[saidentary]

 
The EF-6 and MicroZOTL 2 are not Amp/DAC's just to clarify Saidentary's solid recommendation. They are amps only, so you'd still need a DAC.

Yes, that's correct.  (I missed that one.....)   Eagle-eyed goldenarko! 

 

 

[doctorjazz]

Going down in price, many love the Liquid Carbon/HEK combination...I have the ZOTL2, the RSA-HR-2, and the LC, and I like the ZOTL best of the 3, but still burning the LC in, and at $599, considerably less than the other 2 (which are considerably less than much of the other mentioned amps), and it does perform quite admirably, from my brief audition. More impressions to come when I have time to listen more "seriously" (no smiles allowed ), when burn in is done (probably the weekend).

 

[goldendarko]

 
Yes, that's correct.  (I missed that one.....)   Eagle-eyed goldenarko! 

 

No problem, just didn't want him to pick one up and be dissapointed if he was expecting it to be a DAC too. Both are supposed to have great synergy as Amps from what I've read though.

 

[drez]

Interesting reviews in some ways. But  I basically only listen to acoustic music which  IS THE ONE AND ONLY REFERENCE to me. The problem with most reviews imo is that they basically never  include that true reference of what HIFI is all about.. Almost all reviewers use only pop,rock heavy  metal and whatever, all of which is utterly artifical and electronic and contains loads of inherent distortions in the music itself. I don't understand why so few reviewers seem to listen to acoustic music. From these two reviews included in the links there is only one: Enya, that I even know of.
Yes she makes nice soothing music and all .But I would never ever use her albums for SQ  evaluation of any HI FI equipment. She uses loads and loads of dub on layer upon layer of dubbing that sounds more forgiving  on less revealing equipment than via real HIFI.
I have to admit though that Headphonics review came to basically the same initial conclusions I did from  my so far only 2-3 hours of auditioning a new set of HE1000 comparing it to my trusted HD 800 via HUGO.

So true. Some music just wont show how well or poorly gear performs. My classic useless demo track is Rebecca Pigeon Spanish Harlem. Utterly useless for evaluating gear. I just read a review where he used that track and surprisingly couldn't tell between the gear LOL.

But yeah lots of other music doesn't have much to reveal, but maybe chosen to hide performance flaws or be diplomatic. Or possibly because people listen to that stuff and want a recognisable reference. I like heavy metal but wouldn't use most recordings in a demo or review. Maybe those HD Dream Theatre albums or Opeth/Steve Wilson.

Anyway back on topic yeah I dont get the snare drum thing. The pair I heard the snare was actually a bit forward and unnaturally stiff. Midrange timbre is nice and natural but the snares and uneven treble undo this a bit.

 

[reeltime]

  I am liking the HE1000 but I think my Woo Audio WA7 amp/DAC with WA7tp is a bit inadequate for these cans, it drives HD800 and LCD-XC with ease but doesn't feel quite as effortlessly in charge with HE1000.  A bit if a silly oversimplified question, I know, but how much would I benefit from moving on to a more powerful amp (been looking at Schiit Rargnarok/Yggdrasil combo)?  I listen both to uncompressed flac files as well as Spotify.  Or is there another amp/DAC I should consider?  Budget is flexible (say under $4K) but of course if I can get away with paying less - all the better.  Will this be a massive improvement or somewhat incremental and will this be any improvement at all for compressed music like mp3s and Spotify streams?

I'm surprised you're getting any kind of decent sound out of the WA7 with the HD800.  When I had my HD800 paired with a WA6, the HD650 sounded better than the HD800.  
 
While a lesser amp is capable of producing sound from the cans-- these higher end headphones don't start coming into their own (showing their amazing resolving power, soundstage and heft at the ends of the frequency spectrum) until you throw down serious amplification, generally.  I've found both the HE1000 and HD800 prefer an abundance of high quality, clean power.
 
Sort of like putting a 4-cylinder engine in a Lambroghini Diablo.

 

[musicman59]

 
MHA100 is an Amp/DAC that supposedly pairs well with the HE1000, though I haven't heard it myself. It retails for $4500 new, but I've seen a few under 4k on the Used listings. I have the Oppo HA-1 and find it powers the HE1000 quite well, not end game or anything, but I picked mine up for $800 and I don't think I could ask for anything more than it brings to the table, sonically and in term of features/design.

I own the MHA100 and the HE1000 and love the combo (I don't use the internal DAC of the MHA100 since I own also a Bricasti M1). Another great AMP/Dac unit is the Moon 430ha.

 

[m8o]

I just ordered he1000
Can you guys recommened me some of the best amps under 6000?

I have the McIntosh MHA100 and will likewise attest to its excellence with the he1k, or anything for that matter. But how about a recommendation for well under 600 (used) rather than 6000?

Find a used Perreaux SXH1 or SXH2. It was sitting idly by in my rack since I got the HM and McIntosh. Decided to plug into it a few days ago and was really suprised and blown away. Not to repeat or cross-post, see my comments about it in the HE1000 Impression thread.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

So true. Some music just wont show how well or poorly gear performs. My classic useless demo track is Rebecca Pigeon Spanish Harlem. Utterly useless for evaluating gear. I just read a review where he used that track and surprisingly couldn't tell between the gear LOL.

But yeah lots of other music doesn't have much to reveal, but maybe chosen to hide performance flaws or be diplomatic. Or possibly because people listen to that stuff and want a recognisable reference. I like heavy metal but wouldn't use most recordings in a demo or review. Maybe those HD Dream Theatre albums or Opeth/Steve Wilson.

Anyway back on topic yeah I dont get the snare drum thing. The pair I heard the snare was actually a bit forward and unnaturally stiff. Midrange timbre is nice and natural but the snares and uneven treble undo this a bit.

Interesting comments in both your post ("Spanish Harlwm") and the one you quote (Enya) on how unsuited some acoustic songs are for assessing headphones, yet that acoustic music is the best music for such assessment.

What acoustic music do you find to be good for assessing headphone sound quality?

 

[drez]

Interesting comments in both your post ("Spanish Harlwm") and the one you quote (Enya) on how unsuited some acoustic songs are for assessing headphones, yet that acoustic music is the best music for such assessment.

What acoustic music do you find to be good for assessing headphone sound quality?

I generally find anything classical does a good job. For acoustic music anything with some treble, bass or syncopation helps eg vocal jazz or whatever. I find it's pretty easy to make vocals and guitar sound "nice". Maybe if the vocals are well recorded with a lot of inflection and other detail captured, maybe some real room acoustics, but yeah thats still oretty easy midrange only stuff.

I think a lot of hifi stores and show booths use amber ruth etc because it is less likely to show gear flaws and sounds "nice". Some Opera can be useful especially where there is more than just vocal. I think HD 800 demo disk is pretty good.

But if [vocal music] is all one listens to then no problem using it for demo. I think vocal music demo would not show shortcomings of HE1000 so for pure vocal listener it could be perfect.

 

[doctorjazz]

Don't agree, there is lots of back and forth on this, experts can and do disagree on what is a good reference. (it's one of those subjects, like burn in, high resolution, analog versus digital, that never goes away and has strong opinions on either side that talk part each other). Very little music is recorded in a "pure" way, single mike, real room ambience (and, they actually sometimes are boring sounding). I think lots of folks know the sound of a fender strat, say, and can get a good sense of the sound quality from that. I also think unless you were there in the recording studio, you have no real idea what the acoustic music you are listening to actually sounded like-most music is "sweetened" in the mix, space added, image placement adjusted. I have actually found a particular "bad" recording very useful for evaluating resolution of gear...All Time Low's "Somewhere in Neverland", which, like most of their music, is recorded to be a muddy mass of smudged sound, can be heard with good gear, so that arpeggios, bass lines, vocal lines, which congeal on lesser equipment, are easily differentiated on good gear (knocked my 17 year old daughter, who is an ATL devotee, to hear what was actually recorded on the track). So, don't think 1 size fits all in evaluating gear, and I think hardly anyone actually knows what a recording ACTUALLY sounded like in the recording studio (assuming the musicians actually all WERE in the studio at the same time).
my $0.02...

 

[drez]

I'm not even looking for a reference though. I'm looking for something to show differenves. I don't believe there is a perfect sound or one size fits all. That's why I said if vocal music is what u mostly listen to then its a valid demo if that's all you care about.

If you want to evaluate/review gear not just select it for personal preference then something more than vocals or pop might be useful. Sure throw in a vocal track to evaluate that aspect of midrange performance. I just don't use pure vocal midrangey music for demo because I don't find it useful given my limited time and concentration/fatigue. I don't want to buy something without evaluating it fully.

Anyway I feel I might get scolded by everyone for the O/T.

 

[saidentary]

I'm not even looking for a reference though. I'm looking for something to show differenves. I don't believe there is a perfect sound or one size fits all. That's why I said if vocal music is what u mostly listen to then its a valid demo if that's all you care about.

If you want to evaluate/review gear not just select it for personal preference then something more than vocals or pop might be useful. Sure throw in a vocal track to evaluate that aspect of midrange performance. I just don't use pure vocal midrangey music for demo because I don't find it useful given my limited time and concentration/fatigue. I don't want to buy something without evaluating it fully.
 

 
Something the listener is familiar with.  It helps if the person is a musician, so they know what real music and instruments sound like.  IMO.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

I use four pieces to perform a total of 10 comparisons, using specific snippets of each. These include the Rebecca Pidgeon "Spanish Harlem" from the Chesky Ultimate Demonstration Disk, that was mentioned in drez post. That particular song is used for two of the 10 tests... one that listens to the details of the attack of the finger on a plucked string bass, and one that listens to the degree of variation on the shaker that starts in the third verse (a test suggested by Chesky on the recording). It actually is a recording with sort of a hooty resonance in her voice that shows up on some, but not all, headphones.

The other snippets come from Band of Heathens "You're Going To Miss Me When I'm Gone" (for drum twang, soundstage, positional resolution, and transparency), maael's of Saint Saens Organ Symphony (#3), for the ripping buzzing of brass and discernment of a small chord added to a roaring organ and orchestra, and B.o.B.'s "Throwback," for subbass below 50 Hz. More details are I either of the posts in my signature.

 

[drez]

I use four pieces to perform a total of 10 comparisons, using specific snippets of each. These include the Rebecca Pidgeon "Spanish Harlem" from the Chesky Ultimate Demonstration Disk, that was mentioned in drez post. That particular song is used for two of the 10 tests... one that listens to the details of the attack of the finger on a plucked string bass, and one that listens to the degree of variation on the shaker that starts in the third verse (a test suggested by Chesky on the recording). It actually is a recording with sort of a hooty resonance in her voice that shows up on some, but not all, headphones.

The other snippets come from Band of Heathens "You're Going To Miss Me When I'm Gone" (for drum twang, soundstage, positional resolution, and transparency), maael's of Saint Saens Organ Symphony (#3), for the ripping buzzing of brass and discernment of a small chord added to a roaring organ and orchestra, and B.o.B.'s "Throwback," for subbass below 50 Hz. More details are I either of the posts in my signature.

If I may backpedal a whole lot... I havent had that album on my music server for a while... Your post did prompt me to dig up the album and there is a lot of detail on there on my home system. Not so much at the hifi store.

OTOH shame on u for making me listen to Spanish Harlem 5 more times than I would otherwise have preferred . Now I can put it to rest having corrected my opinion and listen to music I like

 

[Articnoise]

A mix of different kind of music that I am familiar with give me the best information on how a gear sounds like. Some records that are borderline harsh, lean, bombastic, one not etc etc are often useful to listen to as well, not only the perfectly sounded ones. I would say it’s the ones that can handle also the borderline songs that best let me know if the gear is going to be to my liking or not. This is most important if demo in a store or show.

 

As Drez said some of the songs that are often used in demos are quite easy to get to sound at least okay. I use them as well for tonality, clarity, transparency, image and so on. Some more demanding songs with a lot going on at full speed is good to use for technicalities like dynamic, speed, separation, power, articulation etc.