[Ultramus]

I have strong neck muscles and have no issues wearing the he-500s for hours at a time, however compared to my denons they aren't as comfortable even with nicer pads, and I attribute that almost entirely to the wight.

That said, the he-4 and abyss have both received stellar reviews, there is clearly evidence it isn't a sacrifice SQ wise, I'm fairly certain it is simply much easier to get good sound out of double sided than single, I feel like there is no difference in potential.

Give the good doctor some credit, he has earned it.

 

[tigon_ridge]

I have strong neck muscles and have no issues wearing the he-500s for hours at a time, however compared to my denons they aren't as comfortable even with nicer pads, and I attribute that almost entirely to the wight.

That said, the he-4 and abyss have both received stellar reviews, there is clearly evidence it isn't a sacrifice SQ wise

I have periods when I almost completely forget that I'm even wearing the HE-400 on my head. If that isn't comfort, I don't know what is. The 500 is only 60 grams heavier, I highly doubt that makes a significant difference in comfort. Also, I'm not saying that lighter necessarily means a compromise in SQ; however, I wouldn't personally sacrifice any SQ to shave off a few grams, or even 200 grams.
 
I have zero neck muscle. I'm a twig from head to toe (probably one of the most ectomorphic dudes you'll ever see). You shouldn't have to use any neck muscle to support the weight of your head; and if you do, you have poor posture. The average adult human head is about 4-5kg. Another 10% shouldn't make that big of a difference. Going form a 500g headphone to a 300g headphone, literally removes only about 3-4% of weight on your neck. Just keep your neck straight and vertical at all times, problem solved.
 
For those who experience pressure discomfort on the top of their heads, you can either grow more hair (haha), or make/buy a headband "pillow" of some sort to distribute the weight better.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Wear something like the MA900 and then put on the HE-400. You'll wish you hadn't, because it will ruin your perception of weight and comfort.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Wear something like the MA900 and then put on the HE-400. You'll wish you hadn't, because it will ruin your perception of weight and comfort.

Funny, I just took off my HE-400 after wearing them for 4 hours straight, after reading your post, and felt no relief; which means no discomfort ever existed. Unless the MA900 you suggest can make me feel more comfortable than not wearing anything on my head, then I beg to differ.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Dunno how anyone would consider the HE-400 'disappearing' off the head. Must have set the bar low for comfort. I find it relatively comfortable, but nothing special, and the weight is something that keeps the headphone 'present' at all times. It's heavy...undeniably so.

The HE-400 weighs 2.25x more than the MA900...

 

[tigon_ridge]

Even if it's 3x heavier, that should be negligible. I already explained the math. The only reason you could possibly have for having issue with the weight of any headphones is if your neck posture allows for strain to occur. Other factors for discomfort are weight distribution; or clamping force; or pads design. The weight of headphones has an amplifying effect on poor posture, due to torque, since the center of gravity is relatively far from the base of one's neck. If poor posture is exaggerated enough, you will experience discomfort even with a strong neck and no headphones being worn.
 
I owned an HD 650 that disappeared even better than the HE-400, but it is by a negligible degree. As I can recall, it was much lighter. Sennheiser's website shows 2.5N, which equals 254 grams.

 

[zxc]

I can wear the HE-500 for hours without much discomfort.

I recently had the opportunity to compare five headphones (HD600, HD700, HD800, He500, LCD2) over a couple of weeks. All Sennheisers are well designed and comfortable, period.

Audeze is not comfortable over long sessions, due to its poor headband design (low curvature creates pressure points). Unlike LCD-2, I can wear the HE-500 for a long time without much discomfort. The fact that I can tolerate it longer doesn't mean it's well designed and ergonomic though. The feeling you get when you first put on the headphone is significantly worse on the HE-500. I know it'll sound a little harsh, but it almost feels like it does not belong to your head. Even the LCD-2 feels much better when you first put it on, thanks to its thick, plush and soft leather pads with large oval cutouts (newer pads are like LCD-3's). Also, the LCD-2 feels more secure when you move your head.

Now I won't claim LCD-2 has a better design overall, it does not. It may look better, or be built better, but I cannot tolerate it for a long time, unlike the He500. And now that they're increasing their weight and keeping the same design with LCD-X, it's only going to get worse. Hifiman on the other hand, are definitely going in the right direction. Unless the sound quality is comprised, and there's no evidence it is, I applaud their recent efforts.

And let's get one thing straight. We're attaching metal and plastic contraptions to our head for the pleasure of listening high quality music. They better be well designed and ergonomic.

 

[Ultramus]

Weight in relation to how heavy our heads are is a silly argument.

When we wear something, like clothes, our body forgets it's weight after a while if it is under a certain threshold of pressure. An ideal headphone should fall into that category,after all speakers do not apply any pressure on my head. The 500s never dissolve into the background like the dt880, hd800, d2000.

Believe me, I LOVE my 500s, but the 560s will usurp the throne quickly if they offer just equal SQ and I can forget I'm wearing them.

 

[jerg]

For the whole comfort debate, I may be getting an early review sample of HE560 in the near future, and will compare it in all aspects to my HE500 and HE400. Admittedly my HE500 already has some comfort-based modifications already, while my HE400s are largely stock in terms of comfort, so I'll be able to gauge HE560's comfort level quite precisely.

 

[grizzlybeast]

as long as the cups on an open headphone fit over my whole ear I am fine.. I have yet to understand all this whining about comfort all the time with heavy headphones.
 
I have some possible solutions:

a. 

 
 
 wear this...
 

b.

 

  do some neck ups!!! lol

c. 

 

---

dont flag me i am just kidding!
 
I cant think of one over ear hp that i thought was uncomfortable but I guess that could be because I have a big head and neck. but then again my wife has a skinny neck and she cant get it either. to each his own.

 

[beaver316]

  For the whole comfort debate, I may be getting an early review sample of HE560 in the near future, and will compare it in all aspects to my HE500 and HE400. Admittedly my HE500 already has some comfort-based modifications already, while my HE400s are largely stock in terms of comfort, so I'll be able to gauge HE560's comfort level quite precisely.

 
Keep us posted. Fang should send you an HE-400i as well, because that's what I'm more interested in..... or maybe he should just send it to me.

 

[ethan7000]

All of this talk about weight, weight, weight. I'm a 5'4" 130 lbs guy, and I can wear my HE-400 all day without any breaks and feel no strain. I think some of you guys need to work on your posture, or something. I mean, there are people in world who are carrying >10 lbs baskets on their heads for extended periods of time. If you're feeling pressure pain at the top of your head after a while, then you must have very little hair. I have a head full of thick hair, which helps to distributes the weight much better. A 100 grams less may take care of that issue for you, but I think limiting the weight of headphones to 400 grams, at the expense of other aspects of design that could contribute to better sound quality, isn't justified for users like myself.

Good ideas, I think I'll start a headphone company that comes with hair attached to the headband haha

 

[MattTCG]

  For the whole comfort debate, I may be getting an early review sample of HE560 in the near future, and will compare it in all aspects to my HE500 and HE400. Admittedly my HE500 already has some comfort-based modifications already, while my HE400s are largely stock in terms of comfort, so I'll be able to gauge HE560's comfort level quite precisely.

 
Very interesting. Keep us posted. 
 

 

[grizzlybeast]

i am sure its pretty much guaranteed that they new ones will be more comfortable. They took a lot of considerations from jergs stuff already you can almost guess most of what he is going to say.

 

[jerg]

  i am sure its pretty much guaranteed that they new ones will be more comfortable. They took a lot of considerations from jergs stuff already you can almost guess most of what he is going to say.

Yeah, it'd be very hard to screw up the suspension strap in terms of comfort, I have high hopes in that regard.