ezduzit2500
1000+ Head-Fier
Keep us posted on your progress please, Friday will be here soon. -E
Hifiman Ananda
- Thread starter SilverEars
- Start date
At the moment I'm running my Anandas off my PC's motherboard (has an ESS ESP9023P DAC and a 2 VRSM headphone amp). They get louder than I ever need and the sound quality is good to me, no distortion or background electronic noise. What improvements could I expect with a dedicated amp and DAC?
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Kammerat Rebekka
1000+ Head-Fier
Psychological ones
Amanda is specifically designed as an easy to drive planar. You can literally use your smartphone with her and get brilliant SQ.
I expected so, one of the reason I got the Ananda in the first place. My other headphone, Fidelio X2 is also very easy to drive. I want to avoid a bulky and expensive DAC/amp setup if possible.
Soundcard have around 500mW output at 25 ohm. It wasn't clipping. Clipping occurs at volume set to 80-90%. Problem is most likely insufficient current delivery and agility. It has no problem with voltage driven headphones like high impedance Beyerdynamics.
What happens is that soundstage completely squashes at high volumes. On paper my soundcard have 130 db ''dynamic headroom'' with Ananda (https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/) which should be more than enough in theory but it wasn't in practice. Not sure why it has more slam though. Maybe it's frequency measurements not flat. DSP is compeltely bypassed.
Dynamic Headroom is something I've really been trying to understand lately. It makes perfect sense that you can get a headphone to beyond loud levels with an amplifier, but lose out in certain frequencies if the energy required in those frequencies bumps into the max range of the amplifier. For example, you may get your amp to output 85db at 1khz at max volume, but a 60hz note may need more energy to get up to that same level, and your amp may crap out before that happens. So you end up with a very loud sound that isn't correct. It's common to have people ask if their amplifier is sufficient for a headphone, so I'm surprised there isn't a clear mathematical tool that gives a clear cut answer on minimum amplifier power for any given headphone. All the calculators I find give actual mW requirements for headphones, but those are calculations performed after power loss due to resistance. For example, that calculator in the post above gives the same info we already know, the Ananda's require 1 mW to get to it's rated 103db. But how much power is needed from the Amplifier before power loss to get to 1mW at the headphone? If I'm not mistaken we need a calculator where you can input the headphone sensitivity rating (103db per 1 mW here), the headphone resistance (25 ohm here), and if known the resistance of the amplifier. That should give us a mW requirement that the amplifier needs to output to reach a certain db headphone level, say 95-100db max here, to account for dynamic headroom at a constant listening level of 85db or so. Has anyone stumbled on that type of calculator in their travels?
ezduzit2500
1000+ Head-Fier
Improvements that I heard when driving with an outboard DAC and amp were: More bass, better dynamics, more detail, and wider soundstage. Basically the Ananda sounded simply better in most areas, especially bass, dynamics, and detail. If you already have a dac on your motherboard maybe then you only need an amp? I don't know the specs or capabilities of your sound card. Pardon my ignorance.
Good dynamic headroom read: https://www.audeze.com/blogs/technology-and-innovation/sensitivity-impedance-and-amplifier-power
Calculators are just there to give an idea. They are not super precise and perfect because let's say Ananda's spec is 103db/mw @25 ohm but the actual pair you got can have variances. Some amplifiers states their capabilities. THX 789 for example 1800mW into 32 ohm until 1% distortion. This link gives all the info: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/ Sorry if i misunderstood your post. For 130 db peaks Ananda requires 502mW, 3.54 volts RMS, 141.7 miliamps RMS. It should also need good agility, voltage and current swing. I'm no expert though.
Edit: Class A amps probably more preferred just because of the ''swing'' thing. They don't need to swing. They constantly run at full power. Asgard 3 might be a good amp for less sensitive headphones.
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ezduzit2500
1000+ Head-Fier
Sounds about right about insufficient current. Overall performance of planars will suffer with insufficient current. Bass and dynamics will be less, soundstage will be smaller, and instruments will smash together. More powerful amps will mostly not have a problem with insufficient current. That's why with planars I look to amps with above typical power vs just enough power. Magni 3+ gets Ananda loud and clear but Emo a-100 gives it loud and clear, and bass and dynamics aplenty.
Emo is beast.
ezduzit2500
1000+ Head-Fier
Haven't seen anything like that. Most of my experiences comes from full sized stereo systems where if there's not enough power it's really easy to tell, speakers just don't sound good when you turn up the volume. Also planar headphones, where I've under powered them. They just didn't sound like they were worth the money that I spent. When I then got a more powerful amp and went back and forth between the two amps, the differences were quite clear, pun intended. There are also many articles on dynamic headroom, seek knowledge from cradle to grave, my friend.
My SPC cable arrived for my Ananda and the results are good, but not as dynamic as the same SPC cable swap on my HEXv2. All songs are FLAC and I’m only using my tube amp and not my ss amp. I listened to my Ananda for a few hours with the HFM cable before I swapped to the SPC cable so I could hear the difference.
First, I had to cable swap back to the original HFM cable just to make sure I was correct as the sound is better on the SPC cable, but just not exploding with synergy like I experienced with my HEXv2.
Second, I think the best way for me to explain what I’m hearing is for me to set a grading scale with the Ananda and the HEXv2 being an “A” with the SPC cable and grading the HFM cable with the HEXv2 as an easy “F” and the HFM cable with the Ananda a “D.”
Third, the SPC cable on the Ananda provides pretty much what a simple cable swap from copper to SPC would expect: tighter and more dynamics, the boom in the bass is gone, the mids are actually better, and the high end is more and extended. More open and extended in the high end.
Fourth, I think the SPC cable again makes the HFM cable sound dull with no dynamics and the bass and mids uncontrolled on the HFM cable.
Fifth, I was worried about the mids being sucked out and a treble spike appearing, but luckily neither of these happened.
Sixth, another way for me to explain the difference on the Ananda with the SPC cable is a sound barrier was removed, like removing a cloth from between the speakers and my ears. However, with the HEXv2, the speakers were replaced with better speakers with the SPC cable.
In conclusion, I didn’t get synergy with the Ananda like I got with my HEXv2, but the sound is still better with the SPC cable. The Ananda does not sound like a completely different headphone like my HEXv2 does.
First, I had to cable swap back to the original HFM cable just to make sure I was correct as the sound is better on the SPC cable, but just not exploding with synergy like I experienced with my HEXv2.
Second, I think the best way for me to explain what I’m hearing is for me to set a grading scale with the Ananda and the HEXv2 being an “A” with the SPC cable and grading the HFM cable with the HEXv2 as an easy “F” and the HFM cable with the Ananda a “D.”
Third, the SPC cable on the Ananda provides pretty much what a simple cable swap from copper to SPC would expect: tighter and more dynamics, the boom in the bass is gone, the mids are actually better, and the high end is more and extended. More open and extended in the high end.
Fourth, I think the SPC cable again makes the HFM cable sound dull with no dynamics and the bass and mids uncontrolled on the HFM cable.
Fifth, I was worried about the mids being sucked out and a treble spike appearing, but luckily neither of these happened.
Sixth, another way for me to explain the difference on the Ananda with the SPC cable is a sound barrier was removed, like removing a cloth from between the speakers and my ears. However, with the HEXv2, the speakers were replaced with better speakers with the SPC cable.
In conclusion, I didn’t get synergy with the Ananda like I got with my HEXv2, but the sound is still better with the SPC cable. The Ananda does not sound like a completely different headphone like my HEXv2 does.
I’m coming in late, but I thought “Dynamic Headroom” was, in an amp: 50 Watts RMS, or 100 Watts Peak; and in speakers, the same thing: 50 Watts RMS, or 100 Watts Peak.
Are you both talking about High Current Amps and Slew Rate?
ezduzit2500
1000+ Head-Fier
Yup, I believe that I'm future proofed for a while as far as amps are concerned. I still play around with upstream gear such as preamps, tubes, and such. I bought the a-100 used from a person near me for a really good price, I still have to maintain a budget. It's not ultra high end but as good as many others, very clean and dynamic for a speaker amp. I have to use a preamp to reduce the volume, it's very easy to blow a set of cans or your ears. I get good use out of it in a desktop setting with speakers also. It's a 50 watt swiss knife, haha
ezduzit2500
1000+ Head-Fier
We were originally talking about member Pugzilla powering Ananda via a soundcard and how Ananda 'fell apart' at higher volumes. I suggested that it may be the amp in the soundcard running out of power (current). Correct that manufacturers tout 'Dynamic Headroom' or 'peak power' in their specs. I guess the more accurate term I should have used is simply "amplifier headroom": The ability of an amp to provide enough power (voltage, current, or both) to speakers without clipping.... That 'headroom' is used during musical peaks or at high volumes so as not to make the speaker sound compressed or distorted. Philosophy on why I try to use more power than what a spec sheet or calculator says, especially for planars like Ananda, etc. Hope this paints a clearer picture.
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