Stax SR-X9000
Dec 3, 2023 at 11:54 AM Post #2,731 of 3,045
Has anyone had the chance to listen to the X9000 on both Grand Cayman and Eksonic T2? Wondering how they compare.

I found them comparable, as in for me I'd list them in the same absolute highest top tier. Both are highly resolving, with a spacing that let's stats shine at what they do best. I found the T2 to have a bit weightier timbre and slightly harder hitting bass. Would want more listens to say anything beyond that, but again both very good and are pretty phenomenal with the x9000.

I think the important thing will be the price that's eventually landed on for the Cayman.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 11:58 AM Post #2,732 of 3,045
reading these recent posts about the X9K.. realizing it's the only stat which I really like, and wondering to myself why I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

If it's the only stat you truly have enjoyed, I get it. It's really hard to get motivated to build an expensive system just around one pair of headphones. You might as well do it though lol
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 12:21 PM Post #2,733 of 3,045
I think it is rather $7.200 reasons, as it is for me, still not conviced... and those channel imbalances...:wink:
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:36 PM Post #2,734 of 3,045
If it's the only stat you truly have enjoyed, I get it. It's really hard to get motivated to build an expensive system just around one pair of headphones. You might as well do it though lol

aside from the cost, I think the worst part is audio rack real estate is a premium and some stuff have got to go to make way for it.. I love everything I currently have and don't know how I'm gg to choose which items will be sacrificed.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:51 PM Post #2,735 of 3,045
aside from the cost, I think the worst part is audio rack real estate is a premium and some stuff have got to go to make way for it.. I love everything I currently have and don't know how I'm gg to choose which items will be sacrificed.

Totally get it. 100%.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:54 PM Post #2,736 of 3,045
aside from the cost, I think the worst part is audio rack real estate is a premium and some stuff have got to go to make way for it.. I love everything I currently have and don't know how I'm gg to choose which items will be sacrificed.
Audio hoarder syndrome…I am also afflicted with it! I need an intervention
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:55 PM Post #2,737 of 3,045
That comment on rack space made me really curious on whether the X9000 fits on the Hifiman Shangri-La stand. I find that stand, which is like a little velvet-padded couch that the headphones sit on, to be one of the best ways of displaying a commonly used headphone because it doesn't place any extra pressure on the earpads or the headband. I was also thinking that once I get the X9000, I'd need another stand, and probably a dust cover to put on it when not in use. It's not an obstacle to me getting the headphones, just logistics.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 6:32 PM Post #2,738 of 3,045
@SolarCetacean Count me jealous of the comfort you are experiencing with these headphones. Is it simply a perfect fit for your head, as in proper seal at the front and back of the pads with even pressure throughout?

As for what you described with transient decay, unless it rather has to do with treble quantity, it could be correlated with the cumulative spectral decay (CSD; how each frequency decays for an impulse input, hence which resonances are excited) measurements. E.g. With you and others noticing that extra sizzle or whatever to transients on the Susvara, that might be the "hideous" CSD managing to be audible in actual music rather than just when listening to isolated impulses like in http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Acustica-samples/Dirac.wav.

1701644197179.png

Figure 1: Susvara CSD from https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...fiman-susvara-headphones&catid=263&Itemid=203.

I would suspect the DCA Corina to manage to have a much cleaner CSD at the expense of dulled transients from the damping required to achieve such. I did measure a higher than average but controlled upper midrange CSD on the X9000 and Sennheiser HE-1, so estats with less damping probably do inherently trade off transient sharpness for a less clean transient decay which in this case you seem to prefer the sound of. My holy grail is to be able to couple both incisive transients with a clean decay so I can enjoy both that sharpness, impact, and tactility, as well as a "black background" not polluted by any decay products, my only hearing the actual decay within the recording. The Final Audio D8000 pro was probably the closest to that, but it encountered sub-bass clipping or rattle more quickly than the other headphones I tried, and its presentation is too small for my liking.

I did recently figure out how to display the step response of my headphones as calculated from the logarithmic sine sweep and hence impulse response; these make objective considerations of headphone "speed" much more intuitive to spot out and correlate with experience:

The step response in the below is always in teal.

2023-12-03 - Arya Stealth impulse and step response.jpg

Figure 2: HiFiMan Arya Stealth impulse and step response. Here, you can see that the powerful incisiveness I head out of it can be correlated to a sharp step response. On the other hand, that edge is dirtier, and the decay is dominated by a 4.3 kHz resonance, though one can EQ that peak down.

2023-12-03 - Meze Elite stock hybrid impulse and step response.jpg

Figure 3: Meze Elite stock hybrid pads impulse and step response. Here, the attack of the step response is clearly rounder and hence duller.

2023-12-03 - Meze Elite EQed hybrid impulse and step response.jpg

Figure 4: Impulse and step response for the Meze Elite hybrid pads with my flat and Harman-like "V3 PEQ". Here, the magnitude and phase response corrections achieved with my minimum-phase EQ have incurred a speed and sharpness comparable to the Arya Stealth's stock performance, its having a cleaner step response decay and thanks to my EQ, greater sub-bass extension (if it extended all the way down to 0 Hz, then the step response would not decay like thus). The Stax SR-X9000 had a yet faster initial rise time, but a subsequent initially more rapid drop-off before rebounding and returning to normal decay, whether or not this adds to a sense of increased incisiveness; its impulse response also had a less prominent secondary spike which I guess contributes to its initially faster decay.

2023-12-03 - Meze Elite AmbiBIN R 30 L impulse and step response.jpg

Figure 5: Impulse and step response for the Meze Elite hybrid pads with my personal HRTF applied by SPART AmbiBIN and EQed with Equalizer APO to my in-ear measurement for a free-field speaker panned 30 degrees left relative to my left ear. This is assessing my current binaural head-tracking setup where I simulate a perfectly neutral stereo triangle within an anechoic chamber. Transients are still incisive, though having a more rounded initiation, and the decay was initially faster and dirtier; note that this was without my preferred 5 dB 100 Hz low shelf.

2023-12-03 - Meze Elite AmbiBIN LR 30 L impulse and step response.jpg

Figure 6: Same as above, but with both the left and right channels playing in phase. Here, the decay envelope is more bolstered, possibly contributing more weight while the sound from the left channel alone might have been sharp but thin.

2023-12-03 - ATH-M50xBT impulse and step response.jpg

Figure 5: Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT impulse and step response. My first audiophile headphone from 2019. Other than that initial spike, the step response is quite rounded or dulled.

2023-12-03 - Jabra Elite 85h impulse and step response.jpg

Figure 6: Jabra Elite 85h impulse and step response. My work-at-home headset from 2021. Here, without EQ, the step response is quite duller yet than the stock Meze Elite. Otherwise, both this and the ATH-M50xBT had exceptionally clean CSDs falling below my measurements' noise floor.

In short, the perceived transient sharpness I heard when listening to http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Acustica-samples/Dirac.wav correlated well with the measured step responses.
 

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Dec 3, 2023 at 7:07 PM Post #2,739 of 3,045
aside from the cost, I think the worst part is audio rack real estate is a premium and some stuff have got to go to make way for it.. I love everything I currently have and don't know how I'm gg to choose which items will be sacrificed.
Personally I would sell the Utopia (Caldera has you covered when you want punchy/dynamic sound) and SR1a (CA-1a does most of what that does but with better bass). Haven't heard the Solitaire P so I can't comment on that but from what I read it seems there's overlap with the 1266.

Just my $0.02 :)

@SolarCetacean Count me jealous of the comfort you are experiencing with these headphones. Is it simply a perfect fit for your head, as in proper seal at the front and back of the pads with even pressure throughout?
Like Solar, I'm also in the camp that thinks the X9000 fits well and is very comfortable. I honestly don't think seal is too important with the X9000. I find if I break the seal slightly like 1mm, it doesn't change the sound. But if I create a large gap, it does, and it increases as I pull the headphones further off my ears (up to a limit). This leads me to believe the bass lift we can get by breaking the seal is not actually coming from the seal breaking but rather the distance the driver is from the ear.

I would love to do some pad experiments someday, seeing if simply thicker pads produce a bass lift.

Also that dullness you measured in the Elite probably explains why I found it less dynamic than my Expanse when I recently compared them, thanks for the data.
 
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Dec 3, 2023 at 7:13 PM Post #2,740 of 3,045
@SolarCetacean Count me jealous of the comfort you are experiencing with these headphones. Is it simply a perfect fit for your head, as in proper seal at the front and back of the pads with even pressure throughout?
I didn't check for seal. Nothing in the X9000's presentation ever made me want to check if I had a broken seal. I don't think the X9000 seals even in the best of circumstances, as Stax seems to build a port into the driver housing of their newer models. And I haven't had my hair cut in over two months, so I suspect that the hair alone would compromise any seal that could exist in theory. When I tilted my head around, I did not notice any gap where the earpads were lifting off of my skin and touching again, which happens on the SR-L700mk2.

I'm not sure what to think about the CSD plots. I've heard many people say that they're no different from FR graphs, and that the ringing isn't relevant to headphones. On the contrary, I've also read that since the human ear doesn't maintain phase lock above 2 KHz, that the brain interprets longer sounds as louder in that non-locking region. Hence, the CSD resonance trails will make those frequencies sound louder than their FR magnitude would imply because they hang around a tiny fraction of a second longer. It seems to track with the weird transient treble sheen I heard on the Susvara. I'd be very curious to put the Susvara through some dynamic EQ to see if I could get rid of the sheen via dynamic compression on transients without affecting overall tonal balance. But for now, what I gather from CSD graphs is that if there's ringing at a certain frequency, then it's best not to boost that area with EQ, because that will exacerbate that ringing.

Nearly every CSD I've seen of estats has included some sort of ringing in the midrange, so I suspect that it's a natural result of the technology at the sizes most headphones are built in. The only estat I've seen that didn't have midrange CSD ringing was my own MiniDSP EARS rig measurement of the Shangri-La Jr. But that's an EARS measurement, so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

One thing you'll find interesting about dynamic EQ is that it's a nonlinear process. Parametric EQ is linear - its adjustment to the FR is independent of the content in the signal. Dynamic EQ changes its adjustment amounts based on what's being played at the moment. The fact that different headphones EQed to the same FR curve can exhibit different levels of "punch" (that sensation of almost physical impact of air hitting your ears, similar to chest punch from speakers) is something that I've never seen a good explanation for. Yet I can tune the amount of "punch" very easily with dynamic EQ by expanding transients. This leads me to conjecture that there's some other nonlinearity at play that we're not measuring properly. Or maybe it's encapsulated in THD and we're not pulling that metric apart properly. The only headphone maker that seems to understand how to manipulate this attribute (or is willing to share how they manipulate it) is Dan Clark, with his impulse overshoot avoidance philosophy, and whatever he's doing has consistently resulted in blunted dynamics on his company's headphones. They claim that his new E3 headphone is livelier, but I'll believe it when I hear it.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 7:16 PM Post #2,741 of 3,045
I didn't check for seal. Nothing in the X9000's presentation ever made me want to check if I had a broken seal. I don't think the X9000 seals even in the best of circumstances, as Stax seems to build a port into the driver housing of their newer models.
This seems to support my suspicions that seal doesn't matter on the X9000.

Also regarding CSDs I find it hard to believe the camp that says it's not audible. For example, on the Susvara graph, 5kHz is hanging around for about 15ms, that's gotta be audible, right?

The fact that different headphones EQed to the same FR curve can exhibit different levels of "punch" (that sensation of almost physical impact of air hitting your ears, similar to chest punch from speakers) is something that I've never seen a good explanation for.
I've always attributed this to impulse response. Makes sense that two headphones outputting the same dB signal, if one takes twice as long to get up to that dB, it's going to have less impact.
 
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Dec 3, 2023 at 7:22 PM Post #2,742 of 3,045
Personally I would sell the Utopia (Caldera has you covered when you want punchy/dynamic sound) and SR1a (CA-1a does most of what that does but with better bass). Haven't heard the Solitaire P so I can't comment on that but from what I read it seems there's overlap with the 1266.

Just my $0.02 :)


I honestly don't think seal is too important with the X9000. I find if I break the seal slightly like 1mm, it doesn't change the sound. But if I create a large gap, it does, and it increases as I pull the headphones further off my ears (up to a limit). This leads me to believe the bass lift we can get by breaking the seal is not actually coming from the seal breaking but rather the distance the driver is from the ear.

I would love to do some pad experiments someday, seeing if simply thicker pads produce a bass lift.

Also that dullness you measured in the Elite probably explains why I found it less dynamic than my Expanse when I recently compared them, thanks for the data.
My measurements did show improved sub-bass extension when pressing the cups for a better seal, though yes, a more ideal measurement would have comprised an in-situ insertion of something to improve the front and back seal without moving the drivers closer. Anyways, as someone who keeps the hair to the sides of my head reasonably trimmed, I unfortunately noticeably felt increased pressure (even if relatively light) on from the upper and lower parts of the pads which presented an unpleasant imbalance in the seating compared to how snugly the Meze Elite hybrid pads and HiFiMan Serenity pads (Arya Stealth etc.) fit my head.

@SolarCetacean How is the fit of the Shangri-La Jr. on your head, particularly the snugness of the front and back of the pads? Does it use similar pads to the Susvara?
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 7:25 PM Post #2,743 of 3,045
My measurements did show improved sub-bass extension when pressing the cups for a better seal, though
I should clarify that when I break seal it seems as if sub-bass drops but mid-bass lifts. Which is in line with what you're saying.
When I was simply stating "bass" that meant mid-bass.
 
Dec 3, 2023 at 7:31 PM Post #2,744 of 3,045
@SolarCetacean How is the fit of the Shangri-La Jr. on your head, particularly the snugness of the front and back of the pads? Does it use similar pads to the Susvara?
The SGL Jr has a pretty snug, but comfortable fit. If it weren't for the X9000, the SGL Jr would be the most comfortable headphone for me. I think the snugness is in line with other Hifiman headphones like the Arya. The SGL passed the "paper-proof seal test" where I push a thin piece of paper between the earpad and my skin and try to have it touch my ears. If I can't push the paper through, then I consider it a good seal, and the SGL Jr passed that test.
It also uses the exact same earpads as the Susvara (Harmony Pad), which makes it relatively simple to replace the earpads when (it's a Hifiman after all) they wear out. The Jr has less clamp pressure compared to the Susvara, at least the Susvara that I demoed on Friday.
 
Dec 4, 2023 at 6:51 AM Post #2,745 of 3,045
Personally I would sell the Utopia (Caldera has you covered when you want punchy/dynamic sound) and SR1a (CA-1a does most of what that does but with better bass). Haven't heard the Solitaire P so I can't comment on that but from what I read it seems there's overlap with the 1266.

Actually I'm not too fussed about the headphones.. I'd keep all of the ones I have anyways. definitely wouldn't sell the Utopia. that headphone just gives me too much enjoyment to let it go. I'm more at odds with having to add an amp just for one headphone. and at considerable cost too, unless I go for a Headamp blue hawaii which I see a couple for sale on my local buy/sell.
 

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