[Ultrainferno]

Amazon doesn't count

 

[Fegefeuer]

Now compare the T1 price from amazon.de and amazon.fr.
 
Delivery is from Germany in both cases. Germans have it worst. 

 

[davidsh]

I dreamt my (apparently) new Hifiman HE-560 pads were destroyed somehow, the stitching was ripped and you could see the white foam underneath. So sad

 

[elmoe]

  Now compare the T1 price from amazon.de and amazon.fr.
 
Delivery is from Germany in both cases. Germans have it worst. 

Yeah its ridiculous.

 

[LunarBear]

It's hardly the thread to talk about that but elmoe I think you're forgetting that in the US displayed prices are without taxes (because taxes vary from state to state, if I'm not mistaken). While in EU most of the displayed prices include taxes (19.6% in France for most of the tech products).
 
You didn't take this into consideration in your examples, you're comparing prices including taxes (Amazon.fr) with prices not including taxes (Amazon.com).
 
With 20% taxes, we'd have:
 
- Beyerdynamic T1 on Amazon.fr: 700 EUR / 971 USD
- Beyerdynamic T1 on Amazon.com: 786 EUR / 1,090 USD
 
- AKG K712 Pro on Amazon.fr: 398 EUR / 552 USD
- AKG K712 Pro on Amazon.com: 327 EUR / 455 USD
 
- Sennheiser HD 650 on Amazon.fr: 340 EUR / 471 USD
- Sennheiser HD 650 on Amazon.com: 432 EUR / 600 USD
 
With taxes: T1 are now more expensive on Amazon US, the HD 650 are much more expensive in the US, and the AKG are still cheaper there. Odd pricing for the AKG, but even if they're assembled in Austria keep in mind that AKG is now owned by Harman Kardon, a US company.
 
No idea what are the average taxes on this type of products in the US though, it might not be 20%, but it doesn't change anything about the fact that I'm inclined to agree with Ultrainferno when he says that "It is hardly the dealer fault". Most of the time the inflated prices are not their doing, they only reflects the taxes and the import cost (for imported products, obviously).
 
Some resellers obviously overprice their stuff, but it's not like there's a big EU conspiracy: if it really was that EU dealers are just greedier then some of them would profit of the situation and offer much lower prices to gain market share, which is not the case (because they would simply be losing money).
 
That's why I'm generally okay with the 1 EUR = 1 USD conversion, but I'm NOT okay when it's more than that, like it is for Audeze products (eg the Rosewood LCD-2 priced at 1,290 EUR vs the 1,145 USD MSRP in the US).
 
When we don't get import taxes (which are ~30% like you said, 19.6% for VAT and ~10% for custom fees), then yes it's extremely advantageous for us to order from the US, because we're basically getting a product free of taxes! Unfortunately I did get import taxes on almost all of the last items I bought abroad, except my HE-400. A low declared value (or declaring it as a "gift") does not automatically prevent from getting hit by import taxes: if the custom offices notice that the declared value is not consistent with the product they will reajust it and they can even make you pay a fine.
 
To get back to the thread: eagerly waiting for some new impressions on the HE-560

 

[cute]

  Now compare the T1 price from amazon.de and amazon.fr.
 
Delivery is from Germany in both cases. Germans have it worst. 

 
Germans always have their wurst!

 

[elmoe]

You're right its not the place so this is my last post on the topic: look at sales tax in the USA. It rarely goes above 10%, in fact the average is mostly around 6-7%. Europe is mostly around 20%. So even considering that US prices do not include sales tax, we're still FAR from the same prices. Calculate the prices with USA's real sales tax (and it's NEVER 20%) and the estimate is very different, not to mention that shipping is generally less expensive in the US as well. I agree about import tax making a big difference, but why doesn't it make a difference both ways and only European are subject to much higher prices?
 
As you can see, Sennheiser are pretty much the only exception.

 

[LunarBear]

  You're right its not the place so this is my last post on the topic: look at sales tax in the USA. It rarely goes above 10%, in fact the average is mostly around 6-7%. Europe is mostly around 20%. So even considering that US prices do not include sales tax, we're still FAR from the same prices. Calculate the prices with USA's real sales tax (and it's NEVER 20%) and the estimate is very different, not to mention that shipping is generally less expensive in the US as well.

 
Yes, but like I said it doesn't change anything to my rationale: it has nothing to do with resellers (which was your initial point). They can't circumvent the taxes!
 
I absolutely agree with you that taxes are way too high in the EU, but we really can't do much about that.
 
Like I said the ideal situation for EU customers is to order in the US and not get hit by import taxes, but it's pure gambling, and more often than not you will have to pay them.

 

[Koolpep]

   
Germans always have their wurst!

 
We love our Wurst for sure. Hope you had a nice Maifest.
 
Am living in Dubai for the last decade. I am german. Here is what I do:
 
Order a Made in Germany product in the US (so it's already shipped from Germany to the US distributor/retailer) have it shipped to my freight forwarder (US) who ships it to me to Dubai. While that is not good for the environment (think of the transport all around the world), it's certainly good for my wallet, even with all the shipping involved, since it's still cheaper than either buying it in Germany or locally (in a tax free country)...
 
In short: the US is a shopping paradise....
 
Cheers,
K
 
P.S.: there are two local exceptions thankfully, Sennheiser and PSB have distributors who are selling the products slightly cheaper than in Germany. (while Germany has 19% VAT included and the UAE has 0%, so if you take out the tax it's still more expensive here).

 

[elmoe]

   
Yes, but like I said it doesn't change anything to my rationale: it has nothing to do with resellers. They can't circumvent the taxes!
 
I absolutely agree with you that taxes are way too high in the EU, but we really can't do much about that.
 
Like I said the ideal situation for EU customers is to order in the US and not get hit by import taxes, but it's pure gambling, and more often than not you will have to pay them.

 
But they should offer prices that can beat the customer importing the product directly instead of going through them. In many many cases, they don't. Which has to be because of inflated prices on their end, no matter how you look at it. When I import an Audio-gd product, I'm still paying 20% VAT on it at customs, + customs tax which is usually around 10%, and its still less expensive than buying the product from a local dealer.

 

[LunarBear]

   
But they should offer prices that can beat the customer importing the product directly instead of going through them. In many many cases, they don't. Which has to be because of inflated prices on their end, no matter how you look at it. When I import an Audio-gd product, I'm still paying 20% VAT on it at customs, + customs tax which is usually around 10%, and its still less expensive than buying the product from a local dealer.

 
I find that most of the time if you have to pay the 30% import taxes ordering from the US is about the same price than buying it directly in the EU.
 
Look at your examples: with +30% they would all be more expensive than if you'd buy them on Amazon.fr (except the AKG, which once again is really odd imo).
 
In the cases where it is much cheaper to get them in the US even with the 30% import taxes, then yes I do agree with you: the resellers are blatantly screwing you. This is the case with Audeze, and that's why I was complaining about it. I think it's because there are really few Audeze resellers in France, and they just don't have any competition, so they just openly screw us.
 
I think it's okay if local dealers' prices are a tiny bit higher (something like 5%? I don't know) than what we would pay if we'd import it ourselves: it's for convenience. I'd much prefer paying 5% more for something on Amazon.fr and knowing I'd have fast shipping, a local warranty, and the possiblity to return the item without any issue or restocking fees. If it's more thant 5% and one of those things is lacking (fast shipping / warranty / easy refund) then yes I do agree with you, it's not okay.
 
Seems that we globally agree, I guess it depends on the type of products you wish to import and how you value convenience.
 
Really sorry for the digression (but it's such an interesting topic for us europeans! ), I'll stop there.

 

[swspiers]

I'm lost.  I was looking for the Hifiman 560 impressions thread....

 

[jaywillin]

  I'm lost.  I was looking for the Hifiman 560 impressions thread....

i was kinda thinking the same thing

 

[Ultrainferno]

i was kinda thinking the same thing

Here you go

 

[conquerator2]

Impressions, impressions!