[reddog]

Yes vinyl is great, the only thing that might be better is the 5mm tape, large reel tape. A old friend of mine, was a big band player and he has some great tapes of Buddy Rich and other greats. The sound was incredible, but I prefer spinning a record and kicking back.

 

[Kyno]

I currently own HD-650 and T90, but haven't seen them mentioned a lot here (maybe for good reasons

). Since some of you might have/have had the Sennheiser/Beyerdynamic, I was wondering how he HE-560 sounded in comparaison?
 
I can get the HE-560 for 600 € instead of 900 €, but it would still double the cost of the former headphones, and I have no experience with Hifiman HPs.
 
Thanks!

 

[SBranson]

U just said something very dangerous: 24 sounding better then 16... Lolz on this thread u know u have many unbelievers about a lot of things (as on he500 thread)...so u can expect some reactions..

but my friend..i am in the same boat as u..i do also believe that 24bit or sacd do sound better then 16bit..and 16bit more then 320mp3.. And even on those two people debate about..lolz.. Oh well..people love to debate and disagree..

 
It's funny where the lines in the sand are.  I'm just starting to learn where they are on this forum.  Components can be different sounding, headphones can be different sounding and sources, at least physically, can be different sounding but until now I didn't realize that basically CDs were the pinnacle of resolution that is possible to hear.
 
Cables? no way... tweaks?... must be mad... power conditioning?... bring out the firewood and the stake.... 

 
What about tubes then? or upgrading the quality of some of the components in an amp... dare I ask?
 
I thought I was conservative but man o man, I'm a radical.

 
I'm just happy to hear that my "upgrades" are pretty significant through the HE560s and that to me is a very good quality in any piece of gear.  I'm looking forward to exploring these headphones as I feel that I have ended that side of my search for a good while..

 

[Asr]

Informal 2-Day Impressions
 
First a disclaimer here that I'm using HeadAmp's "touring" demo HE-560, which arrived in "new" condition for those who believe in burn-in (I don't, at least as far as planar magnetic headphones are concerned since there are no moving parts), and I've spent only 2 nights with so far.
 
I'll start with the positives:
- It actually fits my head, unlike the HE-400 which did not (it was too large at its smallest setting and didn't properly seal around my ears). Thanks to the headband & frame re-design, I can get the HE-560 to fully seal around my ears.
- The HE-560 is one of the few headphones that I think I could actually live with for ambient electronica. I've heard most of the flagships in- and out-of-production (Stax OII MKI, Senn HD800, Audeze LCD-2/LCD-3/LCD-X, Beyerdynamic T1, Fostex TH900, Sony Qualia 010) and out of those, the only ones that I can put up with for ambient electronica specifically are the OII MKI, HD800, and Qualia 010. Like those headphones, the HE-560 has a similar type of "clean & clear" purity that's almost required for ambient electronica, along with a soundstage large enough for the music to sound properly diffuse and spread-out. And it has a good amount of treble too, which is also necessary for my enjoyment of any headphone.
- It plays a decent variety of genres relatively well, more than the HE-400 did. Not only ambient electronica, but acoustic music in general as well (classical, bluegrass/folk—haven't tried jazz though, doubt I will), along with some synthesized music too (electronica/trip-hop, pop).
 
Negatives:
- Like the HE-400, I can't say I think it's good for music that relies on dark atmospherics or heavy male vocals, though. Massive Attack's "Inertia Creeps" for example didn't sound nearly as dark (as in style, not sonically) & creepy as it does on the Audio-Technica AD2000.
- I also found it hard to tolerate it for most of the metal that I tested that included Helloween, In Flames, Machine Head, Trivium, Insomnium, and Arch Enemy. Didn't have enough presence in the mid-bass area where the "metal" bass guitar lives to really give those bands much life. And like the HE-400 did, the HE-560 also shoved percussion to the background to the point that it routinely got obscured by other musical elements.
- The materials feel sort of cheap & chintzy for a $900 headphone.
- I still hate the HiFiMan cable. Specifically the screw-in connectors. Whose brilliant idea was it to use potentially breakable (from over-torquing) screw-in connectors when cheaper Sennheiser headphones (the HD6xx) have an easier-to-handle plug-in connector?
 
That said, the HE-560 still sounds good enough to me that I'm really interested in finding out how it'd perform on a higher-power amp, so I'm almost certainly buying my own pair to check out for a longer period of time than the 3 days we get on the HeadAmp demo program.
 
Equipment Setup
 
NAD T533 (DVD player) > HeadAmp Gilmore Lite w/ DPS > Audio-Technica AD2000 | Sennheiser HD598 | Creative Aurvana Live
 
(Downgraded to my current setup last year from Plinius CD-101 > HeadAmp GS-X MK2 > Audio-Technica AD2000 | Fostex TH900, and from before that in 2012, Plinius CD-101 > HeadAmp BHSE and GS-X MK1 > Stax OII MKI | Audeze LCD-3 | Audio-Technica AD2000 | Sennheiser HD800 | Sony Qualia 010)
 
Music Used
 
By artist: Alison Krauss & Union Station, Arch Enemy, Helloween, In Flames, Infected Mushroom, Insomnium, Julia Fischer, Katy Perry, Laika, Lucius, Machine Head, Massive Attack, Nickel Creek, Phantogram, The Crystal Method, The Haden Triplets, Trifonic, Trivium, Yggdrasil

 

[fengwei007]

  I currently own HD-650 and T90, but haven't seen them mentioned a lot here (maybe for good reasons

). Since some of you might have/have had the Sennheiser/Beyerdynamic, I was wondering how he HE-560 sounded in comparaison?
 
I can get the HE-560 for 600 € instead of 900 €, but it would still double the cost of the former headphones, and I have no experience with Hifiman HPs.
 
Thanks!

I've compared HD650 (and HD600) with HE560 side by side quite extensively (thought I'd get one of the two on top of my HE560), to be honest, the HE560s sound quite a bit better in pretty much every way, and it's so much more comfortable too. Eventually I gave up on the idea of getting an HD600/650 since I knew I wouldn't use them w/ HE560 around. 
 
I have T5p as well, which I quite like for closed back. It's probably pretty close to T90? Sorry, never heard of the T90 yet. 

 

[garunamodi]

   
It's funny where the lines in the sand are.  I'm just starting to learn where they are on this forum.  Components can be different sounding, headphones can be different sounding and sources, at least physically, can be different sounding but until now I didn't realize that basically CDs were the pinnacle of resolution that is possible to hear.
 
Cables? no way... tweaks?... must be mad... power conditioning?... bring out the firewood and the stake.... 

 
What about tubes then? or upgrading the quality of some of the components in an amp... dare I ask?
 
I thought I was conservative but man o man, I'm a radical.

 
I'm just happy to hear that my "upgrades" are pretty significant through the HE560s and that to me is a very good quality in any piece of gear.  I'm looking forward to exploring these headphones as I feel that I have ended that side of my search for a good while..

 
Here's what you should be looking for: files in up to 24bit depth are good, and you really don't want to be going over 48kHz. Higher bitdepths and sampling rate are good for mastering only. A DAC with noise below 20dB is considered the holy grail for playback. At 19-bit (the ODAC) noise is absolutely minimal and only the best ears will pick it up, and almost no-one should be able to tell a difference during playback.
 
A bit of sound-science: it is possible to perfectly recreate a waveform if the sampling rate is over twice the highest frequency. Perfectly. This is of course with the proviso that there is enough bit depth, and 16-bit is very good, 24-bit overkill. So when you can't hear above 20kHz going far above 48kHz is at the very least useless. At the worst, consider how headphones reproduce sound. It's not perfect - the energy takes time to leave the diaphragm - just a few milliseconds. Imagine, if as the diaphragm moves if it has to suddenly jerk in the opposite direction and back very quickly to reproduce a frequency you can't hear, at the expense of one you can. I'm sure you can agree that is definitely not good.
 
So CDs aren't the pinnacle of audible, but pretty damn close. Also, DACs should be as accurate as possible. I can think of no reason to get something other than an ODAC except for connectivity and portability. Cables are tricky, I personally believe there are no sonic improvements to be had from a well constructed cable (under $50 

) unless you plan on having huge lengths of cable. Similarly, balanced connections also only help for long cable lengths, like in audio production. Few amps implement it correctly, and the only benefit will be for headphones as hard to drive as the HE6 or worse.
 
In a solid-state amp accuracy is everything. Headphones should be the only thing affecting sound quality. With tubes it's like an analog EQ to tune the hp frequency response to an individual's preference. I've no idea how much tubes affect sound, but there's good reason why most money should be spent on the headphones, as they make the most difference.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

We're going off track but there's an entire thread on 16bit myth here that's been covered. It goes in depth about hearing, frequency, etc. Basically calling hi-rez files a sham. The only thing hdtrack sells are remastered albums at different rates. Some cases like MJ's latest album Xscape isn't even remastered and has the same compressed sound as the CD.

1bit DSD is another story.

 

[Kyno]

  I've compared HD650 (and HD600) with HE560 side by side quite extensively (thought I'd get one of the two on top of my HE560), to be honest, the HE560s sound quite a bit better in pretty much every way, and it's so much more comfortable too. Eventually I gave up on the idea of getting an HD600/650 since I knew I wouldn't use them w/ HE560 around. 
 
I have T5p as well, which I quite like for closed back. It's probably pretty close to T90? Sorry, never heard of the T90 yet. 

 
Thanks for the input. I'd say the T90 doesn't compete with the T5p, but it would also be nice to hear your impression against the HE-560.
 
I'm also wondering if I'm willing to spend what may be required for these HE-560. I would be more on a Bottlehead Crack and small DAC level, around $800 including the HD-650 (which is already a bit less than the HiFiMAN alone 

), whereas you seem to run them on a whole different level of equipement.
The HE-500 seemed to do already doing quite well with an amp as small as the Emotiva mini-X a-100, but I'm reading that the HE-560 is a whole different beast... it's currently the thought preventing to go for these.
 
It they already sound good and better on a small system, that'd be great, but I mostly read about them connected to really nice stuff. Anyone here with a lesser gear?

 

 

[MattTCG]

^you really need to not feed the trolls, Davidish has an opinion, it isn't gospel, or universally believed. "Go on the internet", and you will also find many opinions that the engineers at Phillips/Sony screwed the pooch by establishing a standard without fully understanding the limits of human hearing. Agree to disagree and never trust a Zealot, there are very few universal truths.

 
Thank you for your common sense. We could use more of it around here. Now let's move on. 

 

[AngryAudiophile]

Not at all happy with how Mr. Fang tuned the treble on the HE-560.  Hoped for a brighter, more beautiful flare to it.

 

[pearljam50000]

You're one angry audiophile lol

 

[TMRaven]

You might like 400i.  There' a little more upper treble sparkle there.

 

[Sonic Defender]

We all hear differently, enjoy different aspects of sound. For me, if the 560 was any brighter I would not enjoy it. While it may not be the final word in resolution/separation, for me the 560 is very strong in those areas and as such even more sparkle combined with the resolution would lead to quite a bit of music (being poorly mastered/highly compressed and loud) sounding very harsh. IMO of course.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I am going to look into the 16bit thread here as it sounds lively. For my part, at the moment I do not feel convinced at all that going above 16bits is necessary or even audible. I know until I am able to do some blind testing that I won't invest any money over at HD Tracks or elsewhere. Like others have said, a little thread diversion is okay, but hopefully we don't get to mired in this issue as it is quite a "hot button" issue round these parts.
 
@Sbranson, I understand what you mean about it seeming a little hypocritical that in the community you seemingly can discuss how amps, DACs and headphones differ, but other things are considered voodoo and witch craft. I myself have at various times felt that way, but I think that it is well documented how certain components make audible differences and in turn it is easy to detect some of these differences. The real problem for some of the other proposed change makers (cables, high resolution files) is that at this point there seems to be little direct evidence as to how and why these things go about influencing the perceived audio stream, and then to compound this, these proposed changes are very difficult to detect for many.
 
While I will admit that I lean more toward the side that much of the cable high-resolution files differences could be explained by placebo/expectation bias, I try to keep an open mind as I am not at all experienced enough, or qualified to say I know they make no difference for a fact. I do feel badly for those who enjoy their cable experimentation as I sometimes feel they get a rough ride around here, and perhaps unfairly so. Anyway, in the end, the enjoyment this hobby provides is a very personal experience and if you find a particular approach works for you, that is really what it is all about isn't it?

 

[davidsh]

Not at all happy with how Mr. Fang tuned the treble on the HE-560.  Hoped for a brighter, more beautiful flare to it.

I get ya, they are slightly romantic and relaxed overall. Compare them with 5le with some aggressive metal. The 5le sings in comparison.