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Hifiman HE1000 Planar Dynamic Headphone

Mar 5, 2018 at 12:39 PM Post #9,886 of 15,134
In which case, you may be interested in my EQ settings tomorrow :).
I should add that I felt both the Utopia and especially the HD800S were more in need of EQ than my HEK's were. No headphone I've yet heard has been subjectively tonally neutral to me, although (from others reports) the Susvara and Abyss Phi may be getting pretty close. I've yet to try these two.
 
Mar 5, 2018 at 1:22 PM Post #9,888 of 15,134
TheAttorney said:
In which case, you may be interested in my EQ settings tomorrow :).
I should add that I felt both the Utopia and especially the HD800S were more in need of EQ than my HEK's were. No headphone I've yet heard has been subjectively tonally neutral to me, although (from others reports) the Susvara and Abyss Phi may be getting pretty close. I've yet to try these two.
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Agreed. I'm always seeking out closest to MY neutral. LOL.

What EQ software do you use? I'm certainly interested to trying out other people's EQ. Put me on the side that finds EQ not working out as well I wish. Headphones don't sound right to me with EQ. Believe me, I tried EQ on my cans. Only EQ that sounded somwhat right was on a particular portable player for the iSines, the Lotoo PAW Gold with a parametric EQ, not graphic. That player didn't have that EQ sound especially with the iSines which had weird upper mids without the cipher cable to ios.
 
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Mar 5, 2018 at 2:50 PM Post #9,889 of 15,134
doctorjazz said:
I like the Bendy Head.
http://www.bendyhead.com/
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Okay, I got the Bendy Head Pro headphone stand, which looks great and really holds my HE1000s firmly, but I'm worried about it compressing the pads because the headphones really hug the stand closely. I wouldn't complain if it were cheaper, but for $129 I'd prefer a quality stand with which I'm pretty satisfied.

I called Bendy Head and talked to the owner about returning it. He was really nice on the phone and was surprised that I would want to return it, as supposedly I'm his first customer to ask for that. He did say I could return it for a refund if I was unsatisfied.

I feel pretty bad now about returning it. Are you completely satisfied with your Bendy Head?
 
Mar 5, 2018 at 3:02 PM Post #9,890 of 15,134
@dcguy73
I haven't had any problems with the pads, been using the Bendy Head for more than a year. There are stands that hold the band and don't touch the pads, though it always seems to me those are bad on the band (especially the leather of the HEK).
I'm happy with it, haven't had a problem, but if you're nervous, the owner does seem to be accommodating. I like it.
 
Mar 5, 2018 at 3:58 PM Post #9,891 of 15,134
TonyNewman said:
"... over-wide soundstage..." Never found that an issue with my HEKv2, but then I don't find the HD800/HD800S soundstage over-wide either.
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It's not the width itself I have a problem with - it's a kind of "hole in the middle" effect where the main central images aren't as as well defined and bold as they could be. And images on the far edges sometimes appear to be coming directly out from the drivers, instead of being fully integrated with the whole soundstage. This is of course recording dependant. On some recordings it doesn't matter, on some it matters a lot. It's not until I tried cross-feed for a while and then switched it off that I realised how un-natural some recordings can be on headphones. Before that point I would have agreed with you - and I originally chose the HEK over otheres when no CF was involved.

The other improvement that intelligent CF can add is a greater perception of depth. I've tried a few simple CF solutions and they don't do much. Roon's CFs are ok but at a cost of transperency IMO. DAVE's is good. There may be better still but I don't know about them. DAVE's CF has a by-product of boosting low frequencies (in order to maintain correct phase - or something like that - I don't claim to understand it all). Which has an impact on EQ, but more about that later.
 
Mar 6, 2018 at 12:06 AM Post #9,892 of 15,134
dcguy73 said:
Okay, I got the Bendy Head Pro headphone stand, which looks great and really holds my HE1000s firmly, but I'm worried about it compressing the pads because the headphones really hug the stand closely. I wouldn't complain if it were cheaper, but for $129 I'd prefer a quality stand with which I'm pretty satisfied.

I called Bendy Head and talked to the owner about returning it. He was really nice on the phone and was surprised that I would want to return it, as supposedly I'm his first customer to ask for that. He did say I could return it for a refund if I was unsatisfied.

I feel pretty bad now about returning it. Are you completely satisfied with your Bendy Head?
Click to expand...

My HE-1000v2 hang from a Sennheiser HE-1 (I think) headphone support which is attached to one of the shelves of my rack. The only light pressure is from the headphones weight on the headband. I think this is acceptable and better than compressing the earpads. Not sure if the Sennheiser HE-1 is currently available. Had mine for quite a while.
 
Mar 6, 2018 at 7:40 AM Post #9,893 of 15,134
Below are the Roon EQ settings for my HEK V2. I used technical data as a start point (e.g. any FR graphs I could find), but final adjustment was always done subjectively, primarily (but not solely) using female vocals as a guide. My primary (but not sole) objective was to reduce the effect of hotly recorded vocals (including sibilance) without over-smoothing the overall sound.

The first change is the 3db dip centred around 8.3khz to remove a perceived thinness to the sound. From the FR graphs I've seen, the HEK V1 would benefit even more than the V2 does in this lower treble area.

upload_2018-3-6_12-42-57.png


The next band I've changed is a small 0.5db boost centred around 1.9khz. This didn't subjectively affect tonal balance much, but did add "body" to female vocals and just about everything else. I've only added this band quite recently, so still experimenting with this one, as well as its affect on the other bands. Curious that the fundamental male/femail vocal range is below 1Khz, so I guess something else is going on (e.g. harmonics) that is affecting the perceived "body" of the vocals.

The 3rd band reduction at low frequencies is purely to counteract the bass boost that is a by-product of DAVE's cross-feed function (this example is for the most extreme setting CF=3). I wouldn't bother with this change if I wasn't using CF. Curiously, the subjective bass response didn't seem to be affected as much as mid-range transparency did when I changed this band. I don't know if the end result exactly balances out the CF boost - probably not, I just went for what sounded best.

The above graph scale has a range of only 24db, so it magnifies any changes. The 60db scale below more realstically represents the volumes we listen at (I listen typically around 70db), and shows that these adjustments are really quite minor in practice.

upload_2018-3-6_12-43-29.png


I'm not claiming that these are the only EQ changes that are worthwhile, but my motto is to avoid any DSP unless I can clearly hear the benefit - I don't go looking for changes if I'm happy with the current result. YMMV, particularly as I've found that tiny adjustments matter. E.g. changing the mid boost from say 1.9Khz to 2.0Khz was detrimental. Also, each band's frequency/amplitude/Q combination can affect the settings for another band's combination.

All this implies that the HEK is extremely sensitive to tiny upstream changes. Or it could just mean that I have an extremely vivid imagination :)
 
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Mar 6, 2018 at 9:05 AM Post #9,894 of 15,134
I thought there was a narrow treble band around about 9kish that stands out, and yours is 8.3kish, there is an abrupt peak there, but overall the treble quantity isn't too much for me. I don't know why you lowered the sub-bass, that I would say is one of the biggest highlight of the HEK. I liked it the way it is, but I guess it sounds more present than what people are used to. I just think HEK's bass is that linear to sub-bass.
 
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Mar 6, 2018 at 2:13 PM Post #9,895 of 15,134
I've tried to explain (and seemingly failed) that the lowering of the sub bass is only there to counteract the artificial bass boost that is a by-product of DAVE's cross-feed function. End result is that bass is approximately back to where it was originally before cross-feed. I only switch this EQ band on if I'm using CF, which is most of the time.
 
Mar 6, 2018 at 2:29 PM Post #9,896 of 15,134
Anyone here feels HD800/HD800s sounds a little more natural to the HeK? I own the HD800s and HeK, and I love them both. They are both amazing. The HeK is technical better for sure, better clarity, separation, bass extension, but the HD800s sounds like I’m listening in the studio. This may be amp dependent but it’s just my observation. I guess in a way they compliment each other very well. After owning a wide variety of TOTL cans, I ended up with these 2.
 
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Mar 6, 2018 at 3:04 PM Post #9,897 of 15,134
gordec said:
Anyone here feels HD800/HD800s sounds a little more natural to the HeK? I own the HD800s and HeK, and I love them both. They are both amazing. The HeK is technical better for sure, better clarity, separation, bass extension, but the HD800s sounds like I’m listening in the studio. This may be amp dependent but it’s just my observation. I guess in a way they compliment each other very well. After owning a wide variety of TOTL cans, I ended up with these 2.
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I have a ported HEKv2 and HD800S. Love em both via my custom 300B amp and GS-X Mk2. Both excellent headphones IMHO, but quite different presentations. HEK is more laid back and relaxed. HD800S is much more 'alive' and direct. Sometimes I will prefer one over the other based on the music I am listening to. Sometimes it would just be what mood I am in. I very much appreciate having both.

Put a gun to my head and make me choose just one and it would perhaps be the HEKv2. It is perhaps a bit more versatile / flexible in its use. I still love my HD800S, particularly from my tube amp.
 
Mar 6, 2018 at 3:42 PM Post #9,898 of 15,134
gordec said:
Anyone here feels HD800/HD800s sounds a little more natural to the HeK? I own the HD800s and HeK, and I love them both. They are both amazing. The HeK is technical better for sure, better clarity, separation, bass extension, but the HD800s sounds like I’m listening in the studio. This may be amp dependent but it’s just my observation. I guess in a way they compliment each other very well. After owning a wide variety of TOTL cans, I ended up with these 2.
Click to expand...

The HEK V2 is the only headphone I’ve personally heard that I like more than the HD800S. And it’s for the exact same reasons that Tony stated above. They’re more laid back and just technically better all around. Sometimes the 800S is a little bright to me.
 
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Mar 6, 2018 at 5:35 PM Post #9,899 of 15,134
Hifiearspeakers said:
The HEK V2 is the only headphone I’ve perpsnally heard that I like more than the HD800S. And it’s for the exact same reasons that Tony stated above. They’re more laid back and just technically better all around. Sometimes the 800S is a little bright to me.
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I’m a one headphone, one IEM kind of guy. I’m kind of torn right now. I may just keep both. :)
 
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