[SilverEars]

Just out of curiosity, do you all know what area of the treble region that effects your ears the most?

 

[gordec]

Just out of curiosity, do you all know what area of the treble region that effects your ears the most?

Everyone is sightly different. Everyone's ear canal, ear drum and ossicles have different fundamental frequency, so your perception and sensitivity varies. I'm an ENT.

 

[SilverEars]

Everyone is sightly different. Everyone's ear canal, ear drum and ossicles have different fundamental frequency, so your perception and sensitivity varies. I'm an ENT.

I've been searching for papers on differences in hearing sensitivities between people. Do you know of papers or where I can get more details?

When you said HD800 sounded natural to you, that didn't make sense to me. To me, the tonality sounds a bit metallic due to how I hear the treble. It's probably due to my ears being more sensitive to 6-9k, and if I hear more there, tonality sounds unnatural. At least that's the way I can make sense of it.

 

[phaeton70]

The adapter is recommended for amplifiers of 100 watts or higher to protect the headphones. In the case of the MHA100 it produces 50 watts/ch @ 8 ohms which is about 5 watts at the 90 ohms of the HEK. My Wells Enigma or my PrimaLuna have higher output than that so as long as you keep your speaker amp at aournd 50-70 watts/ch at 8 ohms the headphones should be safe.

umh.. afaik the HEKv1 (and v2) have a 35ohm driver. it is confirmed on the HFM site https://www.hifiman.com/products/detail/267 and also by measurements you can find online.
50W/8ohm means 11.4W/35ohm , which is reasonable (*) btw and do not force to use the resistive network (this is actually the adapter) that IME introduce lack of dynamics and somewhat less controlled bass. I fully agree that amplifier until 70W are safe (but in any case, also for low power amps, suggest you attach/detach the hp after/before you switch on/off the amplifier, to avoid any bump or dc), I would say that if you are careful enough, also a 100W is safe, but then you may find some hum, depending on the amp.

(*) given the real sensitivity of the HEKv1 which is around 86db/mW (again, see measurements you can find online). just for comparison, the real sensitivity of the 1266 is slightly higher :-o

 

[dcguy73]

I own the v1 that I personally prefer. I even bought the v2 ear pads but went back to the v1 pads. IMO these headphones as long as are well powered sound really good with many different amplifiers. I personally used them with 3 different ones.
In one system the source is an Aurender N10 connected via XLR digital (Nordost Heimdall II) to a Bricasti M1 SE DAC which is the source to a Wells Audio Enigma (with upgrades almost to Headtrip level) using WireWorld Eclipse 7 interconnects.
The second system servers is an Aurender N100H connected via USB (Nordost Heimdall II) to a Bricasti M1 SE DAC which is the source to a PrimaLune Dialogue Premium HP via RCA (Nordost Heimdall II) and a McIntosh MHA100 vis XLR (WireWorld Eclipse 6). With them MHA100 I can drive them from the headphones output or using the speaker tabs too.

The headphone cables I most use with them are the Nordost Heimdall II or Dana Cables Lazuli Reference. There is a slight difference in the sound depending on the cables. The Nordost provides more openness and air while the Dana provides more body without take away any detail.

Which amp is better? To be honest it is splitting hairs but if you push me to pick one only I would probably pick the Enigma but again it is splitting hairs.

Wow, I wish I could afford an audio setup like yours. I'm sure the HE1000s sound great with your audio chain. I'm just trying to get them to sound decent with my much more modest system.

 

[musicman59]

umh.. afaik the HEKv1 (and v2) have a 35ohm driver. it is confirmed on the HFM site https://www.hifiman.com/products/detail/267 and also by measurements you can find online.
50W/8ohm means 11.4W/35ohm , which is reasonable (*) btw and do not force to use the resistive network (this is actually the adapter) that IME introduce lack of dynamics and somewhat less controlled bass. I fully agree that amplifier until 70W are safe (but in any case, also for low power amps, suggest you attach/detach the hp after/before you switch on/off the amplifier, to avoid any bump or dc), I would say that if you are careful enough, also a 100W is safe, but then you may find some hum, depending on the amp.

(*) given the real sensitivity of the HEKv1 which is around 86db/mW (again, see measurements you can find online). just for comparison, the real sensitivity of the 1266 is slightly higher :-o

My bad. 90 is the sensitivity the impedance is 35 */- 3 ohms.

 

[SilverEars]

Similar to headphone output at high gain. Volume at about 25-30% for me. I love to hear the Utopia with this setup. I know you are enjoying yours. .

I just realized something. What volume I have on Bryston depends on if the signal is fed balanced or not. When I feed it single ended compared to balanced, the volume knob is about twice of balanced. I know yours is much meatier in power compared to my Bryston, so ours having same volume level makes no sense. You are probably feeding in single ended, but I'm feeding in balanced out of the DAC, which has stronger signal output. Although, generally the SE compared to balanced DAC output have difference in signal levels, even differences between different single ended ones or balanced could vary in strength of the signal output. Also depends on the input sensitivity of the amp as well. I know the RNHP has different input sensitivity depending on which input you use.

 

[dcguy73]

Wow, the HE1000v2s can be very revealing. I didn't realize that there would be such a gap between them and the HEXv2s, but the HEXv2s are much more forgiving of less-than-perfect recordings than the HE1000s. I guess that you want your TOTL headphones to be very discerning, but even with an OCC cable, my HE1000v2s really shine a light on the weaknesses in my system.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Wow, the HE1000v2s can be very revealing. I didn't realize that there would be such a gap between them and the HEXv2s, but the HEXv2s are much more forgiving of less-than-perfect recordings than the HE1000s. I guess that you want your TOTL headphones to be very discerning, but even with an OCC cable, my HE1000v2s really shine a light on the weaknesses in my system.

I knew you would see the huge difference with time. They’re really not that similar. After hearing the HEK V2, I could never be satisfied with the HEX again. In fact, the HEK has ruined a lot of headphones for me. I love them.

 

[SilverEars]

I knew you would see the huge difference with time. They’re really not that similar. After hearing the HEK V2, I could never be satisfied with the HEX again. In fact, the HEK has ruined a lot of headphones for me. I love them.

Just by the efficiency spec alone you know they are completely different drivers. I recall seeing Zeos Pantera's review stating they look pretty much identical other than the material difference of the cups. This was the case with other Hifiman models, and they have differences in performance levels.

I tried the HEK fed from the SE headphone out of DAVE, and didn't find it to be the right match(although with Utopia, very good). DAVE has a bit of a narrow tonality, which is heard pretty strongly with the HEK, and that's not what you want with HEK as it tends to sound a bit linear in the bass without mid-bass emphasis you typically find for open headphone(more so for drivers that are not planars, in the dynamic driver domain). In addition to it sounding quite airy, the overall impression I get is a bit of a U response due to the sub-bass performance(which I found to be quite distinguishing characteristic of the HEK). Do to this, people probably want to give it something that pushes mid body.

Compared to the Utopia, with the HEK I did much more music exploring because the sound was so interesting with the large planar driver, so spaciousness of it's sound was so different from what I've experience before, and the bass, the sub-bass with it being a fast planar, made electronic music very clear, dynamic, sounding generally very interesting do to the spacial sounds and separation. For electronic music, sounds had largely noticeable depth and spaciousness, and generally electronic music push out good level of bass, and that showed off the HEK's bass performance(and the bass dynamics which is a real treat with them).

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Just by the efficiency spec alone you know they are completely different drivers. I recall seeing Zeos Pantera's review stating they look pretty much identical other than the material difference of the cups. This was the case with other Hifiman models, and they have differences in performance levels.

I tried the HEK fed from the SE headphone out of DAVE, and didn't find it to be the right match(although with Utopia, very good). DAVE has a bit of a narrow tonality, which is heard pretty strongly with the HEK, and that's not what you want with HEK as it tends to sound a bit linear in the bass without mid-bass emphasis you typically find for open headphone(more so for drivers that are not planars, in the dynamic driver domain). In addition to it sounding quite airy, the overall impression I get is a bit of a U response due to the sub-bass performance(which I found to be quite distinguishing characteristic of the HEK). Do to this, people probably want to give it something that pushes mid body.

Compared to the Utopia, with the HEK I did much more music exploring because the sound was so interesting with the large planar driver, so spaciousness of it's sound was so different from what I've experience before, and the bass, the sub-bass with it being a fast planar, made electronic music very clear, dynamic, sounding generally very interesting do to the spacial sounds and separation. For electronic music, sounds had largely noticeable depth and spaciousness, and generally electronic music push out good level of bass, and that showed off the HEK's bass performance(and the bass dynamics which is a real treat with them).

Interesting take by you. I primarily listened to the 800S before I bought the HEK and as awesome as that headphone is, it definitely has mildly recessed mids. So to my ears, I don’t find the mids recessed at all on the HEK, because they’re clearly more forward than the 800S.
I hear you when you talk about the sub bass. The HEK has phenomenal sub bass. At first, I also thought it may have a slight U shape because of it. But I don’t think that anymore. Now I think it’s just more accurate than most headphones, especially open back. I think that sub bass is so poorly reproduced on most headphones, that we come to expect it to be rolled off and then equate that as being neutral. But whatever truly neutral is, no frequency range can be rolled off and still be called neutral, in my opinion.

 

[SilverEars]

HD800(s) has a bit of a lean characteristic probably due to the upper mid cut to increase clarity.

 

[TheAttorney]

I tried the HEK fed from the SE headphone out of DAVE, and didn't find it to be the right match (although with Utopia, very good). DAVE has a bit of a narrow tonality, which is heard pretty strongly with the HEK, and that's not what you want with HEK as it tends to sound a bit linear in the bass without mid-bass emphasis you typically find for open headphone(more so for drivers that are not planars, in the dynamic driver domain). In addition to it sounding quite airy, the overall impression I get is a bit of a U response due to the sub-bass performance(which I found to be quite distinguishing characteristic of the HEK). Do to this, people probably want to give it something that pushes mid body..

This just goes to show how different people can have opposite perceptions (in this case of DAVE/HEK/Utopia). I've stated before that DAVE + HEK V2 is a match made in heaven - partly becuase the HEK scales well with high transparency upstream, and partly because, for me, it benefits enormously from DAVE's cross-feed function to tighten up the over-wide soundstage. Whereas I found that DAVE direct drive did expose some shortcomings of the Utopia, which did benefit from an outboard amp to soften it up a bit, and the Utopia's narrow (but precise) soundstage didn't benefit from cross-feed as much as the HEK did.

That doesn't mean that DAVE + HEK V2 is perfect. Nothing is. Apart from the cross-feed, I've found that some EQ helps give body (and reduce some thinness) to HEK's presentation. In the next day or so, I'll post my EQ settings for HEK V2 (these will be updated versions of those prevously posted on the HEK Impressions thread). With basically 2 settings, I feel I have my HEK V2's tonality at a point where nothing at all is lacking in this department.

BTW, what does "narrow tonality" mean?

 

[TonyNewman]

"... over-wide soundstage..." Never found that an issue with my HEKv2, but then I don't find the HD800/HD800S soundstage over-wide either.

 

[SilverEars]

This just goes to show how different people can have opposite perceptions (in this case of DAVE/HEK/Utopia). I've stated before that DAVE + HEK V2 is a match made in heaven - partly becuase the HEK scales well with high transparency upstream, and partly because, for me, it benefits enormously from DAVE's cross-feed function to tighten up the over-wide soundstage. Whereas I found that DAVE direct drive did expose some shortcomings of the Utopia, which did benefit from an outboard amp to soften it up a bit, and the Utopia's narrow (but precise) soundstage didn't benefit from cross-feed as much as the HEK did.

That doesn't mean that DAVE + HEK V2 is perfect. Nothing is. Apart from the cross-feed, I've found that some EQ helps give body (and reduce some thinness) to HEK's presentation. In the next day or so, I'll post my EQ settings for HEK V2 (these will be updated versions of those prevously posted on the HEK Impressions thread). With basically 2 settings, I feel I have my HEK V2's tonality at a point where nothing at all is lacking in this department.

BTW, what does "narrow tonality" mean?

The way you describe HEK out of DAVE coincides with my meaning of narrow tonality. I mean it sounds toward the thin side and the general tonality sounded like to be the case(not so much body). Sounds are tonality different from other amps in such manner, but for the Utopia, it was fitting. I found DAVE makes Utopia shine in comparison, reduces the possibilities of fitigue with it's treble response like I described previously.