[drwlf]

Other headphones you may want to audition if you want tight controlled bass that goes low are: HD-700, HE-560 and EL8 open, all of these have better bass and sound stage than the HE-400i or TH-600 but need to be driven properly, the HE-400i is much less picky with amps.  

 
As I'm on an upgrade path myself, any comments on the LCD-2/X/3, or the HE-X bass, especially vs. HE-560/HE-400i?
I don't think the HE-560 is the obvious choice of upgrading to, whilst a better headphone technically - perhaps another brand would be a refreshing new flavor?
 
HE-K didn't impress me on any electronic stuff due the overall laid-back presentation, even though I guess it has the reference bass otherwise.
 
Had a try of the Elear/Utopia, but in a noisy expo environment, so I'm withholding my thoughts on those still, though, rather impressive already. Booked a better demo for December, after I'm back home again, and continuing to lurk the impressions/reviews.
 
Otherwise, should I get a hold of a TH-900, as it's lauded in the electronic genre, but I wonder if I can appreciate the bass from dynamic drivers.
And what about Vali then, if I find Elear pleasing in the end?
Or perhaps go a bit more exotic route with HE-6, or as exotic as you can get, (due to my ease of having a day trip to Russia, St. Petersburg) for the Odin?
 
Decisions!

 

[coletrain104]

   
As I'm on an upgrade path myself, any comments on the LCD-2/X/3, or the HE-X bass, especially vs. HE-560/HE-400i?
I don't think the HE-560 is the obvious choice of upgrading to, whilst a better headphone technically - perhaps another brand would be a refreshing new flavor?
 
HE-K didn't impress me on any electronic stuff due the overall laid-back presentation, even though I guess it has the reference bass otherwise.
 
Had a try of the Elear/Utopia, but in a noisy expo environment, so I'm withholding my thoughts on those still, though, rather impressive already. Booked a better demo for December, after I'm back home again, and continuing to lurk the impressions/reviews.
 
Otherwise, should I get a hold of a TH-900, as it's lauded in the electronic genre, but I wonder if I can appreciate the bass from dynamic drivers.
And what about Vali then, if I find Elear pleasing in the end?
Or perhaps go a bit more exotic route with HE-6, or as exotic as you can get, (due to my ease of having a day trip to Russia, St. Petersburg) for the Odin?
 
Decisions!

The bass on the TH-900 cuts through every mix. I heard bass where I didn't know it existed. However it is incredibly clean and pretty impactful, but just too much quantity for me. If you're an electronic afficionado it may be great, but if 15% of your music is not electronic, probably 15% of your music will let the bass line shine through the mix. Also the treble is pretty hot. The HE-6 is very very nice, and has a great sense of impact, but is super uncomfortable on the head, though you'd probably want to look into comfort mods (head-strap) and such, as well as having big amping requirements. It's the favorite I've heard of those you mentioned, along with the LCD X and LCD2, never heard the 3 or the Focals. I think the LCD series has fantastic bass, especially the X. I feel like the HE-560's bass was about the same as the 400i in terms of impact ( a little soft ) which is what I've heard about the new high end HiFiMans, which I haven't heard either. If you want to switch from 400i I don't think the 560 is a logical upgrade, as they are similar in a lot of ways. My advice is to get to local meets and audio shows and try as much as you can.

 

[DavidA]

   
As I'm on an upgrade path myself, any comments on the LCD-2/X/3, or the HE-X bass, especially vs. HE-560/HE-400i?
I don't think the HE-560 is the obvious choice of upgrading to, whilst a better headphone technically - perhaps another brand would be a refreshing new flavor?
 
HE-K didn't impress me on any electronic stuff due the overall laid-back presentation, even though I guess it has the reference bass otherwise.
 
Had a try of the Elear/Utopia, but in a noisy expo environment, so I'm withholding my thoughts on those still, though, rather impressive already. Booked a better demo for December, after I'm back home again, and continuing to lurk the impressions/reviews.
 
Otherwise, should I get a hold of a TH-900, as it's lauded in the electronic genre, but I wonder if I can appreciate the bass from dynamic drivers.
And what about Vali then, if I find Elear pleasing in the end?
Or perhaps go a bit more exotic route with HE-6, or as exotic as you can get, (due to my ease of having a day trip to Russia, St. Petersburg) for the Odin?
 
Decisions!

Lots of choices there and I'm a little envious that you got to hear the Elear/Utopia even if it was in a noisy enviro.  The HE-560 is just an amp picky headphone to me, like the HD-800 it will have a few amps that make it sound so different from the HE-400i and you wonder why some say they sound similar.  When I got to hear the HE-560 on my friends Isabellina DAC and Liquid Glass setup it would be my choice if I could only have one headphone, amp and DAC.
 
I'm also thinking about a TH-900, tried one a year ago and while its a improvement from my TH-600 it needs the up stream gear to match, which I'm working on.
 
The LCD-X and HE-X would be at the top of my list if I need an easy to drive planar, HE-X wins the comfort battle while the LCD-X was the better sounding to me, the HE-X was just to polite, no energy to make the music engaging to me while the LCD-X is just to close to the LCD-2 at double the price and for me the weight is just too much.

 

[drwlf]

  The bass on the TH-900 cuts through every mix. I heard bass where I didn't know it existed. However it is incredibly clean and pretty impactful, but just too much quantity for me. If you're an electronic afficionado it may be great, but if 15% of your music is not electronic, probably 15% of your music will let the bass line shine through the mix. Also the treble is pretty hot. The HE-6 is very very nice, and has a great sense of impact, but is super uncomfortable on the head, though you'd probably want to look into comfort mods (head-strap) and such, as well as having big amping requirements. It's the favorite I've heard of those you mentioned, along with the LCD X and LCD2, never heard the 3 or the Focals. I think the LCD series has fantastic bass, especially the X. I feel like the HE-560's bass was about the same as the 400i in terms of impact ( a little soft ) which is what I've heard about the new high end HiFiMans, which I haven't heard either. If you want to switch from 400i I don't think the 560 is a logical upgrade, as they are similar in a lot of ways. My advice is to get to local meets and audio shows and try as much as you can.

 
Thanks for the impressions/train of thought, others chimin' in is appreciated as well.
 
I guess I should've mentioned that I'm planning to buy different headphones for different genres - I don't think it's possible that one single allrounder can achieve the eargasms in various genres. And now I'm just wondering on the bass/electronic music aspects
 
I've considered the Lawton mod essential for the probable TH-900 purchase, along with detachable cables, if I grab the MK1. I do think that I'm pretty sensitive to treble, but with TH-900, the mod, and even EQing down a bit wouldn't bother me. However, if the supposed wide soundstage takes a hit along the way, then it would. Sounds like a fun can by description, I say. But rather unobtainable to test out in a store in Finland prior to purchase, so it'd be a blind buy.
 
I'm also familiar w HE-6 modding (fiddling/planning to fiddle around with some of them, applied to the HE-400i), and the amping requirements. It's a bit of hassle, but if I have the time - the reason why I consider it a bit exotic can.
 
On the LCD-line, I'm wondering, what the supposed neutralness of the LCD-X brings to music, vs. to smoother and warmer presentation of 2/3, and could you say that the LCD-X can be just described as a neutralish Audeze can, but not otherwise generally. How does it translate to the genres I listen to? Would it actually be a rather direct upgrade to the HE-400i in many ways?
 
And the difficulty of local meets and audio shows, as they're rather nonexistant, living in a city of 600k in a country with a population of 6m. There's some - but the only place to audition are the few brick & mortar stores, which just won't carry all of the brands..

 

[notfitforpublic]

  Forgot to ask, are you changing the output resistance of the Polaris when you switch between your T1, HD-600 and TH-X00?  This will have a effect on how the bass is presented and also affect the highs.

 
Yup, lowest setting for the X00 and medium for the 600 and T1. I've been meaning to try the highest for the T1 but at 120ohms thats past the 1/8 rule. Very rarely use the polaris for the T1 and HD600 though, Valhalla 2 rig is where they usually live (high gain for T1, Low for HD600 depending on recording). 

 

[rez11]

anyone had a chance to compare Gustard H10 and Polaris amps for 400i ?

 

[DavidA]

   
Yup, lowest setting for the X00 and medium for the 600 and T1. I've been meaning to try the highest for the T1 but at 120ohms thats past the 1/8 rule. Very rarely use the polaris for the T1 and HD600 though, Valhalla 2 rig is where they usually live (high gain for T1, Low for HD600 depending on recording). 

Looks like you got it down with the Valhalla2 for the T1 and HD600, I've yet to try a Polaris but I do have the Ember and for the TH-600 its not bad but I like it better with the UD-301 or even the Asgard2, tubes add just a touch too much warmth.

 

[520RanchBro]

   
As I'm on an upgrade path myself, any comments on the LCD-2/X/3, or the HE-X bass, especially vs. HE-560/HE-400i?
I don't think the HE-560 is the obvious choice of upgrading to, whilst a better headphone technically - perhaps another brand would be a refreshing new flavor?
 

Owning both the 400i and 560, they won't be drastically different but the 560 was a noticeable improvement for me. The 400i has sat in its box as a backup for months now, I should probably sell it. I love the 400i too, awesome mids for guitar-centric music, but the 560 just has a more even response, wider soundstage and the detail and imaging of it is just so enjoyable.
 
If you're looking for something a bit warmer than the 400i, 560 is definitely not the best choice in that regard. I've never found it harsh but it certainly isn't warm, which I prefer.

 

[peter123]

Fwiw I find the Little Dot I+ to be fantastic with the 400i.....

 

[notfitforpublic]

  Looks like you got it down with the Valhalla2 for the T1 and HD600, I've yet to try a Polaris but I do have the Ember and for the TH-600 its not bad but I like it better with the UD-301 or even the Asgard2, tubes add just a touch too much warmth.

Found the same with the X00 hence why I picked up the Polaris. Then I thought "now that I have a SS amp, I should really try PM's" and began this whole thing. I think its just gonna have to boil down to grabbing a set and finding out for myself.
 
Appreciate al the help folks!
 
Edit:
Does any body if the Black Friday sale that went last year on theses is a "thing"? or just last year?

 

[L5hunter]

I just love the aesthetic of these headphones. It almost reminds me of the piano black of the OG iPhone. I'm hoping to get these as my first nice headphones. Would they be properly amped through the phones jack of a high end surround receiver?

 

[Jayzz]

 
@Jayzz, I don't think changing amps will improve the sound stage of the HE-400i much, it at all, the Asgard2 does provide a fairly decent sound stage IMO.  If the sound stage is really important to you then I think it would be better to find headphones that have the sound stage that you are looking for to start, might also be cheaper.

I took that route and bought a pair of Alpha Dogs in hopes to upgrade to Alpha Primes. Unfortunately they were too heavy for me and I couldn't stand their weight. Every time I put them on, I got a strain in my neck that I had to put them back in the market immediately. I liked their sound signature though & they definitely had a wider sound stage than HE400i.
 
If I had to stick to their line for that sound signature & stage, I might have to step up to the Ethers as they weigh less, but that's beyond my budget. If you have a few recommendations, please feel free to suggest. 
 
This is my upgrade path so far.
Sennheiser HD598 -> Philips Fidelio X2 -> Hifiman HE400i.
 
I consider the sound stage of HE400i to be narrow because of the previous headphones HD598 & the X2 which had very wide sound stage. But I like to bass on the planars than the other two, to the level that I began to think X2 has bloated bass.

 

[coletrain104]

 
Found the same with the X00 hence why I picked up the Polaris. Then I thought "now that I have a SS amp, I should really try PM's" and began this whole thing. I think its just gonna have to boil down to grabbing a set and finding out for myself.
 
Appreciate al the help folks!
 
Edit:
Does any body if the Black Friday sale that went last year on theses is a "thing"? or just last year?

HifiMan has a tendency to repeat black friday deals, or market sales as a black friday deal but then make it the standard sale price. However with the newer edition s and DAPs, its kind of a toss up. If you want to gamble on it...

 

[Gimpinchair]

Bump

Hey guys,

I asked what follows in the HA-2 discussion, but I thought post it here too.

I'm looking for a closed back HP to pair with my HA-2 for outdoor listening. I currently have the Sony MDR-1A, but the bass quantity is a bit much for me. As a reference, I use the HE-400i with the Schiit BifrostMB/Lyr2 for desktop listening. I find this combination to be very good. Keeping in mind that this setup is my first foray into audiophile HPs.

Currently I'm considering the Oppo PM3 & the Fostex TH610. This is the price range I'd like to stay close to, anyway. My music taste is rock (60's &70's blues & progressive based) and jazz of the same era (fusion & acid); with a bit of pop and R&B sprinkled about.

Any thoughts?

 

[drwlf]

  Lots of choices there and I'm a little envious that you got to hear the Elear/Utopia even if it was in a noisy enviro.  The HE-560 is just an amp picky headphone to me, like the HD-800 it will have a few amps that make it sound so different from the HE-400i and you wonder why some say they sound similar.  When I got to hear the HE-560 on my friends Isabellina DAC and Liquid Glass setup it would be my choice if I could only have one headphone, amp and DAC.
 
I'm also thinking about a TH-900, tried one a year ago and while its a improvement from my TH-600 it needs the up stream gear to match, which I'm working on.
 
The LCD-X and HE-X would be at the top of my list if I need an easy to drive planar, HE-X wins the comfort battle while the LCD-X was the better sounding to me, the HE-X was just to polite, no energy to make the music engaging to me while the LCD-X is just to close to the LCD-2 at double the price and for me the weight is just too much.

 
Yeah, I guess I could mention that the dynamic nature of the Focals really stood out, even in a noisy environment - it really made the music feel alive and vibrant. Soon afterwards, in a less noisier environment, the HE-1000 sounded pretty much plain boring.
 
And yeah, I've read that the HE-560 scales up quite nicely, which is not the case with HE-400i. I guess I'm pretty much in the mid-fi endgame, or at least HE-400i endgame with the m9XX pairing.
How much have you modded your HE-560 though, besides the grill mod? I've had the impression that the modded HE-560 goes pretty neck and neck with stock HE-6, but the modded HE-6 takes the cake, by a reasonable margin. Basically, if I'd go via that route - why not just grab the HE-6?
 
I guess I'm also wondering about the TH-900 due to their closed nature, (besides their lauded synergy with electronic music) - I need some office cans as well. Perhaps a wee bit too pricey with the audio chain, and I'd be way too eager to use them at home as well. I guess there's other options, the beforementioned TH-X00, or perhaps the AH-D7000, which intrigues me.
 
The thing is, I haven't heard the Audeze sound due to the availability issues here - I already thought that the HE-X was quite musical and dynamic, quite a TOTL candidate for me already - even though I haven't auditioned it extensively. Your comments seriously make me wonder about the LCD-X! LCD-2 just sounds a bit like a beefed up HD650 to me by the descriptions in the impressions thread, lovely with rather small margin of genres, but then again, what kind of eargasms could it produce for me?
 
 

  Owning both the 400i and 560, they won't be drastically different but the 560 was a noticeable improvement for me. The 400i has sat in its box as a backup for months now, I should probably sell it. I love the 400i too, awesome mids for guitar-centric music, but the 560 just has a more even response, wider soundstage and the detail and imaging of it is just so enjoyable.
 
If you're looking for something a bit warmer than the 400i, 560 is definitely not the best choice in that regard. I've never found it harsh but it certainly isn't warm, which I prefer.

 
Yeah, perhaps the refreshing new flavor via another brand might be the best solution - even though I can see the point in enjoying the HE-560 more than HE-400i, to the point of making the HE-400i obsolete. But worth double the price of HE-400i, that's my biggest concern.
 
I can't really go as far as to tell that I need warmer cans per se (though the sibilance issues I've had with some AKGs/Beyerdynamics tell me something), I guess I just need to find genre-specific cans for my tastes
For example, I don't think the HE-400i does well with all "guitar" music, even with the generally praised mids.
I have issues mostly related to various genres, though some production goodness/badness exceptions prove the rule. Haven't exactly researched and pinpointed it, yet at least, I don't think it's a frequency response thing, but something with the transients messing with particular guitar harmonics. Most grunge, classic rock, older heavy metal, or even black metal just sound off, perhaps the decay is just too quick for me to get a "fluid" rockin' n' bangin' feeling whilst listening to those genres.
The HD650 with the lush and more liquid/round mids is a whole 'nother story. But then again, throw technical death metal, djent, prog - from 70s symphonic or italian to newer crossover prog, the HE-400i is sublime.