here, it seems like the FiiO K9 Pro ESS did have a specific filter enabling that ultrasonic content to get through, though we would also be running into my in-ear microphones' nonlinearities. Compared to in the previous post, these first two measurements were taken with a 4M length averaged across eight repetitions to reduce the noise floor; imagine having to sit still in perfect silence for 3 minutes per sweep and hope no one in the house disturbs the measurement. I also this time held a piece of acoustic foam to absorb the radiated sound and prevent external reflections from coming back, this indeed improving the cleanness of the group delay and CSD measurements.

Figure 1: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ magnitude (green trace) and phase (purple trace) response. Again, here, I have EQed this headphone to my Harman-like target to get the levels to a similar flatness as the HE1000se for a more fair distortion comparison.

Figure 2: HiFiMan HE1000se stock pads magnitude (purple trace) and phase (orange trace) response. The ultrasonic frequency response is included just for interest (e.g. the HE1000se here passes through a bit more ultrasonic content than the Meze Elite), whereby in practical listening, the content at least above 22 kHz would have been completely filtered out for proper audio reproduction in accordance with the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem.

Finally, we have the four Dekoni pads in order of decreasing bass extension. I had actually taken these measurements in reverse order, whereby it was the Sheepskin pads which I measured last and took an averaged measurement for, the three being of 4M length but without measurement averaging. Also, imagine spending an hour painstakingly switching out pads on a HiFiMan and taking measurements only to realize that that bizarre upper midrange boost was due to your having forgotten to disable your Meze Elite EQ profile, your having to redo everything.

These four pads were all measured with the same volume knob setting as for the stock pad measurement, whereby generally, there are meagre differences in volume. All four pads flatten the HE1000se's 2 dB bass tilt (as measured on my head with my ears at the canal entrance). They all likewise relax the 3 kHz to 7 kHz region which for some may improve the sense of cleanness of sound, by means also deepening the small 3.5 kHz and 5.5 kHz dips. The top octave peaks are only slightly relaxed. The top octave between these headphones otherwise mainly differs in the sharpness and depth of the nulls (which are consistent with my HRTF measurement for a sound source panned 90 degrees to the left and firing directly toward my left ear).

Figure 3: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads magnitude (red trace) and phase (green trace) response. Firstly, these pads can indeed lift the "HiFiMan dip" a bit, these Elite Sheepskin pads doing so to the greatest extent, its being an outlier there compared to the other pads including the stock pads. These pads also have the greatest ripple between 3 kHz to 8 kHz thanks to the greater internal reflections incurring comb filtering.

Figure 4: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads magnitude (green trace) and phase (purple trace) response. These pads lift the upper midrange a bit, mainly at the start of the HiFiMan dip, achieving levels more comparable to the Arya Stealth. These pads for my ears also happen to have the shallowest treble nulls overall.

Figure 5: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Velour pads magnitude (blue trace) and phase (red trace) response. These pads have a HiFiMan dip more similar in level to the HE1000se these pads were placed on (i.e. having the least modification of its depth), but also relaxing 3 kHz. These pads in using Velour for the inner pad material absorb the most reflections, incurring the relatively smoothest 3 kHz to 8 kHz region.

Figure 6: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin pads magnitude (azure trace) and phase (magenta trace) response. These pads have the most similar FR to the Elite Hybrid pads, but with less sub-bass, which is likely thanks to both using Fenestrated Sheepskin for the inner pad material which in being the primary controller of internal pad reflections probably has the greatest responsibility over the FR in addition to the use of memory foam instead of the stock foam; here, it might be the use of Fenestrated Sheepskin for the outer pad material that contributes to the reduced sub-bass extension per its probably letting air pressure dissipate. The stock pads also have fenestrated leather as their inner pad material, though the foam used may have been a bit more absorptive than the memory foam used in the Dekoni pads, causing the 3 kHz to 8 kHz region to be smoother than on their Dekoni counterparts, but with a reduction in sub-bass extension.

See https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hif...ganic-impressions-thread.890421/post-17866658 (post #11,364) for my measurements of these pads with the HiFiMan Arya Stealth.

Cumulative Spectral Decay (CSD):

These are read in the same manner as in the previous post. The distortion measurements will be included in the next post so they can be put together with the multitone distortion measurements. Again, holding a thick piece of acoustic foam next to the cup to absorb the radiated sound helped improve the CSD measurement. Note that the first three measurements used measurement averaging and thus have a lower noise floor than the last three measurements. The 120 Hz peaks in the CSD are from mains or power supply noise.

Figure 7: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ CSD. This is the one to beat. The CSD performance (how fast the signals attenuate) may be a combination of the driver design, driver damping, and internal pad reflections. Here, the use of fenestrated Alcantara in addition to damping foam behind the driver may contribute to this good CSD performance compared to other planar magnetics. The noise floor slope seen from 10 kHz and up is the absolute minimum from using a 4M length measurement in REW with averaging.

Figure 8: HiFiMan HE1000se stock pads CSD. The CSD from 3 kHz to 8 kHz may get cleaner after EQing that region down as I had done with the Meze Elite to clean up the sound. There is a chance that these HiFiMans do have superior bass CSD compared to the Meze Elite, though I still have yet to EQ them to similar levels.

Figure 9: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads CSD. Here, the increased upper midrange levels coincide with increased CSD in that region.

Figure 10: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads CSD. These happen to be the cleanest out of these pads, even cleaner than the Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin pads despite having similar FRs and using the same inner pad material.

Figure 11: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Velour pads CSD. Differences in CSD cleanness from the Elite Hybrid pads are mainly from differences in levels within the upper midrange and lower treble, these pads having a more forward 1.3 kHz region.

Figure 12: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin pads CSD. The CSD performance of these pads is intermediate between the Elite Hybrid and Elite Sheepskin pads.

Group Delay:

Again, absorbing the radiated sound by holding acoustic foam next to the headphone cups improved the cleanness of the group delay in the upper midrange and lower treble region.

Figure 13: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ group delay. Jagged bass group delay despite its having a smooth frequency response, though the rest after EQ is fairly clean.

Figure 14: HiFiMan HE1000se stock pads group delay. Very clean bass group delay.

There were no notable differences in the group delay plot between the Dekoni pads and the stock pads other than decreased sub-bass extension coinciding with increased bass group delay.

Impulse and Step Response:

Like before, the teal traces are the step responses while the other traces are the impulse responses. These measurements are meant to predict the subjective quality of transients. The subjective predictions are referring to features of said teal step response traces; e.g. "first spike" is referring to the one in said teal trace.

Figure 15: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ impulse and step response. Again, for the Meze Elite, this level of step response sharpness was only achievable with the help of minimum-phase EQ linearizing both the magnitude and phase response. The impulse response has a faster decay than the unEQed HE1000se pads.

Figure 16: HiFiMan HE1000se stock pads impulse and step response. Again, a faster decay of the step response toward zero is indicative of less bass extension.

Figure 17: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads impulse and step response. Here, the dip in the step response after the initial spike is reduced. Since that first spike isn't as high in level as in the HE1000se, the attack of transients may be very slightly dulled. Compared to the other pads, the step response somehow doesn't settle on as high of a level before proceeding to decay. This might cause the second peak to be perceived as more incisive, but cause the transient overall to sound leaner or less weighty, if not "faster"; not that I haven't actually A/Bed this yet, and A/Bing HiFiMan pads effectively isn't exactly easy. The impulse response here is expectedly the slowest to decay per the measured greater upper midrange forwardness and perhaps the more reflective inner pad material.

Figure 18: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads impulse and step response. Transients through these pads will probably be similar in character to the stock pads, but maybe with added weight from the improved sub-bass extension.

Figure 19: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Velour pads impulse and step response. Transients through these pads might be have a "blunted incisiveness". The first spike like with the Elite Sheepskin pads is a bit lower in level than with the stock pads, possibly incurring a slightly less incisive attack. Again, this is pure speculation based on the look of a graph which may or may not breed new "headphone folklore" on how these pads sound. The impulse response here decays about as fast as on the stock pads.

Figure 20: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin pads impulse and step response. These pads might be a bit more incisive than the Elite Velour pads, but with a bit less weight.

Distortion and multitone measurements are covered in the next post.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Finally, we have the harmonic and multitone distortion comparisons.

2024-04-04 - Disclaimer: All of my REW distortion measurements posted between November 2023 (the acquisition of my MOTU M2 and the start of my "100 dB SPL" calibration methodology) and April 2024 are per my latest SPL calibration methodology and due to the cheap 11-month-old HT-80A SPL meter having actually been quite off at least after all that time are around 4 dB too high, so "100 dB SPL" would be closer to 96 dB SPL if my new SPL calibrator is to be trusted.

Harmonic Distortion:

These distortion measurements are read in the same way as in post #4,787. The SPL scale was calibrated by EQing my Meze Elite to the response shown below as a flat reference, my holding up an SPL meter (I only had a dBA meter on hand) with foam wind shield lightly against the unsealed/open-facing driver grille and adjusting the amp volume until it registered around 99 dBA when playing REW's level-checking pink noise signal, my then donning my headphones and adjusting the MOTU M2's mic preamp gain until the respective in-ear microphone causes REW to report a loudness of 99 dB SPL for that same level-checking pink noise signal.

Again, the first three measurements are of 4M length, but additionally averaged between eight repetitions to reduce the noise floor by upwards of 10 dB.

Figure 1: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ harmonic distortion.

Figure 2: HiFiMan HE1000se stock pads harmonic distortion. Compared to the Meze Elite V3 PEQ, the HE1000se is competitive for distortion performance in the midrange except around the 4 kHz resonance (which at least mainly incurs second-order distortions) which this headphone shares with the Arya Stealth, its likewise being inferior in the bass and upper treble. Ultrasonic distortion performance is also inferior.

Figure 3: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads harmonic distortion. The bass distortion performance is improved, but not down to the levels of excellence found with the Meze Elite. For the rest, the distortion levels are correlated with the playback levels incurred by the pads' magnitude response. There was not much difference in the second-order harmonic levels between the averaged and non-averaged (higher noise floor) measurements.

Figure 4: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads harmonic distortion.

Figure 5: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Velour Sheepskin pads harmonic distortion.

Figure 6: HiFiMan HE1000se Dekoni Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin pads harmonic distortion. These pads have slightly worse bass distortion than the others. Don't mind the noise spike at 4 kHz.

Figure 7: HiFiMan Arya Stealth stock pads harmonic distortion. Simply worse, but probably not by enough to matter in practical music listening. I'm not sure yet as to whether I would like to take separate measurements of these pads for this headphone. Note how the ultrasonic magnitude response is a bit greater through the Arya Stealth than on the HE1000se.

Figure 8: Jabra Elite 85h with by-ear-adjusted RTINGS.com-based EQ, ANC on, and highest onboard gain setting harmonic distortion. This is the headphone as driven with its 3.5 mm TRS input as opposed to through Bluetooth; this signal likely first goes through an ADC for noise cancelling processing and then through a DAC that filters out content above 20 kHz. Without the EQ, REW for the same level-checking dB SPL caused the upper midrange to not be at a comparable level for distortion comparisons. The bass when level-matched still had higher third-order harmonic distortion. The midrange THD and up is otherwise rather competitive with the Meze Elite and HE1000se except for THD peaks at 2 kHz and 4 kHz. This version of the EQ and its corrections to the phase response only slightly improved the attack of the impulse response, its still being dull compared to the planar magnetics.

Figure 9: Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT harmonic distortion. The bass distortion is worse than on the Jabra Elite 85h, the midrange distortion and up otherwise being competitive except for the 2 kHz and 4.5 kHz THD peaks. The ultrasonic levels are comparable to those on the Meze Elite, the ultrasonic distortion also being below the noise floor.

Multitone Distortion:

The final measurement uses 1/12 octave pink spectrum multitone signals (with default settings of 20 Hz to 20 kHz, 64k sequence length, 24-bit dither, and "Minimize crest factor" being checked) to approximate the intermodulation distortion conditions of the loudest practical orchestral tutti you might listen to, for example, the trailing end of the first huge tutti of Mahler Symphony No. 5:

Figure 10: Mahler Symphony No. 5 first tutti spectrum analysis. Most of the symphony has a spectral envelope akin to Brownian or red noise while higher-pitched strings, trumpets, or huge tuttis can push that up toward a pink envelope.

Figure 11: RTA noise floor. This shows the noise floor I measured from REW's Real Time Analyzer (RTA). Once the multitone signal is played, which will show up as a bunch of vertical lines, any content between those lines above this noise floor would be harmonic or intermodulation distortion (IMD); I am particularly interested in the latter which only occurs in the presence of multiple tones being played by the same transducer.

The headphones are first set such that playing REW's level-checking pink noise signal causes my in-ear microphones to pick up 99 dB SPL. REW's multitone generator as shown below defaults to a -12 dBFS playback level, whereby -4.50 was the highest round level I could set before digital clipping in the time-domain signal is encountered. This happens to coincide with a reasonable actual playback volume of the generated multitone with enough headroom to avoid clipping the MOTU M2's mic input, its for the EQed Meze Elite registering around 92.3 dBA on my. For reference, the aforementioned part of Mahler Symphony No. 5 registers around 94 dBA while it probably reached 100 dBA when I first heard it from the orchestra level at Roy Thomson Hall. 92.3 dBA might be consistent with what I heard when I experienced the piece again but from the mezzanine.

Figure 12: REW multitone generator settings.

Figure 13: Meze Elite hybrid pads with V3 PEQ multitone distortion. I was quite impressed to see virtually no IMD above the noise floor, which is to say I can have decent confidence that at any given time, I am hearing absolutely nothing but what is actually in the recording, the only "distortions" being "linear" (tonal or phase-related) in nature, and regarding the accuracy of my binaural head-tracking setup. Useful information below 400 Hz cannot be resolved with this multitone density. There is a chance that the IMD may indeed be increasing for this multitone density at those lower frequencies, but when I tried lower multitone densities, I could barely excite any visible IMD.

Figure 14: HiFiMan HE1000se stock pads multitone distortion. Here, we do see some distortion above the noise floor proportional to the previously measured harmonic distortion, but still quite low.

I did not bother to take multitone measurements of the Dekoni pads, whereby they should be similar to the stock pads, following the differences in their measured harmonic distortion.

The last three headphone measurements were taken with the following noise floor:

Figure 14: RTA noise floor at the time of the last three measurements.

Figure 15: HiFiMan Arya Stealth stock pads multitone distortion. This performance happens to be comparable to the HE1000se other than some peaks related to the Arya's own THD peaks.

Figure 16: Jabra Elite 85h multitone distortion. Here, the upper midrange multitone distortion is of a higher level than on the Arya Stealth or HE1000se, its otherwise being on par with the Meze Elite above 4 kHz.

Figure 17: Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT pads multitone distortion. Here, it is worse than the Jabra Elite 85h in the 2 kHz region and at the 4.5 kHz THD spike. Otherwise, these levels are technically still fairly low compared to the signal.

For 1-octave multitone distortion measurements that are more revealing of distortion performance within the bass, see post #4,807.

Conclusion:

• We've seen the benefits of proper EQ on turning a headphone like the Meze Elite into something measurably incisive.
• Higher-end headphone models within the same line typically do at least show improvements in distortion performance or control of resonances, the Susvara being the exception for the latter.
• Only the Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads showed a noticeable advantage in bass distortion performance, but with some tradeoffs.
• The Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads would probably be the best for my purpose of EQing them to a free-field response for use in binaural head-tracking, their mainly providing and alternative comfort and presentation from the Meze Elite I am already using for this purpose.
• Headphones can have surprisingly low distortion for dense multitone signals, whereby though these lower-end dynamic headphones were capable of competitive harmonic distortion performance, they could be a bit worse for multitone signals, but are probably transparent enough.

 

[dfiled]

For those who have heard both the v3/stealth and the SE, which does better for bass slam on a good strong SS amp?

 

[yeboyi]

For those who have heard both the v3/stealth and the SE, which does better for bass slam on a good strong SS amp?

I wouldn't recommend Hekse for bass slam. For bass, Stealth seems to be the better one.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

For those who have heard both the v3/stealth and the SE, which does better for bass slam on a good strong SS amp?

Per my measurements in the preceding posts, at least for my ears and these fresh pads, the Arya Stealth will probably have better sub-bass extension which could contribute to bass impact. I was A/Bing just now, but remembered that I had the Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads installed on the HE1000se which measurably makes their bass extension comparable, but technically flatter in level. Anyways, I am not noticing that much appreciable difference.

 

[dfiled]

Per my measurements in the preceding posts, at least for my ears and these fresh pads, the Arya Stealth will probably have better sub-bass extension which could contribute to bass impact. I was A/Bing just now, but remembered that I had the Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads installed on the HE1000se which measurably makes their bass extension comparable, but technically flatter in level. Anyways, I am not noticing that much appreciable difference.

At least in my view, bass extension (how loud the lowest frequencies are) and slam (the extent to which the drivers move air and create a physical sense of impact) are quite unrelated.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

At least in my view, bass extension (how loud the lowest frequencies are) and slam (the extent to which the drivers move air and create a physical sense of impact) are quite unrelated.

My measurements and subjective impressions also show comparably sharp transient responses (related to the phase response and maybe group delay). To me, bass quantity plus transient sharpness equals impact. So when I find two headphones to be measurably and subjectively very similar in the latter, I would consider the former as a way to compare the whole. As for "moving air", which could be a third criterion I haven't had the chance to evaluate more closely yet (e.g. last time, I didn't hear the 2022 Focal Utopia as being particularly advantageous in "slam", but its step response suggests its at least meeting the transient sharpness criterion), I suppose one can quibble as to which one requires a greater excursion to achieve the same sound pressure, that's harder to say between these very similar headphone designs. The HE1000se has less magnet obstruction in front of the drivers, so if EQed or pad-rolled to the same bass levels, maybe you would feel the air a bit more. I can say that for the same amp power, the HE1000se is around 1 dB louder, whether or not that implies that it can achieve the same amount of bass with a bit less excursion.

 

[dfiled]

I don't feel that my question can be answered with measurements -- I suppose I am asking for people's subjective impressions of the two cans.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

I don't feel that my question can be answered with measurements -- I suppose I am asking for people's subjective impressions of the two cans.

I've provided my subjective impressions (the Arya Stealth with stock pads is probably better for slam, but I currently can't be 100% sure since I do not perceive that much of an appreciable difference, as I have said) as supplemented with how they can be correlated with predictions from measurements. But yes, others' opinions are to be considered.

 

[dfiled]

Yes, thank you, but I asked about the 1000v3 vs the 1000se, not the Arya.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Yes, thank you, but I asked about the 1000v3 vs the 1000se, not the Arya.

There we have the confusion. Both could be called "V3/Stealth". My apologies. Though I can quibble from TechPowerUp's measurement that assuming comparable transient sharpness, the HE1000 Stealth does have even better bass extension than the Arya Stealth. I shall resist the urge to get one more headphone to measure and compare in search of the lowest bass distortion out of a HiFiMan egg.

 

[morpheus69]

I've provided my subjective impressions (the Arya Stealth with stock pads is probably better for slam, but I currently can't be 100% sure since I do not perceive that much of an appreciable difference, as I have said) as supplemented with how they can be correlated with predictions from measurements. But yes, others' opinions are to be considered.

Have you exercised the headphones to their recommended times? 100-150hrs? If not, do so then run your tests. The HEKse, has loads more bass and texture and clarity than any of the other HEK, and certainly more than anything below it. The presentation is smooth, clear and holographic. And in general as most can attest to, Hifiman headphones are a bit rough out of the box till the diaphragms are worked in.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Have you exercised the headphones to their recommended times? 100-150hrs? If not, do so then run your tests. The HEKse, has loads more bass and texture and clarity than any of the other HEK, and certainly more than anything below it. The presentation is smooth, clear and holographic. And in general as most can attest to, Hifiman headphones are a bit rough out of the box till the diaphragms are worked in.

The very first signal I ran through these headphones was literally a measurement sine sweep for the purpose of testing this claim. I can say I with the Arya Stealth ran pink noise through it overnight for a month, listening during the day, and can't say I noticed anything compared to the immediate improvement of EQing it at the start of that first month. I can try swapping in my Arya's broken-in pads onto the HE1000se and see if that does something.

At least at the moment, my view is that most "burn-in" is minor, mainly related to pad compression over time, and from psychological adjustment to a tonality. I experience "mental burn-in" with EQ profiles, even, where the new becomes the norm and the old starts to sound wonky.