[jnorris]

I have the 2016 400i and the Sundara, and have a completely opposite opinion of them. To me, the Sundara is a more transparent headphone and superior in every way to the 400i. To each their own, I guess.

 

[coletrain104]

Today I heard the 2016 version 400i in comparison to Sundara, k702 and Sennheiser Game One. It blew away k702 and defeated both Sundara and Game One in my opinion (EQd all of them though). There are however 2 versions I'm interested in, the 2016 and 2014. Does anyone know the differences between them (apart from one using SMC jack and the 2016 normal jacks)? Is the 2016 worse/better in sound/comfort and QC?

outside of the jacks, there was a change, documented with pics somewhere on this thread. SMC version has a metal backplate over the magnets (grill-side of headphone with grill removed) to protect the driver from external objects, but then next revision does not have the backplate. There were a few members mentioning that they preferred the SMC (2014) version.

My personal experience comparing my SMC version vs HE-4XX (same driver as 400i 3.5mm) was that of these two pairs, I felt the SMC had a fuller low end, with a bit longer decay. HE-4XX sounded cleaner, more spacious, but not as forgiving in the treble. However take that with a huge grain of salt, the clamp mechanisms are not the same and may not have equivalent seal. To get equivalent clamp on 4XX would be tough. I swapped one pair of pads a few times for back and forth, then last change I put the new pads with the 4XX back on for final comparison. They are quite similar but I think I prefer the bit more warmth vs. a bit cleaner with more airiness and open feeling. However this change may have just been the clamp mechanism, which is much more snug on either 400i. Wish I'd had the 400i 3.5mm instead of the 4XX, but I've never tried one.

Also these differences were really small, almost the same headphone just a little timbre shift to my ears.

 

[AT Khan]

outside of the jacks, there was a change, documented with pics somewhere on this thread. SMC version has a metal backplate over the magnets (grill-side of headphone with grill removed) to protect the driver from external objects, but then next revision does not have the backplate. There were a few members mentioning that they preferred the SMC (2014) version.

My personal experience comparing my SMC version vs HE-4XX (same driver as 400i 3.5mm) was that of these two pairs, I felt the SMC had a fuller low end, with a bit longer decay. HE-4XX sounded cleaner, more spacious, but not as forgiving in the treble. However take that with a huge grain of salt, the clamp mechanisms are not the same and may not have equivalent seal. To get equivalent clamp on 4XX would be tough. I swapped one pair of pads a few times for back and forth, then last change I put the new pads with the 4XX back on for final comparison. They are quite similar but I think I prefer the bit more warmth vs. a bit cleaner with more airiness and open feeling. However this change may have just been the clamp mechanism, which is much more snug on either 400i. Wish I'd had the 400i 3.5mm instead of the 4XX, but I've never tried one.

Also these differences were really small, almost the same headphone just a little timbre shift to my ears.

I have the 2016 he400i and the he4xx.

I kinda prefer the 4xx - but the difference is in the bass, where the 4xx has a bit more - it seems warmer to me.

You're right about the SMC 400i - I tried that once and compared it to my 2016. It has the backplate on the magnets.
The 2016 also is single sided magnet array - not sure if the SMC is also.

I somehow preferred the 2016 as it seemed to be more efficient. I didn't feel if the SMC had better bass than the 2016, but maybe it scales a bit better - seems more power hoggy than even the 2016, which in turn is more power hoggy than the 4XX.

The 400i does seem to have more air and stage in comparison to the 4XX. I guess they both have their own flavors.

I didn't have a real fantastic amp - it's still a mystery if the SMC can really scale better, akin to the He6 or something, and maybe it then sounds better than both. But I have no complaints from either of my cans.

I do find the presence of a magnet back plate as a bit of an intrusion.

The Edition XS has no backplate, neither do any of these other, larger Hifimans, yet they sound steller.

Then there's the He6, which remains a mystery to me. Some absolutely love it and say there's nothing beyond it, while others have trashed it. I've never tried it.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

The HE6SE V2 is the 400i on steroids. It's fuller, faster, more articulate in every way. But to me they're both great cans. As long as I don't listen to them back to back I also love the 400i 2020s.

 

[Vedemin]

HE400i 2016 vs Sundara with a broken leather strap for similar price

Hi, I got the option between these two. I compared them yesterday and liked the 400i more but that was a review 400i with hundreds if not thousands of hours vs a Sundara that was just taken out of the box for me specifically, zero burn in.
What concerns me are these things:
• Comfort. Is the 400i headband more comfortable? Can the newer (Sundara) headband have the clamp force reduced by bending it a little? Can the old one?
• QC. I have heard the 400i 2016 has issues with headband plastic breaking and the drivers stop working supposedly in some units. Does Sundara fix that problem mostly? I know its not perfect but is it a noticeable improvement?
• Sound Quality. I only had a fresh Sundara and 400i was a bit better especially on bass (parametric EQ applied on both) but I’m wondering if that’s not just Sundara BEING fresh. Is the Sundara worth it for that 10$ + head strap cost?

I don’t want to go for 400 series 2020 version because of the head strap being garbage IMO.

Especially my question is in regards to the bass, I have noticed 400i review unit to have SIGNIFICANTLY better bass than Sundara - much much more textured and resolving. Is it something anyone else can confirm? Is it just the issue of Sundaras being not burnt in at all since they were straight from the box?

 

[AT Khan]

HE400i 2016 vs Sundara with a broken leather strap for similar price

Hi, I got the option between these two. I compared them yesterday and liked the 400i more but that was a review 400i with hundreds if not thousands of hours vs a Sundara that was just taken out of the box for me specifically, zero burn in.
What concerns me are these things:
• Comfort. Is the 400i headband more comfortable? Can the newer (Sundara) headband have the clamp force reduced by bending it a little? Can the old one?
• QC. I have heard the 400i 2016 has issues with headband plastic breaking and the drivers stop working supposedly in some units. Does Sundara fix that problem mostly? I know its not perfect but is it a noticeable improvement?
• Sound Quality. I only had a fresh Sundara and 400i was a bit better especially on bass (parametric EQ applied on both) but I’m wondering if that’s not just Sundara BEING fresh. Is the Sundara worth it for that 10$ + head strap cost?

I don’t want to go for 400 series 2020 version because of the head strap being garbage IMO.

Especially my question is in regards to the bass, I have noticed 400i review unit to have SIGNIFICANTLY better bass than Sundara - much much more textured and resolving. Is it something anyone else can confirm? Is it just the issue of Sundaras being not burnt in at all since they were straight from the box?

I have heard about this. I think at least when it come to bass, the He400i, He4XX and maybe even the He400se [stealth] will best the Sundara.
What Sundara has going for it (from what I've heard) is better resolution with the rest of the frequency, better sound staging, and better highs as well. I have not tried the Sundara personally, but I'm pitching in from the countless reviews/videos I've seen about the Sundara. I've never heard the Sundaras to have great bass - so there, if this information helps you.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I don’t want to go for 400 series 2020 version because of the head strap being garbage IMO.

I agree with this but it's true of many headphones including HE6SE V2, Fostex, etc. Fortunately, Hifiman still sells the old style headband. Out of stock last time I checked but it comes and goes and I believe it even ships from the Polish warehouse. So if the headstrap is the only thing bothering you, get the 2020s and swap in the old style suspension strap.

 

[Vedemin]

What's the better version, 3.5mm or 2.5mm Jacks inside the driver housing in the 2016 revision 400i?

By that I mean the whole package, which one is better? IIRC the Jack's were alongside a revision of other stuff as well. Which one has the better headband materials?

 

[Mr Trev]

My 400i has the older 2.5mm jacks. I've never had any connection issues. I suppose 3.5mm would be more robust, but if you aren't abusing your phones, I can't really see a reason to pick one over the other

 

[loganzhengx]

Today I heard the 2016 version 400i in comparison to Sundara, k702 and Sennheiser Game One. It blew away k702 and defeated both Sundara and Game One in my opinion (EQd all of them though). There are however 2 versions I'm interested in, the 2016 and 2014. Does anyone know the differences between them (apart from one using SMC jack and the 2016 normal jacks)? Is the 2016 worse/better in sound/comfort and QC?

I'm eqing to susvara. d8000 pro z7m2. and drive it with aiyima a07 which is a speaker amp. sound it's amazing after ab and serious listening i would say it imitates 95% out of target. imaging and separation may not sufficient for someone. man but the tone so heavenly good it beats mdr z1r hd800/s for me

 

[HappyPessimist]

Does anyone know why the 400i 2020 are so hard to find now? If I remember correctly they stopped selling them in the US for a while and they've been hard to find since.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Does anyone know why the 400i 2020 are so hard to find now? If I remember correctly they stopped selling them in the US for a while and they've been hard to find since.

You could email the support email at store.hifiman.com. They're in New Jersey <cough> China! <cough> but they get back to you.

 

[HappyPessimist]

You could email the support email at store.hifiman.com. They're in New Jersey <cough> China! <cough> but they get back to you.

Yeah...Not sure I want to know that badly. I've just been surprised- these had a good amount of hype and then they stopped selling them. I kind of assumed it was because they released the 400se, which were cheaper, not long after.

 

[Mr Trev]

Yeah...Not sure I want to know that badly. I've just been surprised- these had a good amount of hype and then they stopped selling them. I kind of assumed it was because they released the 400se, which were cheaper, not long after.

I'd chalk it up to supply chain issues. I was looking to get a custom build (ie. basic as possible) Lenovo Legion. It was ~4mo. until shipped. Took me ages to just get a replacement pair of earpads for my HD58x (out of stock everywhere)

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Yeah...Not sure I want to know that badly. I've just been surprised- these had a good amount of hype and then they stopped selling them. I kind of assumed it was because they released the 400se, which were cheaper, not long after.

Ah ok. I thought you were looking for one. I think they're quite fantastic. I bagged a new pair for 149 euros and to me they sound like they're worth paying 750-1000 for.

I didn't try the 400se since from what I read here the i would be more to my liking.