[ojrobinson]

  The 400s are the base for bass! No really though they threw me for a loop the first time I set them on my desk while I had some Prodigy playing; I could actually hear the bass almost as much on the desk as on my head! Dynamic drivers need a seal and something to bounce of off to create that and thus sound like you would expect them to when you take them off. 
 
Still boggles my mind how this works, I think it must have something to do with the sheer size of the plastic diaphragm and the way it displaces air.

Can definitely agree with you on that one! 

 

[PaulMC2]

So I just received some HE-400s(with velour pads) from the for sale forum and am really enjoying them so far.

Currently running them from my PC through a Fiio e10k(upgrade in the near future hopefully). Comparing them to my other general use head phones, the Sony MDR-MA900 they best them in just about every way bar comfort, however I think the Sony's comfort is hard to compete with. **Insert Flanders wearing nothing at all joke. I usually listen to a mixture of EDM and house with a little bit of other random genres here and there.

The base on the cans is like nothing I've personally heard before, it is so satisfying from a non bass head perspective. They are able to go much lower and with more impact than the Sony's while still not leaking into the mid range. Comparing Soundstage between the 2 I am really struggling to spot a difference. So far I have yet to encounter the harsh highs.

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in!

When I first got these I wasn't impressed but once I had changed to the velor pads and used them a while wow, shame that my z3 won't drive them but I knew that when I brought them

 

[ojrobinson]

When I first got these I wasn't impressed but once I had changed to the velor pads and used them a while wow, shame that my z3 won't drive them but I knew that when I brought them

From what I had read about the stock pleather I didn't even bother giving them a run with those on first haha. I literally opened the box and changed the pads right away.

 

[RushNerd]

Same here, I was expecting some kind of magic out of them, but honestly it only took me like a day to totally warm up to them. I'm going to need another amp though, I used the Asus Essense STX soundcard last time to drive them and seemed to work quite well.

 

[ojrobinson]

  Same here, I was expecting some kind of magic out of them, but honestly it only took me like a day to totally warm up to them. I'm going to need another amp though, I used the Asus Essense STX soundcard last time to drive them and seemed to work quite well.

Reading what other people have said a basic amp is perfectly okay to push them to an easily audible volume but they do scale up quite well with bigger and better desktop setups.

 

[MrMateoHead]

  What do you guys think about the HE-400 as a first high quality headphones? I'm looking into buying my first pair of >40 dollar headphones and while I'm sure many of the options laid out before be will blow me away, I want to make an informed decision. (I'd try them and other headphones out, but I live in the middle of nowhere) All the terminology I've been reading about I can barely understand since I'm pretty new to the scene. Terms like "recessed upper mids" is just the same as a foreign language to me at this point.
 
Thanks for any info!

Hi JimJim -
 
For less than $400 you have access to a range of very, very good Headphones, from the HE-400s to popular Sennheisers etc.
 
But here are a few facts -
 
1) You probably "prefer" a certain sound already, and don't know it.
2) The best way to explore your own preferences is to demo as many headphones as you can
3) The second best way to explore headphones is to demo as many as you can
4) Frequency response curves (like those from headphone.com or Innerfidelity.com), are based on "raw data" that has been "transformed" by what is believed to be the way that people actually perceive sound.
5) Presently, companies like Harmon International are revising that compensation curve to reflect what is objectively a "flat response" as well as what is objectively considered an "ideal" or "preferable" response. The way they are doing this is with trained/untrained listeners and it is a welcome change. An end result appears to have been some new products (the NAD HP50, Focal Spirit Classic/Professional, PSB M4Us I believe) notable for their "neutral" (i.e. "flat") frequency response and overall awesome sound (closer to "good good speakers in a good room"). I haven't gotten my hands on any of those, but my interest is high - I tend to like flatter-sounding speakers.
The point is, frequency response curves in the headphone space will never tell the whole story. Especially at the moment! So, when someone talks about "treble spikes" or "recessed mids", they are typically responding to the information as presented in current frequency response plots, which in any case is based on now out-of-date response curves. Others will claim it is based on their deep subjective knowledge, but as it is subjective, it may not apply to you.
6) You probably shouldn't buy on frequency response curves alone (hence this forum can be helpful to get the users' opinions)
7) The HE-400 sound their best on a good amp, if you don't want to get an amp, buy something else! (Many, many headphones work fine without one).
8) The HE-400 are not "flat" headphones, and were not impressive to many people on a FIRST listen. They get better with time. They get better on velour or modded pads, and with a slight treble cut (3 dB around 8-11 kHz).
9) "recessed mids" refers to the "upper" mids which is really part of the "treble" area if you break down the bass/mid/treble frequencies a bit differently (anything over say 3 khz is really getting into the treble IMO as I think of midrange as capturing most of the human voice). The HE-400s actually have a great midrange IMHO, and my more "mid forward" HD595s do not satisfy me THAT much more in that area (and in fact can be a tad "hot"). In any case, the HD595s got nothing on the HE-400s bass (which is both more extended and more textured).
10) Your favorite music will dictate, to an extent, your satisfaction with any headphone. That booming bass, or "sparkling" treble may be distracting if you love genres like classical or jazz. If you are an "everything" person like me, gravitate toward headphones that are primarily neutral. That will tend to sound good despite the variety of "distorted" or "high resolution" recordings out there. The HE-400s are somewhat "neutral" to my ears as they are amazing for jazz, and good for classical. They falter somewhat in "revealing" the clipping and popping and static of screwed up modern pop recordings (particularly when the vocals are too "hot", e.g. most female pop recordings I've heard).
 
All that said, if you are new to the hobby, I recommend spending a lot less. I went from $50 to $100 to $250 headphones before spending $400(!) on the HE-400s. There are many excellent products from reputable manufacturers in the $200 to $300 dollar range and I am sure they will produce 90% of the sound you might be looking for. I honestly started getting "buyers remorse" after getting into the $400 range. That is just a lot of dough for what is not necessarily the "end all be all" in sound and I started definitely getting "diminishing returns" (improvement in sound not as great as rise in cost). Also, I was ultimately a bit let down a bit in the comfort/quality of parts with the HE-400. I would recommend them, but only if you really got a hankering for planar magnetic (of which they are the most affordable I know of). That is what happened to me!
This is a great hobby, but unless you absolutely CANNOT blast speakers where you are, I would enter it with caution as GOOD information is tough to find.

 

[MrMateoHead]

  Sometimes. Not all of them or every track even for a given album. Sia was one that really got to me a few times. Another one was Jollie Holland. Tom Waits killed me on some of his stuff. Even a couple songs from Dave Matthews got harsh. Those were all CD's.

You are hearing the recording, not necessarily the headphone's fault. Dave Matthew's recent recordings are trash compared to his older stuff (wicked compressed which is a shame).
 
When I investigate a bad recording, I use Audacity to look for clipping. But I think the reality is that a lot of stuff is just over-processed these days. I LOVE Lana Del Rey's Ultraviolence CD, but the experience is totally different going from stereo to headphone to car. It took the HD595s to notice that there is just a lot of resonance built in to the tracks that make them a little fatiguing and "busy" despite the otherwise intimate presentation.

 

[ArmAndHammer]

 
You are hearing the recording, not necessarily the headphone's fault. Dave Matthew's recent recordings are trash compared to his older stuff (wicked compressed which is a shame).
 
When I investigate a bad recording, I use Audacity to look for clipping. But I think the reality is that a lot of stuff is just over-processed these days. I LOVE Lana Del Rey's Ultraviolence CD, but the experience is totally different going from stereo to headphone to car. It took the HD595s to notice that there is just a lot of resonance built in to the tracks that make them a little fatiguing and "busy" despite the otherwise intimate presentation.

Maybe...but if the headphones aren't going to play the recordings I have well, they are worthless. But for the record...it was some of his old stuff that I was listening to. Late 90's early 2000's.

 

[MrMateoHead]

  Maybe...but if the headphones aren't going to play the recordings I have well, they are worthless. But for the record...it was some of his old stuff that I was listening to. Late 90's early 2000's.

I have pretty much every single DMB album. Which songs were the worst to your ears? I want to listen for myself to see if I can hear what you hear.

 

[money4me247]

Hi JimJim -

For less than $400 you have access to a range of very, very good Headphones, from the HE-400s to popular Sennheisers etc.

But here are a few facts -

1) You probably "prefer" a certain sound already, and don't know it.
2) The best way to explore your own preferences is to demo as many headphones as you can
3) The second best way to explore headphones is to demo as many as you can
4) Frequency response curves (like those from headphone.com or Innerfidelity.com), are based on "raw data" that has been "transformed" by what is believed to be the way that people actually perceive sound.
5) Presently, companies like Harmon International are revising that compensation curve to reflect what is objectively a "flat response" as well as what is objectively considered an "ideal" or "preferable" response. The way they are doing this is with trained/untrained listeners and it is a welcome change. An end result appears to have been some new products (the NAD HP50, Focal Spirit Classic/Professional, PSB M4Us I believe) notable for their "neutral" (i.e. "flat") frequency response and overall awesome sound (closer to "good good speakers in a good room"). I haven't gotten my hands on any of those, but my interest is high - I tend to like flatter-sounding speakers.
The point is, frequency response curves in the headphone space will never tell the whole story. Especially at the moment! So, when someone talks about "treble spikes" or "recessed mids", they are typically responding to the information as presented in current frequency response plots, which in any case is based on now out-of-date response curves. Others will claim it is based on their deep subjective knowledge, but as it is subjective, it may not apply to you.
6) You probably shouldn't buy on frequency response curves alone (hence this forum can be helpful to get the users' opinions)
7) The HE-400 sound their best on a good amp, if you don't want to get an amp, buy something else! (Many, many headphones work fine without one).
8) The HE-400 are not "flat" headphones, and were not impressive to many people on a FIRST listen. They get better with time. They get better on velour or modded pads, and with a slight treble cut (3 dB around 8-11 kHz).
9) "recessed mids" refers to the "upper" mids which is really part of the "treble" area if you break down the bass/mid/treble frequencies a bit differently (anything over say 3 khz is really getting into the treble IMO as I think of midrange as capturing most of the human voice). The HE-400s actually have a great midrange IMHO, and my more "mid forward" HD595s do not satisfy me THAT much more in that area (and in fact can be a tad "hot"). In any case, the HD595s got nothing on the HE-400s bass (which is both more extended and more textured).
10) Your favorite music will dictate, to an extent, your satisfaction with any headphone. That booming bass, or "sparkling" treble may be distracting if you love genres like classical or jazz. If you are an "everything" person like me, gravitate toward headphones that are primarily neutral. That will tend to sound good despite the variety of "distorted" or "high resolution" recordings out there. The HE-400s are somewhat "neutral" to my ears as they are amazing for jazz, and good for classical. They falter somewhat in "revealing" the clipping and popping and static of screwed up modern pop recordings (particularly when the vocals are too "hot", e.g. most female pop recordings I've heard).

All that said, if you are new to the hobby, I recommend spending a lot less. I went from $50 to $100 to $250 headphones before spending $400(!) on the HE-400s. There are many excellent products from reputable manufacturers in the $200 to $300 dollar range and I am sure they will produce 90% of the sound you might be looking for. I honestly started getting "buyers remorse" after getting into the $400 range. That is just a lot of dough for what is not necessarily the "end all be all" in sound and I started definitely getting "diminishing returns" (improvement in sound not as great as rise in cost). Also, I was ultimately a bit let down a bit in the comfort/quality of parts with the HE-400. I would recommend them, but only if you really got a hankering for planar magnetic (of which they are the most affordable I know of). That is what happened to me!
This is a great hobby, but unless you absolutely CANNOT blast speakers where you are, I would enter it with caution as GOOD information is tough to find.

this is some good advice.

def dont take what ppl say abt different frequency responses too seriously until you have a chance to hear a bit more variety of headphones and can tell the what kinda of frequency response you actually like.

regards to the 'harshness' comment above, it wld be primarily due to your source paired with the he400s sound sig + the he400s very resolving nature. may find that other high end headphones run into similar problems with those songs. of course, i think it does make sense for you to pick a different pair of headphones if thats your experience, but when i had the he400s, i only found 2-3 songs with harshness and they were definitely poorly mastered. ...aka similiar harshess can be heard when using other very detailed headphones like the q701, he560, etc.

 

[htr2d2]

  Maybe...but if the headphones aren't going to play the recordings I have well, they are worthless. But for the record...it was some of his old stuff that I was listening to. Late 90's early 2000's.

Not meaning to point out the obvious, but any headphone worth its salt is going to display the faults of poor recordings. True, the more detailed a headphone the more glaring the faults, but detail is in my opinion a characteristic of quality drivers. Do not confuse the aforementioned with the "neutrality" of a headphone. Different discussion entirely.
 

 
You are hearing the recording, not necessarily the headphone's fault. Dave Matthew's recent recordings are trash compared to his older stuff (wicked compressed which is a shame).
 
When I investigate a bad recording, I use Audacity to look for clipping. But I think the reality is that a lot of stuff is just over-processed these days. I LOVE Lana Del Rey's Ultraviolence CD, but the experience is totally different going from stereo to headphone to car. It took the HD595s to notice that there is just a lot of resonance built in to the tracks that make them a little fatiguing and "busy" despite the otherwise intimate presentation.

 
MrMateoHead have you ever used MusicScope? Thoughts, anyone? I was thinking of purchasing it, but sounds like you are obtaining the same inspection through Audacity? I have used audacity but not to identify clipping. Never thought of it, truthfully.
 
https://www.xivero.com/musicscope/

 

[diamondears]

Agree with above comments that a quality driver/HP would reveal faults of poor recordings.

Armandhammer, maybe it's time to buy better audiophile recordings...

 

[diamondears]

Btw, any of you here bought the OCC balanced HP cable and use it with the HE-400? This is one of the stock cable in the HE-6. Anyone? It's $150, not really that expensive but not cheap either.

 

[JoshPelican]

Can't comment on the OCC cable, but I just ordered my first replacement cable for my HE400s. Got a nice Forza Audio Works cable being made! 

 

[manbear]

 
But here are a few facts -
 
So, when someone talks about "treble spikes" or "recessed mids", they are typically responding to the information as presented in current frequency response plots, which in any case is based on now out-of-date response curves. Others will claim it is based on their deep subjective knowledge, but as it is subjective, it may not apply to you.
 
8) The HE-400 are not "flat" headphones, and were not impressive to many people on a FIRST listen. They get better with time. They get better on velour or modded pads, and with a slight treble cut (3 dB around 8-11 kHz).

Why do you poo poo the idea that the HE-400 has a treble spike and then recommend EQ to reduce said treble spike? 

How much the treble spike bothers you is certainly a personal matter (I would recommend a cut more in the ballpark of 12 dB...), but I don't see the point in trying to deny that they HE-400 has a treble spike. It's a bright headphone.