[Billheiser]

I'm afraid you misunderstood: I'm aware, that i won't get bass, that smacks me in the gut, I'm concerned with guitars, that don't sound as they should, they lack filling and sustain. I'm asking if this is those cans, or i can fix it with other dac/amp.

If it wasn't satisfying for you thru that nice DAC and amp, then it's the phones.

 

[marhol]

  Hi guys!
I would like to get some info about those cans. I was listening to them at shop, connected to Schiits Lyr 2 and Bitfrost. The sound for me(listening flacs from ripped CDs, mainly metal and rock), was the best of what i compared(He400, Ultrasone PRO2900 and T90), BUT still it was bright(I Am Hell by Machine Head, which is very dark, full, even fat sound with very wide soundstage wasn't really that heavy), it lacked the punch and the "meat". Do you think that using other DAC and AMP can fix it? Salesman said, that those are pretty bright, so maybe it is the reason?

I understand dark sound signature as something with tonal balance that tilts downwards with increasing frequency. Simply more body in bass and (lower) midrange relative to treble. Bright is the opposite, sound doesn´t have (too) much body in bass / (lower) midrange and emphasizes upper midrange and treble. Warm signature means to me more or less emphasized bass, fullness in midrange (not thin or hollow sounding mids) and somewhat sweet (not harsh or shrill), but properly extended treble. See http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary  for more. So much for the science... 
 
When regarding overall sound signature from „extreme dark“ to „extreme bright“ two „measuring sticks“ are let´s say Audeze LCD 2 on the dark side and let´s say Grado 325i on the bright side.
As far as we compare „dark“ to „bright“ headphones,  is my assumption correct as follows : (?)  (Correct me please, if  I´m wrong)
 
From the darkest to the brightest headphone:
Audeze LCD2– Sennheiser HD 650 – Hifman HE 400 – Hifiman HE 500/ Hifiman HE 400i /Sennheiser HD 600 (?) - Hifiman HE 560 – Beyerdynamic DT 880 - Beyerdynamic DT 990 – Grado 325i
 
From what I learnt here and there, it seems to me that Hifiman 400i has slightly warm/neutral sound signature similar to Hifiman HE-500 or Sennheiser HD 600 in this regard, but probably cannot be called neither dark nor bright.
 
* To be honest, I have not personally heard any of above mentioned headphones besides of Beyerdynamic DT 990, which I own. Sinceraly though, I heard Hifiman 400i and HE 560, but... only in my DREAM (!), one happy night.  (probably an unlucky effect from too much reading head-fi threads  Yeah, no kidding ! But sorry, don´t expect another conquerator2- like comparison. Haha. It was a short listening and I´m just remembering both sounded VERY GOOD.

 

[money4me247]

@money so what you're saying is that 2 headphones with perfectly flat FR but different attack and decay. Will sound the same?

I am saying that I heard the argument that differences in decay & attack do not exist in headphones and the perceived differences in attack/decay are due to frequency response imbalances.

 

[money4me247]

 
I'm not disputing your ultimate conclusion that CSD plots may be of little use in determining how a headphone sounds, but I think you're oversimplifying masking a bit. You're referring to pre-masking--basically, a quiet sound can be masked by a louder sound appearing up to 20 ms after it. The duration of the masking effect (and whether it even occurs) depends on the relative SPLs of the two sounds. It's not clear to me that there is enough dynamic range in your typical song to cause masking, and even then it would depend on the exact song and part of the song. 

It sounds like you're referring to the time resolution of the human ear. The human ear can detect clicks lasting under 5ms, so maybe we can hear the short duration resonances shown in CSD plots. I don't really know. It depends on frequency as well.  

I also think that a headphone's different harmonic distortion products could likely contribute to the perception of it being fast or slow, in addition to frequency response. 

Anyway, not saying you're right or wrong, just that it's more complicated. 

lol it wasn't really my argument or conclusion. just parroting what i read elsewhere hahaha. someone more knowledge would have to weigh in on this.

 

[grizzlybeast]

after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

 

[beaver316]

  after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

 
That's a bit of an exaggeration. 

 

[money4me247]

  after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

hahah i dont think that is accurate

 

[bjamn]

I was lucky enough to receive one of these on the demo tour and, long story short, I bought it.
 
The longer story is that I have been on a headphone search for a while (aren’t we all?), and have tried many consumer/mid-fi models along the way, including: Shure SRH1540, NAD Viso, Philips X-1, AKG K545, V-Moda M100, Audio-Technica AD900x, etc. One thing I’ve learned about myself is that I simply must have bass -- but not at the expense of treble. The SRH1540’s were close to where I wanted to be, but ultimately I couldn’t get around the lack of treble I was perceiving with them. Later I came across the Beyer DT-770 32-ohm, and did end up keeping those. I love how well they play with my iStuff, even if they aren’t my holy grail.
 
I had had the HE-400i on my radar since I heard about them here on Head-Fi, and was excited when, even as a newbie, I was chosen to receive a demo pair. The very first thing that occurred to me when listening to these the first time, was that they did not have the bass I was looking for. But then something happened… I eventually threw on Rush Moving Pictures and sometime during YYZ I realized I was hearing Geddy’s bass line more distinctly and with more engagement than I have in recent memory. I was absolutely jamming and forgot all about headphones (yes, air-drumming was involved). But I still wasn’t sold, and if I had a bass knob I would have reached over and bumped it up.
 
Part of what I was hoping to find was a “nice” headphone that didn’t mind being being run from mobile devices. I would say the 400i’s are firmly in that category, and although you won’t find much headroom from your iPhone 5s, if a track calls for bass you will get bass. And it’s good bass - just not copious amounts of it. Then another new product arrived in my mailbox...
 
I had pre-ordered Digizoid’s ZO FS thinking I’d give another portable amp a shot (I had tried the Fiio E12 with the 1540’s), and from the moment I plugged into it, everything seemed to become right with the world. Suddenly I had an adjustable “fun factor” for the 400i’s! I was honestly expecting the Digizoid to be some over-the-top subwoofer-y thing, but instead it actually sounds and feels like a refined and serious piece of audio equipment (for the price). I’ve seen the word “synergy” used a lot on these forums, and with the 400i’s and the ZO FS, I think I’m finally seeing it in action.

It’s working for me, anyway.

 

[grizzlybeast]

 
after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

That's a bit of an exaggeration. 

 
after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

hahah i dont think that is accurate

Using the word "no" is an exaggeration... But reading impressions translate to a lot different than I was expecting.

 

[thug behram]

after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

A bit harsh, but agree. I also prefer the he-500.

 

[swspiers]

  after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass.

This is so wrong.  The bass can be epic, if the song or soundtrack has it.  I played the blu-ray of Godzilla, and the familiar "wub-woofer on my head" effect was in full force, along with soundstage.  And that film has some serious stuff going on. Progressive metal with aggressive bass is there as well.  They make my Alpha Dogs sound extremely lean in comparison, and the Dogs can jar my teeth on the right soundtrack.
 
What the 460i's absolutely do not do is eaggerate bass or soundstage where it isn't in the mix.  Not neutral  by any means, but certainly not lacking.

 

[reddog]

after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

I though I was the one who suffers from a cognitive hearing disorder. To say the HE-400i has no soundstage and no bass, is just wrong. I would say the sound stage, on a unmodified 400I is small, but it is there and works quite well. The bass on these cans is great. I listened to a lot of different musical genres with the HE-400i and not once did I ever not hear the bass. To say these cans have no base, is like saying Genghis Khan never knew of horses, or to say Jimi Hendrix did not know what a electric guitar was. I know we each perceive world around us differently but there is no truth to your observations that the the HE-400i has no soundstage and no bass.

 

[reddog]

This is so wrong.  The bass can be epic, if the song or soundtrack has it.  I played the blu-ray of Godzilla, and the familiar "wub-woofer on my head" effect was in full force, along with soundstage.  And that film has some serious stuff going on. Progressive metal with aggressive bass is there as well.  They make my Alpha Dogs sound extremely lean in comparison, and the Dogs can jar my teeth on the right soundtrack.

What the 460i's absolutely do not do is eaggerate bass or soundstage where it isn't in the mix.  Not neutral  by any means, but certainly not lacking.

A great description of the HE-400i, spot on. The HE-400I are a fun, natural sounding cans. I would like to hear the HE-560's, and see if they are as neutral as I hope they are.

 

[yogibeezwax]

Got the Crystalline balanced Cable(4 pin XLR plug) from head-direct.com with my 400i headphones. Love the headphones.....not really loving the cable....they made the right side longer than the left...not by much, but enough to piss me off....live in Sweden so I will not be asking for a replacement (they push that shipping cost on the buyer).

Just a heads up to potential buyers that their production of these cables atm is a bit flaky.... Otherwise, I'm happy with my 400i and Oppo HA-1 combo! Coming from a Dt990 premium & Yulong D100 MKII DAC, I'm more than delighted! Yes, not the same wide soundstage or bass......but man, the bass is accurate and the soundstage is more natural!

I mostly use these cans for movies and they are good.....don't know how much that is brain-in but they, imho, work great for movies because of their accuracy and natural reproduction.

 

[mandrake50]

after reading through this thread I can more easily see myself repurchasing the he500 before buying this 400i. Im kinda bummed it has no soundstage and no bass. 

That is more like a huge exaggeration. Plenty of bass when it is in the program and decent soundstage. Maybe it does not reach the absolute pinnacle in either when compared to some specific other headphone.... but the entire package does a fine job for my purposes.

I have read every post in the thread, some multiple times. I do not recall anyone saying that the 400i had no bass and no soundstage.