[Twain250]

yes flag ships are gearwd towards accurate mids and highs.. to achieve this. The bass suffers

 
"yes flag ships are geared towards accurate mids and highs"
Not correct -those models truly aspiring to be of flagship status will be endeavouring to be tonally accurate
for all areas of reproduction -ie: Bass, Mids and Highs.
 
"...to achieve this. The bass suffers"
Again, not correct. 
At least, it doesn't have to be that way -and it certainly can't be said that this a general rule.
 
However it might be correct to make the observation that the current generations of high end models that
particularly excel with imaging can appear to be less substantial in bass reproduction though.
 
Cheers

 

[Kyno]

  Am I the only one who thinks that the Focuspads are crap? I listened to the HE-560 with Focuspads 5 hours straight and was close to send them back.
Just switched to the "old" pleather and velour pads and now I'm falling in love with them. With Focuspads they are way too agressive for my liking.

 

 
Not being too familiar with Hifiman, where did the old come from?

 

[Articnoise]

The hardest thing for a pair of speakers is to reproduce and intergrade the low bass to the rest of the sound without making it less clear and precise. The deep bass have a lot of energy and can easily negatively interferes with both the middle and high bass in the same driver and other driver true the cabinet/baffle and also the power consumption/negative feedback from the amp. It is why most speakers use different diaphragm for different frequencies. The low bass operate with so much energy that it can be heard true very thick concrete walls.
 
The HE 560 as many other headphones are only using one diaphragm to play all frequencies at the same time and the lower the bass and the more bass amount that it can play, the further the diaphragm have to move. The move on the diaphragm is exponential to the frequencies.
 
To create a speaker or headphone that sound good with roll off bass is IMO much, much easier when to get them to do so without rolling off the bass or to let them roll off at lower frequencies, caeteris paribus.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Am I the only one who thinks that the Focuspads are crap? I listened to the HE-560 with Focuspads 5 hours straight and was close to send them back.
Just switched to the "old" pleather and velour pads and now I'm falling in love with them. With Focuspads they are way too agressive for my liking.

 

Different strokes for different folks as they say. I have no issues with my stock Focus pads, I rather like them. Now I am careful in that I quite despise poor recordings and whether with speakers or headphones, I avoid a poor recording like the plague. So maybe if I was listening to aggressive edgy music I would feel the same. If I was really wanting to hear such recordings I would simply get a mid-tier headphone with a rolled-off, warmish signature. Interesting that so many people here find the pads that much different, I am surprised that pads can make so much difference, but I don't doubt they do either. I don't pad roll so I couldn't compare myself.

 

[Ekul61]

"yes flag ships are geared towards accurate mids and highs"
Not correct -those models truly aspiring to be of flagship status will be endeavouring to be tonally accurate
for all areas of reproduction -ie: Bass, Mids and Highs.

"...to achieve this. The bass suffers"
Again, not correct. 
At least, it doesn't have to be that way -and it certainly can't be said that this a general rule.

However it might be correct to make the observation that the current generations of high end models that
particularly excel with imaging can appear to be less substantial in bass reproduction though.

Cheers

I think you are mostly correct.. still the raved about bass the lcd2 and he400 had.was minimized in the new models. Why would a company take its best feature away. Wrong or right many likesd the old bass.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I think you are mostly correct.. still the raved about bass the lcd2 and he400 had.was minimized in the new models. Why would a company take its best feature away. Wrong or right many likesd the old bass.

Likely because consumer trends were moving toward a different presentation of bass being preferred. That is what I observe, a trend toward perhaps less, but more articulate bass among upper mid, and top-tier headphones.

 

[Ekul61]

Likely because consumer trends were moving toward a different presentation of bass being preferred. That is what I observe, a trend toward perhaps less, but more articulate bass among upper mid, and top-tier headphones.

im starting to notice the bass is more decreased in the mids creating a clear and cold midrange.. but this is with the 400i from everything ive read the 560 arent much different. I will tr a pair soon

 

[jaxz]

  Dancing with the Total Harmonic Dragon...
 

 
I'm really enjoying this pairing with the HE-560 right now. 

 
Hi. What do you think about the pairing? enough power? sinergy?
 
Cheers!

 

[Sonic Defender]

im starting to notice the bass is more decreased in the mids creating a clear and cold midrange.. but this is with the 400i from everything ive read the 560 arent much different. I will tr a pair soon

Clear yes, not sure I would say cold, but we all have different perceptions and preferences. Good you will try them, but make sure you do so over a period of time, not just hours, but over a few days for sure. Ideally you should give your brain a week to acclimatize to a new sound signature. Cheers.

 

[Frank I]

Fang had his new EF100 prototype there in Denver. Awesome amp 9W- doing both headphones and speakers and had single tube-hybrid. Sounded very promising.

 

[Twain250]

I think you are mostly correct.. still the raved about bass the lcd2 and he400 had.was minimized in the new models. Why would a company take its best feature away. Wrong or right many likesd the old bass.

 
Well I can’t speak for the companies concerned; but I’m guessing that both companies were encouraged by the reception of their products when they first came out -where about 50 % of the audience liked the strong bass, and about 50% didn’t (approximately).
 
But they wanted to achieve better acceptance than that for new models -and to also keep going point-for-point against the companies they are in competition with.  And both companies judged (quite correctly in my opinion) that the best way to compete was to make their products more natural / neutral sounding for forthcoming new models (the Holy Grail) -and even improve the imaging while they are at it if they can.
 
Ergo, we have LCD-3F, LCD-X, and even altered LCD-2’s –and of course the very interesting HE 560, the subject of this thread (and also the subject of my interest ATM).
 
Cheers

 

[tuna47]

I feel if you want over the top bass, there are many good bass head phones on the market. I like accurate presentations so prefer the signature of the 560

 

[Bill-P]

im starting to notice the bass is more decreased in the mids creating a clear and cold midrange.. but this is with the 400i from everything ive read the 560 arent much different. I will tr a pair soon

 
I'd say the HE-560 is very different.
 
I am sure you have heard of Audio Technica wood headphones that sound warm and thick, and sometimes too congested with midrange?
 
The HE-560 actually has the same warm and thick midrange... except it has the speed to keep that midrange from feeling congested. I'm enjoying the HE-560 even with K-pop and J-pop, which is more than I can say for a lot of other headphones that focus on details and then end up butchering bad recordings.
 
The same also applies to bass. I can feel the weight and force of each bass note much the same way I have heard bass-heavy dynamic headphones for a while now, and I don't feel like I am missing much (maybe a little sub bass decay) coming from my ATH-ES10, which has been said to have way too much bass.
 
I don't think it's the fault of the headphone, rather than the faults of the audio chain to begin with. Coupling the HE-560 with an amp or DAC that slightly rolls off bass will make the roll-off that much more apparent.
 
I still retain my assessment earlier... the HE-560 is the headphone that comes closest to the sound of a pair of high-end speakers for me, personally. The HE-6 was a bit peaky in the treble range, and its bass was a bit too snappy, too, but I feel the HE-560 is "just right", with a very euphonic midrange.

 

[Rajikaru]

   
Hi. What do you think about the pairing? enough power? sinergy?
 
Cheers!

 
I have a very simple criteria for judging a headphone and amplifier pairing, and that is simply if it can render the voices of Yuriko Kuwahara and Tori Amos as beautifully as possible.  
 
This is on live recordings that I listen to everyday, and on different systems over the years, so I know them quite well. If a headphone - amplifier pairing can satisfy that requirement, I tend to be forgiving of its performance in other genres, and I'll probably enjoy it all the same regardless.
 
On that note, the HE-560 and EF5 pair is one of the best I've heard. It can compete with my STAX 2170, but deliver a different enough presentation that I'm happy to keep them both.  
 
Power-wise, I'm holding the EF5 back a bit by feeding it the 1.5V line-output from a FiiO X5. Even then, it still has more than enough power that I'll never max it out. 
 
One of these days, I'll sit down and do a detailed A/B comparison with the other gear I have on hand. 

 

[jaxz]

I have a very simple criteria for judging a headphone and amplifier pairing, and that is simply if it can render the voices of Yuriko Kuwahara and Tori Amos as beautifully as possible.  

This is on live recordings that I listen to everyday, and on different systems over the years, so I know them quite well. If a headphone - amplifier pairing can satisfy that requirement, I tend to be forgiving of its performance in other genres, and I'll probably enjoy it all the same regardless.

On that note, the HE-560 and EF5 pair is one of the best I've heard. It can compete with my STAX 2170, but deliver a different enough presentation that I'm happy to keep them both.  

Power-wise, I'm holding the EF5 back a bit by feeding it the 1.5V line-output from a FiiO X5. Even then, it still has more than enough power that I'll never max it out. 

One of these days, I'll sit down and do a detailed A/B comparison with the other gear I have on hand. 

Good to know. Thanks. I'm saving money to buy the 560 and hopping the EF-5 and/or the NFB 15 will be enough to drive them.

Cheers!