[Thujone]

As far as the discussion on timbre/sibilance/etc goes, I appreciate all the comments. It has helped me understand the issue that I kept bring up. Granted, not many of you agree on the subject 

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Here are photos and initial impressions of the Modulor Jergpads, as promised. Link

I'm getting tingles...

 

[wje]

For those looking to jump into the HE-400 pool, there's a vendor on Ebay selling them for $324.##, with free economy shipping in the U.S.  If you desire 2-day FedEx shipping, then the charge is $24.##.  Keep in mind, the HE-400 is being sold by a vendor who is not authorized.  However, a SquareTrade warranty is offered for $49.99 and I believe it is for a 3-year term.
 
Additionally, though, if you buy a pair of HE-400s that are used, keep in mind that the warranty does not transfer from the original buyer to the future owner.  So, finding a used pair on the forum could still put you in the same category as buying from a non-authorized vendor.
 
To me, though, the HE-400 is certainly one of the best bargains in headphones today.  Sure, one can apply some sound adjustments to be able to have the headphones suit their tastes.  Then again, I don't think there are too many of us who have purchased a pair of headphones that we've completely loved out of the box.  Over time, we've realized that a certain signature wasn't for us, so we sold them and moved on.  After having the experience to move up the HifiMan food chain a bit, I've realized that an upgrade from the HE-400 doesn't really necessarily mean that one would get an HE-400, and with much more of what the HE-400 offered.  Instead, one is essentially getting a more refined sound.  To lots of music genres, the ability to have the HE-500 or HE-5LE handle those, then those models might be something worth considering.  However, I'd really encourage someone considering an upgrade to see if you can demo a pair that you're considering before taking the leap.  Sure, there are vendors who offer a 30-day return policy, but personally, I try to avoid using that option if I can because I'd hate to abuse it in the event I really needed to use it.
 
In the end, I've realized I'm a tweaker.  I'll always be a tweaker and having a bit of challenge to fine-tune the HE-400, for me, is well worth is because the HE-400 has quite a bit of grunt to it which can make much of our music sound quite stunning.

 

[soundeffect]

Wayne, how is it like for you to go back to the he400? Do you miss the he500? Any regrets? I'm sure the extra cash makes it easier for you.

 

[wje]

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Wayne, how is it like for you to go back to the he400? Do you miss the he500? Any regrets? I'm sure the extra cash makes it easier for you.

 
After having the HE-5LE, HE-500 and the HE-4 following my HE-400, I have no regrets at all coming back to the HE-400.  Sure, there are some things the other models do offer.  However, to a degree, the also have what can seem at times, a bit less bass.  This though, depends on the type of music, etc.  Plus, having the "5" series from HifiMan meant that I treated them more like a trophy as opposed to a headphone that I'd use daily.  The final straw came when I looked over at my pair of HE-500s at the time and realized they had been sitting on my Woo Audio stand for about a month.  To me, that just seemed crazy, so I put them up for sale.  I used my Sennheiser HD-600s for about three months until getting the itch to try the HE-400 again.  So far, so good.  No regrets.
 
As to the extra cash, that's sort of a wash to me.  My wife knows how much I love audio and making a splurge here and there won't cause issues.  But, doing so every 6 weeks does turn up the heat a little.  So, here I am with the HE-400 and thinking of myself as an audio enthusiast again.  I get to tweak a bit, use the EQ a bit, focus towards one of the JergPad mods, etc.  This is the fun part.  The other models didn't really lend themselves to tweaking -- again, due to treating them like a trophy.
 
Ironically, I also read a piece recently on the HE-6 and the reviewer was noting a higher frequency spike that was a bit bothersome.  That had me thinking a bit.  Here, one is with a $1,300 pair of headphones and they would, or might have to perform a level of adjustments to get the sound into a tasteful zone -- depending on their particular tastes.  I've read similar reviews on the Stax headphones, too.  If the reviewer is objective, they'll state such items in their review and not just sugarcoat 100% of the review and make one think that the model is truly the best, and great at everything.

 

[M-13]

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After having the HE-5LE, HE-500 and the HE-4 following my HE-400, I have no regrets at all coming back to the HE-400.  Sure, there are some things the other models do offer.  However, to a degree, the also have what can seem at times, a bit less bass.  This though, depends on the type of music, etc.  Plus, having the "5" series from HifiMan meant that I treated them more like a trophy as opposed to a headphone that I'd use daily.  The final straw came when I looked over at my pair of HE-500s at the time and realized they had been sitting on my Woo Audio stand for about a month.  To me, that just seemed crazy, so I put them up for sale.  I used my Sennheiser HD-600s for about three months until getting the itch to try the HE-400 again.  So far, so good.  No regrets.
 
As to the extra cash, that's sort of a wash to me.  My wife knows how much I love audio and making a splurge here and there won't cause issues.  But, doing so every 6 weeks does turn up the heat a little.  So, here I am with the HE-400 and thinking of myself as an audio enthusiast again.  I get to tweak a bit, use the EQ a bit, focus towards one of the JergPad mods, etc.  This is the fun part.  The other models didn't really lend themselves to tweaking -- again, due to treating them like a trophy.
 
Ironically, I also read a piece recently on the HE-6 and the reviewer was noting a higher frequency spike that was a bit bothersome.  That had me thinking a bit.  Here, one is with a $1,300 pair of headphones and they would, or might have to perform a level of adjustments to get the sound into a tasteful zone -- depending on their particular tastes.  I've read similar reviews on the Stax headphones, too.  If the reviewer is objective, they'll state such items in their review and not just sugarcoat 100% of the review and make one think that the model is truly the best, and great at everything.

Great thoughtful post. Yeah you can't treat your headphones like a trophy, have to treat them like normal tools for music listening. Otherwise sell the damn thing. This reminds me of when I used to collect luxury watches. I was afraid to wear them outside becaue they were collector items and any dings/nicks could cost me thousands of dollars in resale value. (This of course was when I had more money and not now LOL)
 
I think the thing with the HE-6 is that it actually has some resonance up in the treble area. Can't remember exactly where, but it's "benign" according to people who know and measure these things, but it still sucks becaue the HE-400/HE-500 does not have any resonance issues and presents a very clean CSD. The treble is also described as etchy (not sibilant) but a bit rough at times. These are the reasons I'm not too interested in the HE-6. The thing the HE-500 is great for is that smooth treble. It's amazing because the treble isn't really recessed yet is never offensive.

 

[soundeffect]

its good your going down to the he400 as many says right under $500 is a good place.  i wont be surprise if i do the same.I just received my he500 today and saw your post and had to ask.  i wont be able to listen to them though until a few days.  im more worried about the comment people been saying how the he500 is more of a relax sounding hifiman and i find all the planars ive tried are relaxing than exciting. then again i came from the D2000.  but this hobby never seems to surprise me as before i didnt think i would like open headphone or non heavy bass headphone, spending over $200, buying a desktop amp the list goes on. gotta love headfi 

 lets see where this headphone takes me.  

 

[M-13]

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its good your going down to the he400 as many says right under $500 is a good place.  i wont be surprise if i do the same.I just received my he500 today and saw your post and had to ask.  i wont be able to listen to them though until a few days.  im more worried about the comment people been saying how the he500 is more of a relax sounding hifiman and i find all the planars ive tried are relaxing than exciting. then again i came from the D2000.  but this hobby never seems to surprise me as before i didnt think i would like open headphone or non heavy bass headphone, spending over $200, buying a desktop amp the list goes on. gotta love headfi 

 lets see where this headphone takes me.  

That whole relax sounding thing disappears when you drive the HE-500 from speaker taps. They get aggressive as hell, not to mention explosive. Quite surprising actually once you hear it and just jaw-dropping amazing. Either that or hunt down vintage amps and use the headphone out if you don't want to do speaker taps.

 

[soundeffect]

actually im debating to do that as the emotiva is pretty affortable.

 

[M-13]

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actually im debating to do that as the emotiva is pretty affortable.

This might work.

 

[wje]

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actually im debating to do that as the emotiva is pretty affortable.

 
If you do go the route of the Emotiva amp, read through the thread because a member posted pictures a few days ago how they had installed a front mount 1/4" headphone jack.  This eliminated the need for speaker taps, as well as a balanced cable.  Plus, it looks pretty sharp, too.

 

[M-13]

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If you do go the route of the Emotiva amp, read through the thread because a member posted pictures a few days ago how they had installed a front mount 1/4" headphone jack.  This eliminated the need for speaker taps, as well as a balanced cable.  Plus, it looks pretty sharp, too.

Yeah I love Koiloco. He's a nice guy who's got some skillz.

 

[soundeffect]

i saw that,  but man its a clean job he did and might be as easy as it seems.  thats why i was saying my options. ive also been thinking about the lyr and audio gdsfor its flexibility to work with other headphones. a lot of decisions at a bad time for me too. it might take me  few weeks to a month before i make a decision as ive been busy with my family.

 

[jmsaxon69]

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i saw that,  but man its a clean job he did and might be as easy as it seems.  thats why i was saying my options. ive also been thinking about the lyr and audio gdsfor its flexibility to work with other headphones. a lot of decisions at a bad time for me too. it might take me  few weeks to a month before i make a decision as ive been busy with my family.

That's the main reason I spent the money on the Lyr, it will drive anything and I still get to play with tubes!  I started with a Valhalla and was limited to what headphones I could drive to the potential of the amp, so I figured this is the way to go, I hear such great things about the Lyr with my 2 main cans and the ones I have my eye on (LCD2), so really excited to get it tomorrow! I ordered a nice set of tubes for it as well.
 
When I saw the pictures of the Emotiva i was like, wait a minute I thought that piece didn't have a headphone out? He did a great job, maybe he will post some details on what he did? Or did he? I need to check it again...

 

[jmsaxon69]

I did some experimenting last night with my hE-400 and the NAD stuff in my sig.  Since I am in between headphone amps with the Lyr en-route I decided to see if the famous NAD smoothness would make a good match for the HE-400.  So last night I hooked up the NAD C356BEE DAC (integrated amp with built in 24/96 DAC) my PC(JRiver Media Center 18) with a Chord Company Silver USB, the NAD SACD/DVD-Audio player with a pair of Kimber Kable Hero interconnects all plugged into an Adcom ACE-515 line conditioner.  I A/B'd Steely Dan's "Guacho" on DVD-Audio and 24/96 FLAC.  The DVD Audio definitely sounded better, maybe a better DAC than the amp? Maybe the Kimber Hero was smoothing out the high end a bit? It was a nice sound, tamed the HE-400 a bit and still had a nice sound stage etc...Listened to the Paul Simon track mentioned earlier in the thread to see how it sounded with the sibilance, it was still there of course, but a little easier to swallow than on the DragonFly.  If anyone wants that track to do the experiment, send me a PM and I'll get it to you.

 

[MrMateoHead]

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Guys, lets please be careful with topic that should belong in sound science and keep the discussion moving forward and relevant to the he400. This thread has been a wealth of information on many fronts and fun to hang out in. I'd hate to see it get locked. Please use caution...

Yes I am done with the debate as well. I do want to post this link however, if anyone wants to listen to samples of fundamental v. harmonics (and a useful resource in general):
 
http://auditoryneuroscience.com/topics/missing-fundamental
 
It is certainly helping me to organize my subjective impressions of headphones like the HE-400 around more 'objective' criteria.
 
Thanks for a thought provoking discussion!