[Focker]

 The 400's ... also have a very high treble response

I"ve only had my pair for a couple weeks, but this is not something I've noticed. 

 

[DDDamian]

  I"ve only had my pair for a couple weeks, but this is not something I've noticed. 

More like a spike - usually located at ~9khz, that some folks can find grating. Not very linear up there.

 

[diamondears]

Sorry if this has been discussed already...but is there a mod that could be done (aside from the velour pads mod) to deal with the 1k and 9-10k peaks?

Can someone point me somewhere?

 

[TMRaven]

Velour pads get rid of the 1k resonance that pleather pads have.  Use EQ to mitigate the 12khz peak on the HE-400.

 

[diamondears]

Velour pads get rid of the 1k resonance that pleather pads have.  Use EQ to mitigate the 12khz peak on the HE-400.

Yeah, using EQ right now and have the velour pads. But I'm thinking there might be a way to deal with the peaks using the pleather pads (prefer its seal and comfort) and without EQ.

Is there a way to deal with the peaks by using sort of paddings like felt etc. inside the grille?

 

[TMRaven]

Masking energy that high up while keeping energy below in-tact requires very thin material, as to only reduce the super high frequency treble.
 
I've not tried or needed to do any of that, as EQ provides the simplest change with desirable results.  Most of the energy around 12khz of the HE-400 is not a direct result of resonance, but just a tuning decision, so there's nothing that damping can do that EQ can't do just as well.

 

[diamondears]

Masking energy that high up while keeping energy below in-tact requires very thin material, as to only reduce the super high frequency treble.

I've not tried or needed to do any of that, as EQ provides the simplest change with desirable results.  Most of the energy around 12khz of the HE-400 is not a direct result of resonance, but just a tuning decision, so there's nothing that damping can do that EQ can't do just as well.

I do the EQ when using the iPhone (with Onkyo Player app), but I like listening to my CD player from time to time. The HE-400's bass is so good in this setup, but the treble peaks at 9k and 12k are lessening the experience... Is there a specific type of thin material that's proven to lessen only the 9-12k region?

 

[DDDamian]

Is there a specific type of thin material that's proven to lessen only the 9-12k region?

Yes, the HD-650. 

 

[MrMateoHead]

Yeah, using EQ right now and have the velour pads. But I'm thinking there might be a way to deal with the peaks using the pleather pads (prefer its seal and comfort) and without EQ.

Is there a way to deal with the peaks by using sort of paddings like felt etc. inside the grille?

The modded pleathers improve on sound a whole lot. Remove the Hard Foam inner trim ring (which seems to be there as a kind of spacer / support. Then cut up the plastic rings a tad and remove pleather material from the inner walls of the pads themselves - quells the ringing enough to make them quite competitive with the velours in sound quality.
 
Otherwise, the "purist" approach is not going to fix the problem, sorry. Then again I've not usually found the treble to be the main issue with these phones.

 

[MrMateoHead]

 
Well you're being a bit facetious but I'll indulge. Analogies are never perfect but provided someone doesn't attempt to nitpick them apart, they give a general overview of the comparison in a way some people may find easier to understand, others may need a different analogy.
 
There are dozens of factors in an amplifier and speaker set up that effect things like speed, distortion, loudness, etc. Even 2 amps, with the same rated power, may have very different speaker response on the same source material due to non audio things like the power supply etc. Electrical mechanical engineering is a very complex subject and we could be here all day outlining the finer points of it.

 
So I guess what you are actually trying to say is that buying more power is always better than buying "enough" or "a little" power. Whatever. Even though I can support some of your claims with my own experience, the examples would have to be qualified in a totally different way. I just don't want laypeople here seeking good advice and high value products to be mislead by claims that "more power" always improves subjective sound quality (or that more power is the "best" way to improve sound quality, it is not). Unless you are ready to lecture us all on electromechanical theory and provide examples of documented improvements in amp/driver performance backed up with blind listening tests, I suggest you take it easy on the claims you are making as they are dubious at best and completely wrong at worst.
 
Or, if you want, prove to me that the Planar drivers in the HE-400, which show pretty good distortion at 90 dB and increasing distortion at 100 dB, are going to somehow sound better when I push 4 watts to them instead of the mere 0.33 mWs required to get to 90 dB - already a very, very loud listening level that, to my ears, sounds nasty compared to a more reasonable SPL. Play your amps and speakers within their performance envelopes and I would suspect you'll find them enjoyable 100% of the time. I love the HE-400s but they are never going to be the 120 dB gun blasts that I can get from other speakers I own.

 

[DDDamian]

Agree with one thing you said above (leaving the power debate out): Both my planars seem to distort at lower volumes than my dynamic faves the HD-650. They both have very nice sound, but for times when I want full-bore rock I'll reach for the dynamic cans every time.
 
Where I find the LCD2.2 stands out (and to some degree the HE-400) is the level of dynamics and detail at lower volumes.

 

[Focker]

  Velour pads get rid of the 1k resonance that pleather pads have.  Use EQ to mitigate the 12khz peak on the HE-400.

 
That might be why I haven't heard any issues like that...I bought the velours when I bought the headphones

 

[DavidA]

  Agree with one thing you said above (leaving the power debate out): Both my planars seem to distort at lower volumes than my dynamic faves the HD-650. They both have very nice sound, but for times when I want full-bore rock I'll reach for the dynamic cans every time.
 
Where I find the LCD2.2 stands out (and to some degree the HE-400) is the level of dynamics and detail at lower volumes.

How high is the volume when you start to hear distortion?  Like rock concert level? or higher?  I rarely get even close to rock concert level, it gets painful, did enough damage to my ears going to many in my younger days, at this level I've never heard distortions with any of the Hifiman or Audeze headphones that I owned.

 

[Kodhifi]

Yeah, using EQ right now and have the velour pads. But I'm thinking there might be a way to deal with the peaks using the pleather pads (prefer its seal and comfort) and without EQ.

Is there a way to deal with the peaks by using sort of paddings like felt etc. inside the grille?

The screwed up midrange is mostly due to pleather phase doubling. It unevens the sound signature. It's not a simple EQ fix, because the phase is off. The focus pads don't have that problem and neither do the velours.
 
The 12khz bump is something you will see on almost every headphone, and indeed almost every microphone. I do a lot of professional audio recording for ****s and giggles and even my studio condenser microphones like the Rode NT1a have a 10khz hump. It's there in most headphones and most microphones because it makes music kind of pop in a good way. The problem is the recording already has the emphasis, and the playback through a headphone which also emphasizes it doesn't help. This is one of the things people mean when they say the 400's reveal flaws in the recording. If the guy who mastered the track used tricks like 10khz boosting and lots of multiband compression, it's going to scratch your eardrums out on the 400's.
 
In general, ignore the measured and reported frequency response of a headphone. Your ears, your environment, your gear, all make subtle differences in perceived loudness. Your ears don't weigh every frequency of sound the same. We are insensitive to some frequencies, and over sensitive to others.
 
A very good trick to use for that perfect headphone sound, is to use a sine wave sweeper program like Sinegen and spend a little time sweeping the frequency up and down, listening for perceived bumps or dips. Write down the frequency, and whether it was too loud, or too quiet, then you will know how to configure an equalizer to flatten it out a bit. The best part is even if you have weird shaped ear drums, or have partial deafness, it doesn't matter, it calibrates a frequency response TO YOUR HEAD. Works really well especially with something like Equalizer APO.

 

[DDDamian]

  How high is the volume when you start to hear distortion?  Like rock concert level? or higher?  I rarely get even close to rock concert level, it gets painful, did enough damage to my ears going to many in my younger days, at this level I've never heard distortions with any of the Hifiman or Audeze headphones that I owned.

I would say approaching rock concert levels yes. Definitely bridging the loud to very-loud levels. Kinda when the Scotch tastes fine and that one song makes you crank it
 
The 650's let me do that with great clarity and without audible distortion well past the level those two planars do.