[Dramlin]

- Edited/Deleted. Going to do more research...

 

[ezduzit2500]

And my motivation to discuss this is to see if there is some definitive answer out there of will my xxxxx amp/phone/sound card power my xxxxx headphone without degrading the sound. Taking the Arya for example, it reaches 90db at 1khz with 1mW at 35ohm. Knowing the specs of an amplifier there should be some simple mathematical formula that should tell exactly how much power the amp is capable of giving the headphone, in order to determine if it meets the necessary headroom for spikes up to 95db or so. Despite my best attempts at searching I can't find any definitive answers. The general consensus for the Arya is that it takes an amp delivering greater than 500mW and less than 1500mW which is a fairly large range, where everything inbetween may power the headphones enough. Same question applies to the Ananda on if a smartphone can properly power it vs an amp, and if an amp is needed what's the minimum mW required to clear that headroom? Just seems like these questions should have a simple answer, but there doesn't seem to be any answers out there.

- Edited/Deleted. Going to do more research...

....should have a simple answer,.....I Agree that it should have a simple answer but remember these are only suggestions or guidelines, not concrete. The calculator may not have a provision for planar cans, only dynamics, which work differently and require more current than dynamics - since we're on the Ananda thread. I shoot for the most clean power that I can afford at a reasonable cost, generally doubling or so (if I can for a reasonable cost) the power that's simply 'required'. Plus if I get another planar down the road that requires more power then i don't have to get another more powerful amp again. That's just me though, others may feel or do differently.

 

[Toby Joe]

We were originally talking about member Pugzilla powering Ananda via a soundcard and how Ananda 'fell apart' at higher volumes. I suggested that it may be the amp in the soundcard running out of power (current). Correct that manufacturers tout 'Dynamic Headroom' or 'peak power' in their specs. I guess the more accurate term I should have used is simply "amplifier headroom": The ability of an amp to provide enough power (voltage, current, or both) to speakers without clipping.... That 'headroom' is used during musical peaks or at high volumes so as not to make the speaker sound compressed or distorted. Philosophy on why I try to use more power than what a spec sheet or calculator says, especially for planars like Ananda, etc. Hope this paints a clearer picture.

I know very little about sound cards, but maybe that’s just the way that soundcard is? It might be great at lower volumes, but “completely falls apart at higher volume.” This may just be a design such as .0002% THD at 1K at 100mw, but a full 20% THD at 1k at 200mw? This could be nothing more than a manufacture’s advertising and marketing campaign “tricking” people into thinking this card is .0002% THD at all volumes, but I doubt it is. Additionally, I agree with you that “headroom” may be an issue as the card may only be capable of 200mw RMS and Peak, so “overdriving” the card past 100mw could just be crushing the card as it’s not capable of handling that as it’s only good at 100mw max.

My guess would be that the sound card does not have high current or upscaling, so neither would apply. Further, my guess is the soundcard chip is getting super hot with overdriving and it should be clipping, but it’s a soundcard and it’s not.

I’m a little concerned about the headphones as this distortion melts voice coils in dynamics and I’m not sure what it would do to a planar?

 

[Ironcobra80]

Just wanted to chime in on my Anandas after 6 months with them and finally getting my new cables from periapat. Me being no where near a critical listener and struggling to understand what half of you are talking about. The type 8 cable first off build quality is very nice light years ahead of the original. Going back and forth between the new and old I 100 percent hear a difference with the new cable and my ears are untrained, Dove-Cymande the sound is so much fuller if thats the correct term. I bought these mainly for gaming and movies but find myself listening to music I normally would have never discovered because I believe they just bring quality made music to life using deezer and youtube music on a toneboard and atom amp. The comfort is also amazing I regularly play 10+ hour gaming sessions due to the new stay at home life and never even once notice for a second there on. Anyway just my two cents cant imagine ever needing anything more.

 

[ezduzit2500]

I know very little about sound cards, but maybe that’s just the way that soundcard is? It might be great at lower volumes, but “completely falls apart at higher volume.” This may just be a design such as .0002% THD at 1K at 100mw, but a full 20% THD at 1k at 200mw? This could be nothing more than a manufacture’s advertising and marketing campaign “tricking” people into thinking this card is .0002% THD at all volumes, but I doubt it is. Additionally, I agree with you that “headroom” may be an issue as the card may only be capable of 200mw RMS and Peak, so “overdriving” the card past 100mw could just be crushing the card as it’s not capable of handling that as it’s only good at 100mw max.

My guess would be that the sound card does not have high current or upscaling, so neither would apply. Further, my guess is the soundcard chip is getting super hot with overdriving and it should be clipping, but it’s a soundcard and it’s not.

I’m a little concerned about the headphones as this distortion melts voice coils in dynamics and I’m not sure what it would do to a planar?

Might make a planar sound really bad at the least but may not break it unless turned up entirely too loud by mistake. Many manufacturers also fudge specs, especially on amps.

 

[ezduzit2500]

Just wanted to chime in on my Anandas after 6 months with them and finally getting my new cables from periapat. Me being no where near a critical listener and struggling to understand what half of you are talking about. The type 8 cable first off build quality is very nice light years ahead of the original. Going back and forth between the new and old I 100 percent hear a difference with the new cable and my ears are untrained, Dove-Cymande the sound is so much fuller if thats the correct term. I bought these mainly for gaming and movies but find myself listening to music I normally would have never discovered because I believe they just bring quality made music to life using deezer and youtube music on a toneboard and atom amp. The comfort is also amazing I regularly play 10+ hour gaming sessions due to the new stay at home life and never even once notice for a second there on. Anyway just my two cents cant imagine ever needing anything more.

Nice. +1 on quality OFC or Silver cables making a difference vs the stock cables.

 

[ezduzit2500]

Just wanted to chime in on my Anandas after 6 months with them and finally getting my new cables from periapat. Me being no where near a critical listener and struggling to understand what half of you are talking about. The type 8 cable first off build quality is very nice light years ahead of the original. Going back and forth between the new and old I 100 percent hear a difference with the new cable and my ears are untrained, Dove-Cymande the sound is so much fuller if thats the correct term. I bought these mainly for gaming and movies but find myself listening to music I normally would have never discovered because I believe they just bring quality made music to life using deezer and youtube music on a toneboard and atom amp. The comfort is also amazing I regularly play 10+ hour gaming sessions due to the new stay at home life and never even once notice for a second there on. Anyway just my two cents cant imagine ever needing anything more.

Nice. +1 on quality OFC or Silver plated cables making a difference in sound quality over the stock cables or non-OFC, easily oxidized, low grade copper.

 

[Ironcobra80]

Nice. +1 on quality OFC or Silver cables making a difference vs the stock cables.

Being a union electrician I know firsthand what low grade copper does to high end equipment it can be disastrous! Its crazy where people try to save money.

 

[ezduzit2500]

Being a union electrician I know firsthand what low grade copper does to high end equipment it can be disastrous! Its crazy where people try to save money.

As a former Electrician and Electronics Technician (now retired) I hear ya. Better cables ensure that we get the best SQ from our gear and maximizes our investments, IMO.

 

[animefreeks]

The NeoMusicia cables has slightly tighter bass control but with less bass, and a slightly brighter treble. Mids sound recessed a bit. Not sure if this falls in line with other's experience.

Overall, sound is a tad bit colder and drier than the stock cables.

edit: There definitely is a difference between the two. The scale of differences are on the verge of night and day.

Stock: More slam, much more bass, at the cost of extension into the lower mids making tracks slightly muddy. Less treble, and as a result less resolution on highs such as cymbals. Mids overall fuller sound, slower decay which smooths out foot tapping (or jumping) genres such as EDM House.

NeoMusicia: Less slam, less bass, tigher bass control that does not muddy up the track(might be side effect of having less bass). Slightly recessed mids. Much faster decay, slightly more detail in the highs - especially the cymbals. Makes me wonder if the thinner cable is at its limits in terms of current and resistance and can't deliver the current which makes them bass anemic.

 

[bagwell359]

Headphone cables are a trip. It's very easy to favor a new cable you spend $150+ on. You want your purchase to be worth it, you want to find improvements to verify to your ego that you really are a smart discerning person, and if you are close to other audio enthusiasts and/or a dealer, that's a whole other reason to be jumped up.

Now I'm not going to say that I don't hear any differences because I do, about 5 days ago I posted like 8 comparisons somewhere here. But I've been through a lot - not finding hyper expensive cables better, finding new cables that I spent money on being equal and yes worse than stock. Those things will teach some objectivity.

If you have a spouse or roommate you can carry out A vs B testing pretty easily, a towel so you can't feel the wire through your shirt.
HFM has made the issue somewhat easy the past few years since the whole farking load of them (Arya and under), and I have a pile of them (HFMs).

One thing you have to bear in mind is that cables (any) are not in a strict order according to cost. I.E. a $65 cable might be worse that a $110 one in one setting, but not in another. Cables have impedance, capacitance, resistance - and potential issues with O2, strength of physical connection, and how much/what type/none insulation is being used. These can have an impact or not. A company like Cardas makes some extreme cables with very unusual (corner case) numbers on one or two of those electrical qualities. They are trying to create an (oh man!) cable that catches someones attention - purchase - success!

 

[ezduzit2500]

The NeoMusicia cables has slightly tighter bass control but with less bass, and a slightly brighter treble. Mids sound recessed a bit. Not sure if this falls in line with other's experience.

Overall, sound is a tad bit colder and drier than the stock cables.

edit: There definitely is a difference between the two. The scale of differences are on the verge of night and day.

Stock: More slam, much more bass, at the cost of extension into the lower mids making tracks slightly muddy. Less treble, and as a result less resolution on highs such as cymbals. Mids overall fuller sound, slower decay which smooths out foot tapping (or jumping) genres such as EDM House.

NeoMusicia: Less slam, less bass, tigher bass control that does not muddy up the track(might be side effect of having less bass). Slightly recessed mids. Much faster decay, slightly more detail in the highs - especially the cymbals. Makes me wonder if the thinner cable is at its limits in terms of current and resistance and can't deliver the current which makes them bass anemic.

To each their own. I've got the NeoMusicia cables also. I hear them as overall having tighter bass, clearer mids, and more detailed treble that allows more sound stage, the air in the room to be heard. I hear stock as less resolving, softer overall. Also could be amp or system synergy, what works for one may not work for another. Best way to test would be with the addition of an altogether different cable, A,B,X or A,B, vs control. Either way, not out much $$, and you have an extra cable if the stock one quits or if you've got another headphone set.

 

[Pugzilla]

Interesting article. Audioholics got five audiophiles to compare Monster 1000 speaker cables vs coat hangers in a blind test. No one could tell the difference, they couldn't even tell that they were just coat hangers.
https://gizmodo.com/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger-363154

 

[bagwell359]

Interesting article. Audioholics got five audiophiles to compare Monster 1000 speaker cables vs coat hangers in a blind test. No one could tell the difference, they couldn't even tell that they were just coat hangers.
https://gizmodo.com/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger-363154

Anyone can label themselves an audiophile. All it can take is possession of some equipment seen as "audiophile" and ones nose pointing upward matched by an attitude. 1/2 at least of high end customers fall into this category.

 

[Pugzilla]

Anyone can label themselves an audiophile. All it can take is possession of some equipment seen as "audiophile" and ones nose pointing upward matched by an attitude. 1/2 at least of high end customers fall into this category.

That's true, it's not a purely scientific study. I do think the onus is on expensive cable manufacturers to show that their products actually work though. If they were able to publish peer reviewed studies that demonstrated this then they could sell a lot more cables. Even if they do work, the sound quality is still limited by the weakest link. You would need to inspect and replace all the internal wiring in your chain including DAC, amp and the headphone itself.

I'm going off topic now. Higher end cables definitely look nice and are more durable. I've ordered the Neo musicia cables myself.