MEZE AUDIO ELITE - The New Isodynamic Hybrid Array Headphone - official thread
Sep 22, 2023 at 8:30 AM Post #5,146 of 5,619
Pads don't change the main characteristics of the two headphones. Elite is still more spacious, more detailed, better balanced than the Empyrean, manly due to the thinner diaphragms. Pads only fine tune the existing sound and the Empyrean seem to benefit even more of this 'correction/improvement' the angled pads bring.
IMO the angled pads are a clear improvement on both headphones and frankly, I think they are a must.
Exactly this.

The angled pads do bring the Empyreans signature closer to the Elite but you will still be missing the additional technicalities of the Elites.

When I listen to the Empyreans though I must say I would always forget about the technicalities to a degree and just groove away. :L3000:
 
Sep 22, 2023 at 9:04 AM Post #5,147 of 5,619
I haven't taken the Angled pads off my Elite for the last month or so. After the initial mental adjustment to less mid-bass and more bass detail, I haven't been inclined to put the Hybrid pads back on the headphones. I agree that the Angled pads provide an objective improvement in technicalities, but I'm sure there will still be people who prefer the tuning with the Hybrid pads.
 
Sep 22, 2023 at 1:53 PM Post #5,148 of 5,619
I’ve been going back and forth a lot. I always go back to the angled. It’s fun to swap to hybrid sometimes. Depending on the mood/music genre
 
Sep 22, 2023 at 5:20 PM Post #5,150 of 5,619
To provide a counterbalancing opinion and as I’ve said in this thread previously, I don’t like the angled pads at all, and I can’t listen to them for any extended duration. I find them very fatiguing, and while there is more detail and a greater 3D “realness” (or perhaps precision) to the sound, to my ears the soundstage collapses and is very narrow.

Still, I’m glad the pads exist as an option for people, I’ll take anything that gives more flexibility.
 
Sep 22, 2023 at 5:24 PM Post #5,151 of 5,619
I haven't taken the Angled pads off my Elite for the last month or so. After the initial mental adjustment to less mid-bass and more bass detail, I haven't been inclined to put the Hybrid pads back on the headphones. I agree that the Angled pads provide an objective improvement in technicalities, but I'm sure there will still be people who prefer the tuning with the Hybrid pads.
I’ll have to try the angled pads. I love the elite pads on my Empyrean. I’ve used them along with the Wywire platinum cable and they really sound nice. I always wished there was something between the tuning of the elite and empyrean - then pad swapping got me there.
 
Sep 22, 2023 at 6:38 PM Post #5,152 of 5,619
So I recently acquired some in-ear microphones from Earfish (datasheet can be found at https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1653468.pdf):

20230919_133959.jpg

I suspect that these ones don't fit as deeply as the ones used with the Smyth Realiser A16 or in some academic canal entrance HRTF measurements, but these do the job. Their wires need to be supported by the included headband to prevent their position being disturbed between measurements, else they will be all over the place. These measurements inherently exclude the ear canal resonance which in my case considering the area that I EQed down, and such showing up in my measurements, resides around 3 kHz.

20230922_122623 - Cropped.jpg


Frequency response measurements (magnitude and phase):

Here we have the canal entrance magnitude and phase response for the Meze Elite for my ears; only the left channel is shown since the right microphone has sub-bass roll-off. Again, this excludes the canal resonance which as you can see in https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ear-resonance-gain-chart-confusion.26426/ would for 45 degree incidence incur a peak around 2.5 kHz to 3 kHz and a rise in the surrounding frequencies consistent with HRTF ear gain.

1695416897114.png


Looking at page 8 of https://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/courses/spsci/AUDL4007/12.pdf, that canal gain peak is present, whereby as we approach a 90 degree incidence, the 6 kHz concha resonance becomes more prominent. Of course, the close to 90 degree incidence provided by headphones isn't exactly free-field and has the influence of resonances and nulls within the earpad enclosure.

Meze Elite hybrid pads - 98 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite stock L hybrid - 98 dBA.jpg


Here, a distinct peak can be seen at 6 kHz at least for my ears which can be very audible in spectrally dense music and singled out with sine sweeps and pink noise. The excessive levels here contribute to my hearing the constant hiss of overly amplified noise within many recordings. Hence, at the minimum, I strongly recommend EQ to clean up peaks you might have never realized were veiling your listening experience and keeping you away from exquisite clarity.

Meze Elite angled Alcantara pads - 98 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite stock L angled - 98 dBA.jpg


This graph was normalized with the previous about 1 kHz. The bass to midrange bloat is seen to be brought down by an impressive 4 dB consistent with my headphones.com Harman based EQ, likewise slightly linearizing the area above 1 kHz. This does improve clarity, but at the cost of sub-bass extension, and without addressing the 6 kHz resonance (which here has moved to 5.7 kHz perhaps because the drivers are now a bit further from the ears). The top octave response is fairly similar, and likewise at a similar level relative to 1 kHz and the 6 kHz peak. These pads could still be perceived as brighter if one finds themselves raising the volume levels to bring the bass and midrange forward toward their original levels. There are not much phase response differences of interest.


Meze Elite hybrid pads with by-ear adjusted V2.2d EQ - 98 dBA unsealed playback:


2023-09-22 - Meze Elite EQ V2_2d L hybrid - 98 dBA.jpg


Here we have the latest version of my EQ profile prior to the receipt of my in-ear microphones. Note that this measurement was done on a different day, whereby oddly, the microphones decided to decrease their sensitivity and noise floor today. This EQ includes a Harman-like bass shelf. I for some recordings use an opposing shelf and peaking filter to tame that. I had previously shared the V2.2b version which excessively attenuates the 4 kHz to 7 kHz region, though that made some busy tracks sound "cleaner".

Meze Elite hybrid pads with measurement-enhanced V3 EQ - 98 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite EQ L hybrid - 98 dBA.jpg


Finally, with the help of in-ear measurements, I was able to smoothen the remaining peaks and dips. As can be seen, minimum-phase EQ actually corrects phase errors in the bass to midrange, though I cannot say if the phase around 3 kHz would be corrected once measured at the ear drum, or whether the ear actually introduces its own phase transfer function. This EQ was with a slight intentional bass tilt. I for some recordings add a 50 Hz 3.5 dB 0.4 Q peaking filter to give me more bass quantity and impact. The 3 kHz dip is the area I EQed down due to its sticking out within pink noise and sine sweeps. In theory, this would be consistent with the exclusion of the previously shown canal gain, which I would expect if added back by being able to have a microphone situated right at my ear drum would cause this graph to look much more like the B&K 5128 diffuse-field curve from https://forum.headphones.com/t/b-k-5128-target-community-input-thread/20729:

1695417092325.png


This is to say, my EQ may indeed already be very close to a proper neutral HRTF response. That measurement rig doesn't capture the 9 kHz null measured in my ears and the GRAS ears, though.

Anyways, in practice, those last measurement-guided changes barely made a difference in sound.

2023-10-27 addendum:

I recently had a chance to spend 20 minutes with the Sennheiser HE-1, two minutes spent on watching the shut-down cycle and then not realizing that I needed to press the power button hard, then eight minutes taking frequency response and attempted distortion measurements with these same in-ear microphones. Here you can see the exceptionally smooth frequency response (upper curve; to me, FR smoothness or lack of peaks masking surrounding frequencies is synonymous with "resolving") for the left ear showing similar flatness to my final EQ, and 4 kHz and top octave levels likewise comparable. On the other hand, the 1.2 kHz to 3 kHz dip is visible which I instead fill to be flat other than my EQing down what I hear as an overemphasized ear canal resonance at 3 kHz. Furthermore, though not always noticeable, or not problematic amid the noisy conditions of that shop, I would have definitely EQed the 6 kHz region down as it would have otherwise sounded like a constant hissing due to an excessive concha gain. The Meze Elite and Arya Stealth for my ears have the treble nulls similarly positioned around 9 kHz and 14 kHz. Interestingly, the phase was monotonically decreasing (update: this was due to lack of sample synchronization between the DAC and ADC used in taking the measurements, so this finding is invalid), whether or not this effect is audible. Regardless, though the HE-1 felt comfortable and solid and sounded agreeable, I would say that I did indeed prefer the final EQ, comfort, and presentation of my Meze Elite. The noise conditions of the shop were also prohibitive to my confirming whether its distortion or CSD were actually superior.

2023-10-04 - Sennheiser HE-1 L - FR and phase.jpg


Finally, here is the compensated measurement of my left ear's frequency response when facing a GLM-calibrated Genelec 8341A positioned 1.5 m away in a large backyard with lots of acoustic padding for the ground reflection. Here, the shape of objective neutrality below 1 kHz is confirmed, and likewise the relative level of the top octave frequencies. It is furthermore apparent that free-field listening would have the ear gain region between 1 kHz to 5 kHz 5 dB to 10 dB above the midrange, which I do in practice find too bright for a number of recordings, else rendering the midrange too thin (then there is stuff about the "BBC dip" which may be responsible for many classical recordings that sound bright on truly flat speakers). (2024-03-19: See "Calibration using threshold of hearing curves" in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rec...-virtualization.890719/page-121#post-18027627 (post #1,812). Everything I have said about neutral speakers actually having a lot more ear gain than neutral headphones was wrong.) Otherwise, you can see that my ears naturally do not expect a peak at 6 kHz, hence how even the HE-1 can be "imperfect" for me and require EQ.

2023-10-25 - center L compensated.jpg


The uncompensated measurement for my left ear when directing my body 30 degrees to the right to simulate the response of the left channel of a standard stereo triangle isn't much different, the main salient point being a greater 4 kHz level and the dip from the lack of ear canal resonance in this canal entrance measurement moving from 2.5 kHz to 3 kHz which I had EQed down for the Meze Elite.

2023-10-27 - R 30 L.jpg


My EQing post (#4,665).
 

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Sep 22, 2023 at 6:39 PM Post #5,153 of 5,619
Distortion measurements:

Finally, for interest, here are some distortion measurements using these in-ear mics with REW. The in-ear mics were connected to Earfish's included Axagon USB HQ Audio Mini Adapter while the test signals were being fed to the headphones through my FiiO K9 Pro ESS. The measurement length was set to "512k". Today amid the odd decrease in mic sensitivity, the noise floor had also decreased to around -50 dBFS, whereby resting my right hand on my DAC/amp's chassis somehow decreases that to -65 dBFS or lower. This is amid an ambient 35 dBA noise floor.

Meze Elite hybrid pads - 98 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite stock L hybrid - 98 dBA - distortion.jpg


The 98 dBA figure comes from holding my HT-80A SPL meter up to the driver with the wind shield on and using REW's "Measure" feature's "Check levels" button. The DAC/amp was set to low gain with the volume knob a bit past 3 o'clock compared to the a bit past 5 o'clock maximum. The THD in the midrange is upwards of -68 dB, or around 0.04%, which is excellent. To put this into perspective, I get this same 98 dBA when playing back the opening of Mahler 5 at the nigh concert levels, so this headphone is very much under control. Likewise, the subbass distortion is on the order of -54 dB or 0.2%, which is surely inaudible. Nonetheless, you can see the peak in distortion around 370 Hz where a supposed driver mode causes a shelf in the response.

Meze Elite angled Alcantara pads - 98 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite stock L angled - 98 dBA - distortion.jpg


Here, bass distortion is only slightly lower due to lower bass levels, though the relative percentage THD would be slightly higher. I will continue to argue that the hybrid pads are superior for EQ due to their better sub-bass extension, and the phase response doesn't suggest anything advantageous about the angled Alcantara pads.

Meze Elite hybrid pads with measurement-enhanced V3 EQ - 98 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite EQ L hybrid - 98 dBA - distortion.jpg


Not much interesting here other than the occasional distortion peak, and that EQing up the midrange toward neutrality was not detrimental to the distortion performance.

Meze Elite hybrid pads - 111 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite stock L hybrid - 111 dBA - distortion.jpg


This was with the DAC/amp set to high gain with the volume knob set to around 4 o'clock compared to the a bit past 5 o'clock maximum. Of course, the in-ear mics provided reasonable isolation for my ear drums. In quite good control, peaking at -54 dB 0.2% THD in the upper bass (around the same level as at 98 dBA playback!), going as low as -58 dB or 0.126% THD in the upper midrange.

Meze Elite angled Alcantara pads - 111 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite stock L angled - 111 dBA - distortion.jpg


These pads seem to suffer less from the 300 to 400 Hz driver mode distortion, the distortion performance otherwise being similar.

Meze Elite hybrid pads with measurement-enhanced V3 EQ - 111 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Meze Elite EQ L hybrid - 111 dBA - distortion.jpg


Here, the upper midrange which was EQed up toward neutrality goes up to -52 dB or 0.25% THD.

Finally, we have the Arya Stealth for comparison:

Arya Stealth - 98 dBA unsealed playback:


2023-09-22 - Arya Stealth stock L - 98 dBA - distortion.jpg


Clearly, the sub-bass distortion is worse, going up to -52 dB or 0.5% THD. In the midrange, it reaches -60 dB or 0.1% THD, so not up to par with the Meze Elite. This then reaches around -51 dB or 0.28% THD by 2 kHz, then unto a -42 dB or 0.79% THD peak amid that 4 kHz resonance. Regarding said peak, though I in practice had great difficulty consistently EQing it down, by means, with my technique of removing and repositioning the headphones, I wasn't getting very much variation in magnitude response within that region, though there is indeed some channel imbalance there.

Arya Stealth with by-ear adjusted EQ - 98 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Arya Stealth EQ L - 98 dBA - distortion.jpg


As can be seen, I had failed to detect the smaller ripples in the midrange when using sine sweeps and pink noise, though they are probably inaudible in practice. Likewise, you can see that this EQ (which includes a Harman-like bass shelf) could still use some work.

Arya Stealth - 114 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Arya Stealth stock L - 114 dBA - distortion.jpg


My SPL meter shows 114 dBA when using the same measurement method as with the Elite, but registers around the same uncalibrated 105 dB SPL within REW. Sub-bass distortion is on the order of -34 dB or 2% THD, while midrange distortion is on the order of -46 dB or 0.5% THD, peaking at -37 dB or 1.4% THD at the 4 kHz peak.

Arya Stealth with by-ear adjusted EQ - 114 dBA unsealed playback:

2023-09-22 - Arya Stealth EQ L - 114 dBA - distortion.jpg


With my EQ, the upper midrange attains a bump in distortion of upwards of -37 dB or 1.4% THD, then of course a bit more distortion in the sub-bass due to my EQing a shelf.

Now, amid my previous measurement session for similar playback levels, my ATH-M50xBT and Jabra Elite 85h had similar distortion performance for measurement playback levels equivalent to my Elite's and Arya's 98 dBA playback.

Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT - 98 dBA equivalent:

2023-09-19 - ATH-M50xBT L - 98 dBA - distortion.jpg


The ATH-M50xBT started trading blows with the Elite in distortion performance after 700 Hz, the Elite having small high-Q peaks in distortion. These $200 to $300 range dynamic headphones also had smoother frequency responses from a micro perspective, lacking the tinier ripples or noise even when on the same measurement resolution.

Jabra Elite 85h - 98 dBA equivalent:

2023-09-19 - Jabra Elite 85h L - 98 dBA - distortion.jpg


The Jabra's sub-bass distortion performance is slightly better than the ATH-M50xBT's at this playback level, being on the order of the EQed Arya's performance. Both this and the ATH-M50xBT were able to reach 0.05% THD in the midrange and up. These dynamic headphones also had cleaner CSD charts, so not as much resonance spray in the midrange, though subjectively, their transient responses didn't sound as sharp (though perhaps when pushed to unrealistic levels). Regardless, there are subjective gains from making the upgrade to having so much space around your ears with such a huge planar presentation.
 

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Sep 22, 2023 at 10:31 PM Post #5,154 of 5,619
Are the Alcantara Ear Pads that came with my Elites the same as the Angled Alcantara Ear Pads? They are not described as angled (I was an early adopter), but on the Meze website only the angled are available. Are there two Alcantara pads or are they all the same?
 
Sep 22, 2023 at 10:52 PM Post #5,155 of 5,619
The Angled Alcantara pads have replaced the flat Alcantara pads that originally came with the Elite. I guess you can’t even buy the original Alcantara pads anymore.
 
Sep 23, 2023 at 2:39 PM Post #5,157 of 5,619
My Elite arrives on Monday.

Looking forward to seeing how they synergize with my hardware.
What are you going to use them with?
 
Sep 23, 2023 at 2:59 PM Post #5,159 of 5,619
Sep 23, 2023 at 4:45 PM Post #5,160 of 5,619

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