[SauceBoss]

I was listening to live music pretty often, on Machine Head i was 3 times, so i know what sound i want to get, thats my reference Of course i can live without lower frequency smashing my chest, but i expect that cans for that money should handle that kind of music good. I appriciate them for clarity and resolution, sounds wasn't interfering with other ones, thats thing, that dynamic headphones weren't able to do.
So, to the point: I'm asking you, if those cans can play darker and more "meaty" than with those pieces from Schiit, if not, what cans do you suggest? I'm openminded and will listen to them too

 

[TMRaven]

I absolutely hate the he-400 everything about that headphone was fatiguing. Too fast for me, too much body in the bass and highs, peaky upper mid that shouted in my ears which I mainly managed to fix with some modification of my own. Is the he400i as fast as the 400?Or slower like the 500?

 
There was nothing shouty about the upper midrange of the original 400.  If the 400's upper midrange sounds shouty, then nearly every other headphone on the market, including the 400i, will be even more shouty sounding to you.  The 400i has less bass body and less of an upper treble spike than the original 400 though, so those will be fixes to you.
 
I don't know what you mean by fast and slow, but the 400i is every bit as detailed sounding as the 400, but with a smaller soundstage.

 

[AnalogSavior]

I got a chance to listen to these a few months ago at Capitol Audiofest, and I really liked them.  Reminded me of the HD600.
 
Probably my favorite Hifiman headphone (560 is nice as well, but a bit bright for casual listening).

 

[ethan7000]

Anyone compared. The dt880 600ohm version to the 400i? My gaming headphones broke and I've got a chance to get the beyers for around $200. .I love a lot of detail and not false detail due to treble spikes but rather a nice refined driver able to pick details up in the treble region too. I'd rather not have a superfast driver with huge dynamics but love good out of head soundstage. I don't mind a little coloration of texture. Should I just get the 880s for gaming and save for the 400i or just save now for the the 400i or hd600. I have an asgard

I had the DT880 for gaming. I sold it for the X1, which I would recommend over the Beyers for that purpose. The 400i has a smaller soundstage comparatively which makes finding enemies more difficult. It would be my last choice of the three for gaming, but first of the three for music.

 

[Billheiser]

  I was listening to live music pretty often, on Machine Head i was 3 times, so i know what sound i want to get, thats my reference Of course i can live without lower frequency smashing my chest, but i expect that cans for that money should handle that kind of music good. I appriciate them for clarity and resolution, sounds wasn't interfering with other ones, thats thing, that dynamic headphones weren't able to do.
So, to the point: I'm asking you, if those cans can play darker and more "meaty" than with those pieces from Schiit, if not, what cans do you suggest? I'm openminded and will listen to them too

No headphones can give us that visceral smashing in the chest, and that's where they all fall short of live performances, and full range speakers.  I think that's why some people listen to their headphones too loud, or get bloated bass headphones, because they are trying (and failing) to get bass that rocks the whole body - but headphones can only do the ears.
Headphones of course can still have full and satisfying bass as long as we don't expect literal gut thumping.
 
with my stereo I have a way of using its subwoofer only, without the main speakers, while I listen to headphones.  That way, I can "cheat" and get body shaking while listening to headphones.  
 
The only "basshead" 'phone I have used is the Sony XB500.  See if you like that or its brothers or maybe some of the Dr. Dre Beats.  I very briefly heard the B&W P7 one time, and thought that it was very tilted towards the bass, also.

 

[mandrake50]

I absolutely hate the he-400 everything about that headphone was fatiguing. Too fast for me, too much body in the bass and highs, peaky upper mid that shouted in my ears which I mainly managed to fix with some modification of my own. Is the he400i as fast as the 400?Or slower like the 500?

The 400 is spectacular after getting them  to make you happy. If you have the  ear for it their presentation they are  without peer in an open phone for this little (low) piece of the spectrum. If  you like very low bass, and can accept some of the sibilance . You can't easily beat them!
 
It is all relative. I have both the 400 and 400i.  The 400i is just easier to listen to , for me!
Neither is being sold in the short term...
 
I can't give you much more that ..try them. If you set them up correctly (HE-400) notwithstanding  some  of what you hear/read, they are pretty darn impressive!
 
Still I have to buy into the 400i as better overall!

 

[DoctaCosmos]

TMraven it was probably the huge dynamic change from upper mids to treble as my ears were sensitive to. And as far as speed goes it's a fast headphone. I don't know how to explain it. A headphone does not need to be fast to be detailed. . The lcd3 for example.

 

[Lohb]

TMraven it was probably the huge dynamic change from upper mids to treble as my ears were sensitive to. And as far as speed goes it's a fast headphone. I don't know how to explain it. A headphone does not need to be fast to be detailed. . The lcd3 for example.

Attack and decay sounding too truncated maybe vs dynamics / speakers ?

 

[SauceBoss]

I'm afraid you misunderstood: I'm aware, that i won't get bass, that smacks me in the gut, I'm concerned with guitars, that don't sound as they should, they lack filling and sustain. I'm asking if this is those cans, or i can fix it with other dac/amp.

 

[Vartan]

Fast - Good reproduction of rapid transients which increase the sense of realism and "snap".

 

[money4me247]

  Fast - Good reproduction of rapid transients which increase the sense of realism and "snap".

not to get into a random sound science discussion, but I recently hear that differences in actual decay (aka resonance) or driver speed is inaudible as waterfall plots illustrating this have a timescale beneath the 20ms effect of temporal masking. hence, all perception of "speed" is really just due to differences in frequency response. this is kinda paraphrasing how I understood the conversation to go lol. probably someone more well-versed in the science of it can give a better explanation whether this is true or not.

 

[DoctaCosmos]

I took the time to evaluate what raven was saying as he knows his stuff so I figured I was missing something and It didn't take much to see what I was doing wrong. When I first heard the 400 the very first thing I thought about was how resolving, detailed and fast they were. It's a planar so naturally fast is the main benefit while excursion is their main downfall. Attack is where I was getting mixed up though. They have a super fast attack and to me it was fatiguing. So I suppose I should reiterate my question and ask if the attack on the 400i is as fast as the 400 or smoother like the 500

 

[DoctaCosmos]

@money so what you're saying is that 2 headphones with perfectly flat FR but different attack and decay. Will sound the same?

 

[Zoom25]

@money so what you're saying is that 2 headphones with perfectly flat FR but different attack and decay. Will sound the same?

Theoretically could, depending on the threshold of auditory masking at varying frequencies and time overlap.

 

[manbear]

  not to get into a random sound science discussion, but I recently hear that differences in actual decay (aka resonance) or driver speed is inaudible as waterfall plots illustrating this have a timescale beneath the 20ms effect of temporal masking. hence, all perception of "speed" is really just due to differences in frequency response. this is kinda paraphrasing how I understood the conversation to go lol. probably someone more well-versed in the science of it can give a better explanation whether this is true or not.

I'm not disputing your ultimate conclusion that CSD plots may be of little use in determining how a headphone sounds, but I think you're oversimplifying masking a bit. You're referring to pre-masking--basically, a quiet sound can be masked by a louder sound appearing up to 20 ms after it. The duration of the masking effect (and whether it even occurs) depends on the relative SPLs of the two sounds. It's not clear to me that there is enough dynamic range in your typical song to cause masking, and even then it would depend on the exact song and part of the song. 

It sounds like you're referring to the time resolution of the human ear. The human ear can detect clicks lasting under 5ms, so maybe we can hear the short duration resonances shown in CSD plots. I don't really know. It depends on frequency as well.  

I also think that a headphone's different harmonic distortion products could likely contribute to the perception of it being fast or slow, in addition to frequency response. 

Anyway, not saying you're right or wrong, just that it's more complicated.