[MickeyVee]

Why (for me).. because my next headphone must be closed so I can listen in the same room while the better half (yes, my wife) is watching TV or reading. We spend way too much time in separate rooms so I can listen to my HD650's and HE400's.
Quote:

 
Why?  One should just be able to find a used HE-500 in the $500 range and have a very classy headphone, that has quite a good and refined sound. 

 

[wje]

Quote:

Why (for me).. because my next headphone must be closed so I can listen in the same room while the better half (yes, my wife) is watching TV or reading. We spend way too much time in separate rooms so I can listen to my HD650's and HE400's.

 
I can understand - which is why some of us have opted to go the Fostex route and do some modding.  The fact still remains whether Denon's new headphone will be more than just a "Beats" wanna-be.  

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

Why (for me).. because my next headphone must be closed so I can listen in the same room while the better half (yes, my wife) is watching TV or reading. We spend way too much time in separate rooms so I can listen to my HD650's and HE400's.

 
If the new Denons are much like the old Denons, I would consider them "semi-closed", not closed.  They still let a lot of sound in and out.  HiFiMan is the most open headphone around, they allow more sound in and more sound out than pretty much anything.  HD650 is a bit more attenuating in both directions due to the stainless damping screen and all the foam packed in behind the driver.  The old Denons with the semi-open cup is somewhat more attenuating than that, but only somewhat.  It's more of a "shield" than a "closed cup."
 
If the new ones are much the same in design, I wouldn't go Denon if looking for isolation.  The semi-closed system is all about containing the bass frequencies as a rear-baffle in to enhance extension more than it is about isolation.   It's about as closed as a ported subwoofer

 

[project86]

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Great write-up!  My only critique of it is that it falls into the exact same trap, a little, that most of the professional reviews do, which is why HE-400 is probably the most impossible to categorize headphone.  You discussed the price difference from 400 to 500 being mostly due to the automation, but so many paragraphs read like you're trying to evaluate them with the pre-conception that they're from a lower tier and should have certain flaws.  It's not a knock on you, I haven't seen a single pro critic not do the exact same thing. 
 
But imagine if both headphones were $700 right now.  Think of what that would change in the review, positive or negative?  Does HE-400 have any flaws that would be unforgivable at the same price as HE-500?  Does it have any advantages that would suddenly appear instead of being flaws if they were both $700 headphones?  That sort of thing. Would HE-500 have some unforgivable flaws at an even price point where HE-400 would win?   I realize you don't have both, wje does, but those are the kinds of things I'd love to have seen from the pros, so it always pains me to see a subconcious attempt to pre-categorize this headphone as "the lower tier", since it's bound to have many differences unrelated to "better or worse" just by being voiced differently, and it would be a more true comparison to assume both are equals and contrast the strengths and weaknesses, than to start with the assumption that HE-500 is better, therefore all differences are a result of that. I liken the difference between HE-400 & HE-500 more as the difference between HD600 & HD650 than HD650 vs HD800. HD650 is technically superior to HD600, and is pricier, but they're so different that while one is technologically superior it would be impossible to subjectively or even objectively call one better than the other.  Each has a different signature and that's the overriding difference.  Manufactured via the same means, I think HE-400 and HE-500 would fit that description as well. 
 

 
 
I see your point, but it's somewhat unavoidable. HiFiMAN sets the prices and thus sets the HE-400 up to be viewed in a certain context. I enter into a review in light of that context, though by the end I sometimes find that the item has transcended its particular category and actually competes on a higher level. Or sometimes the opposite is true (unfortunately).
 
I somewhat agree with your HE-400/500 to HD600/650 analogy, but not completely. I think the HD650 is very closely related to the HD600, with a different tuning. It may be slightly more technically correct, but not by a large margin. Also, there are many who feel that the HD600 remains the more accurate model, at the expense of being less fun. On the other hand, HE-500 is clearly technically superior to HE-400. See the InnerFidelity measurements - specifically the square waves, THD+noise, and impulse response. It isn't a matter of the HE-400 simply having a more "fun" sound sig while the HE-500 is more accurate - the HE-500 is better in a number of ways. That doesn't mean the HE-400 is bad, nor does it mean one can't prefer it. But I do see the HE-500 justifiably belonging to a higher tier, one that isn't artificially created by price. 

 

[MattTCG]

Just yesterday, I upgraded my amp/dac. I purchased a Schitt Asgard and Music Streamer ii. After listening for a few days, I'll post some impressions.

 

[Hedonism]

Congratulations! Hope you're enjoying your new components. Let us know how the D5K's improve with a better amp and DAC as well, please. 

 

[MattTCG]

Will do. Right now I'm spending a lot of time with the he400 and new amp. I haven't been able to listen to anything but the d5k for a while. 

 

[MattTCG]

Okay, I've had five days now on the Asgard and htr msii so I thought that I'd post some impressions. This will be a brief review of how this amp/dac work with the he400 and d5k for comparison. 
 
There is only one fitting title for this mini review, so let me get this out of the way now: "Hot Schitt!!" The Asgard gets about as hot as a Belgium waffle iron. Crazy hot. I suppose that Schitt is not having build issues with this heat as the whole case, made of aluminum, acted as a heat sink. I think it would be fair to say that the amp would a degree or two to the room temperature. 
 
Now that I've got that out of the way...on to the sound. I had used the fiio17 with both sets of headphones for about a month before I got the new amp setup. So that is my point of reference and the amp that I'll be comparing to. The Asgard/msii is definitely better but only marginally and that varies depending on which hp I'm listening with. More on that later.
 
The Asgard is leaning more towards neutral compared to the e17 and other amps that I've owned. In general it tightens the bass and rolls off the highs just a touch. For me this setup has become almost a perfect match for the d5k. It tames the bass slightly while at the same time giving it good texture and nice impact. I was blown away the first time that I listened to the Asgard with the d5k. IMO that denon can be a touch bright. With the highs rolled off ever so slightly and the bass hitting hard with improved impact....it was heaven. Also the new sound signature was a bit less fatiguing. I have not heard a better combination of amp/dac for the d5k than Asgard/msii. For the price point and the sound quality, I feel this setup is the sweet spot for the denon line. I don't call myself a loud listener of music. For those that have the fiio e17, I usually listen between 20-30 on low gain with the d5k and the same with he400 except +12 on the gain. There is A LOT more volume/power on the Schitt. But what I really like about cranking up the Asgard is that it doesn't just get instantly loud. The volume just seems to get fuller and more presence with no loss of quality. 
 
Now for the he400, the pairing of Asgard/msii is very good but not quite as good as it was for the d5k. Because the he400 has that wonderfully dark signature, I really don't feel the need to roll off the treble like I do with the d5k. Also, the bass with the he400's doesn't need to be tightened. It's one of the things that I really enjoy about them. Now granted these changes are very small and compared mostly to the e17. The Asgard is better sounding than the e17 with the HFM, but the level of improvement here is smaller than with the d5k.
 
Bottom line impressions:
 
Fiio e17:
 
d5k=7 of 10
he400=8 of 10
 
Asgard/msii
 
d5k=9 of 10
he400=9 of 10
 
*After a few additional nights of listening, I've changed my score on the Asgard/he400 to a 9 of 10

 

[wje]

Matt,
 
Thanks for your impressions on the pairing of both amps / DACs with the HifiMAN and Denon headphones.  Hopefully, some of the member community will catch your post for some initial impressions on how things fared and answer some questions that they thought about asking.

 

[I95North]

Wow this became a dieing thread i see!
 
Can anyone tell me if a tube preamp will make a big difference when pairing it to just a headphone amp?? I looking at some Quad II knock off on ebay and i wonder if i should try that preamp out with a Wire Amp to to drive my he-400 and 500??

 

[MattTCG]

For me, the HFM is already "warm" and doesn't need the added warmness of a tube amp. The hybrid lyr is about as good as it gets for the he500 but I feel is too much for the he400. 
 
I have heard them both on lyr and asgard with the bifrost as dac and I prefer the asgard and bifrost combo.
 
gL!!

 

[jerg]

My old pair of HE400s were pretty warm in sound signature but the replacement is more "dead-centre" in terms of warmness/coldness, I wouldn't have it veer either way, it's just right.

 

[jeckyll]

I just picked up some HE400's.  Absolutely love them.  I'm driving them off a Fiio E10, which has plenty of juice to power these.  
 
Nothing else to add, these just make me smile when I listen to music, and really, I can't ask for much more 

 

[MattTCG]

Glad you like them. There's more potential in there if and when you decide to upgrade that e10 

 

[jeckyll]

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Glad you like them. There's more potential in there if and when you decide to upgrade that e10 

 
I've been thinking of adding a Pioneer SX 650 / 750 for headphone listening.  But space is at a bit of a premium right now so I'm holding off.  I may eventually look at moving up DAC/amp wise, but for now I think the e10 is going to get the primary duty for driving these