[Philski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverfi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sir, where did you got the AMP3 pro V2 for camparing?????? There is no such a model!!!!

I think he meant AMP3 pro.2, which is very much an existing model (unless my eyes are playing odd tricks on me, and I'm looking at an illusion).

 

[BrahmaBull9813]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverfi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I have done the comparation between these players by myself days ago, and have taken the pictures of them. I am sure I have my conclusion and have writen the review. But I don't want to post it now. Because I thought Hifiman is a good player to some listeners if there is no comparation with other decent DAPs. As the previous post stated that I do hope Hifiman will be the best DAP in the market. This is my attitude to a player. if it is really perfect, it don't need me to have my additional praises, if it is just so so, it is also don't need me to criticize. For I am not the only one have tested Hifiman. I aways have good wishs to any players especially the maker has try their best on it. The harsh picky words or comments to a new player will do nothing to improve the product. if there are shortcomings, I would like to keep quiet. I would like to think the maker really want to make it better. Any way, I really respect the creative concept of DAP/DAC/AMP hybride of HIFIMAN. This contribution to the DAPs industry is enough to trade off many disadvantages. This is the reasons why I don't want to publish my review. I suppose,this is also the reason that why there is still no detail reviews of HIFIMAN by other owners. To be frankly, I will reserve my conclusions on judeging the comparation between the 3 players of HIFIMAN, MR-1 and AMP3. which is really very different from your subjective conclusion.--------Maybe the third party will be fair to release the really answer.

If your opinion does justice to each player in all its aspects, then post it.

If you're mad that your favorite player didn't get enough justice, which seems to be the AMP3 by the connotation of your posts, then please don't post it (at least not until others have given their fair reviews of the player). A biased based opinion isn't one needed.

Either way, my greatest impression of the player is that 95% of its cost goes towards the audio capabilities (the body, screen, screen glass, and buttons being another case). That's nothing I've ever, ever seen done on the portable audio market.

Yeah, you might think iPod (or Archos -- as my dad had one of the earliest brick players), but that wasn't dedicated to sound quality. It would've jumped the gun to what it is now straightaway had the technology been readily available (even though it somehow started a revolution).

The HiFiMan HM-801 dedicates most all of its cost to reproducing high-end audio on the go. Even though it's always easy to throw a video gimmick in here, and a visual gimmick there to hook the customer. My point, although my argument went to waste from Head-Direct's reply, was that we need an honest player out there to the core.

The HM-801 delivers that bar-none. The fact that it's so expensive is made up to me by the fact that all that expense goes towards its audio playing capabilities. It's an honest and loyal -- companion (as a portable audio player). What more can you ask for?

 

[SiBurning]

I can't believe people are complaining there aren't enough reviews. I see plenty. We're amateurs here and write what we want out of love. There's never been a lot of thorough 4 page reviews here. Maybe the problem is how it's all mixed up in different threads and mixed in with details of ordering and shipping the product. I originally refused to copy my review here because the thread seemed hopeless, and it's not right to double post, but I'll forgive myself if it helps people.

Here's the sum of my impressions so far. I edited this first post a bit, but only to get rid of some comments where I'm questioning how to write a more in depth review. You'll see from what's left that I have a lot of questions about the right way to do it. I left the original quotes in place just for reference.
Quote:

Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm listening through my Portaphile. There's not a single long-life, low power, portable amplifier I like as much as the higher power ones. and the amp module in the HiFiMan is no exception. The Portaphile is my favorite for general use. It gives the dynamics that are missing from any lightweight amp, and the Portaphile's very clean, with a quiet background, and tight bass control. The HiFiMan's amp module does have one thing over the others--it's better tuned for this rig. Still, it gets a bit congested with hard to drive cans, lacks some dynamics, and only drives my cans to moderate levels when turned all the way up. In a word... Sweet! This rig blows away anything I've heard portable, except that one rig that someone brought to a NY meet... the one that was hooked up to two car batteries. The HiFiMan resolves quite a bit, which leads me to listen more intently, which demands more attention and energy. At least from me. And that's where my review stuffs me. I've actually found new respect for some of my older rigs precisely because they're less... ahem... demanding. Also, the HiFiMan *is* a first generation product, not a mature product from a mature product line. While it excels in some areas, the sound isn't as "finished" or balanced as some other products--regardless of whether the others are above or below it in terms of fidelity. This is ultimately what makes the Benchmark DAC sound better even though the HiFiMan outperforms it in some things. (Well, okay, it's probably also to do with its dedicated power.) Back to those older rigs, while they don't do anything as well as the HiFiMan, there's a certain maturity or balance to them that makes them enjoyable, if at a lower level of fidelity. Meanwhile, here are my first impressions from the first hour with them. I think it's still valid. Quote: Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just got mine in the mail an hour ago. It needs time to break in, and I've only listened for an hour, but... Detailed, somewhat sweet yet clinical, something up with the sound-stage... Is that from not being broken in? Lemme check... Plugged into my home stereo through the line out... Oh!!!!!! Holy ****! Instrument separation is amazing--excellent tonality without blending instrument timbres together. 3D images... I can hear the violinists turning their instruments. Tonally, it blooms softly in the lower midrange, but is dry above while not straying too far from an "open" resonance. I don't have the headphones to pull off this kind of soundstage, and my etys are broken. This thing is gonna drive some people crazy, the way a $500 CD player does. It does some things very well, so you expect it to get everything right. But it just doesn't work like that in this price range. That's all for now. I'm gonna go listen some more. Will be back in a few weeks after I break it in. Since then, they've been running continuously, about 100 hours so far, plugged into the power line, driving my headphones, with the lineout going to my stereo. Today, I pulled it out and started listening portably. That's how I got to compare against other DACs and test the HiFiMan with different amps. I've already mentioned how I prefer it driving my Portaphile. To compare a little more to the Benchmark (only because that's what I have). The HiFiMan brings more detail out of a quieter background. I'm not really sure, though, whether this is actual detail or a bit of hardness in the HiFiMan's sound signature. Since then I've convinced myself there's definitely more detail and it's cleaner. As I've mentioned, the Benchmark has a more balanced, mature sound, and one place it shows is in a bit of hardness in the upper midrange or lower treble of the HiFiMan. It also shows in less control in the bass. I think the sweet spot for the HiFiMan is in the midrange. Also, while the HiFiMan has a quieter background, that doesn't necessarily translate into a cleaner sound. Guitar accents, for example, come off cleaner on the Benchmark. They're not really--I think there's more distortion in the Benchmark, but somehow the Benchmark manages to finesse a dirtier music a little better. Finally, both have a a slight veil over the music. While it's more noticeable overall in the Benchmark, the HiFiMan has a more subtle area that may be digital noise or I don't know what, but there's something in the background somewhere. If there's one area where the Benchmark clearly leads, it's in tonal presentation. Somehow, the Benchmark manages to compenstate for a lesser DAC and ultimately sound more musical in a holistic way. All of this holds up whether running them through the home system or cans, regardless of the portable amp driving the cans off the HiFiMan. It's a hard comparison for a portable all-in-one unit to go against a line powered DAC+Amp that runs about double the price, but the HiFiMan holds up remarkably well. Anyway, I ordered a new pair of Etymotic er4s. Those are relatively easy to drive. I'll have to see how well the amp holds up, but my experience says I'll still want an outboard amp that needs changing (the batteries) every two hours. (For those that don't know me, I used to carry a 4.4 lb. rig someone dubbed the unibomber rig because of all the exposed wiring between all the components.) Will post more when I can get past the lecture and actualy talk about the sound.

Someone asked how I did the comparison

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks. I don't want to go into too much depth just yet. I still don't consider the HiFiMan burned in. It's been on continuously for about 100 hours connected to headphones as well as the lineout going to my stereo. It also wasn't intended to be the review, just some preliminary thoughts. 1. DAC-1 USB fed through coax from an Oppo DV981HD. 2. It would be fair to call my comparison between the Benchmark and HiFiMan an overall impression which doesn't really change in any of the configurations. That's why I didn't bother to go into more detail. I'll correct that here. For the Benchmark I used the CDs. For the other sources, I used FLAC taken from the same CDs. These same FLAC files exist on the HiFiMan and the iRiver. After my first hour or so of listening, I plugged the HiFiMan's lineout into my stereo system and also plugged in my headphones. For the next three days, nearly all of my listening was through my stereo speakers. These comparisons were between the Benchmark's lineout and the HiFiMan's lineout going to different inputs of my Creek 5350 SE connected to a pair of Epos M5 and Epos M subwoofer. The subwoofer was powered from the amplifier, not through the subwoofer amp. The Benckmark is connected to the Creek using 3' interconnects from Signal Cable. The HiFiMan is connected to the Creek using a GC Mini from Kimber cable--a stereo RCA to mini interconnet. The M5 speakers are connected using ancient 10 ga pure copper speaker wire. The subwoofer is connected to the B channel of the Creek through 15' speaker cables from Signal Cable. I don't know the brand of coax cable. This constitutes one part of the comparison--lineouts to speakers. Yesterday, I unplugged the HiFiMan from the stereo, and did not listen to speakers at all. These comparisons used the headphone out of the DAC-1. For the HiFiMan, I listened to the headphone out or the lineout going to three portable amps: CoreSound's HeadLine, HeadRoom's 1995 (not upgraded) MicroAmp, and the original Portaphile V2^2 maxxed. I explained why I used outboard amplifiers in addition to the built-in amp. While the (four) amplifiers all sound different, they're consistent enough that the comparison against the benchmark would be the same regardless. If you prefer, it's an average. The cables used for this are a cheap optical cable, the Kimber Cable GC Mini to RCA, and an ALO Audio Jumbo Cryo X Silver Mini to Mini. This constitutes a second part of the comparison--headphone outputs, except here I also used outboard amps for the HiFiMan. Going beyond what you asked... At some point, I stopped comparing against the Benchmark and concentrated on the portable amplifiers. For this, I plugged the lineout of the HiFiMan to the three portable amplifiers mentioned above, and also listened to the HiFiMan's headphone output. Just to keep things honest, I also plugged my iRiver HP140 into a 2006 HeadRoom MicroDAC and the HeadLine to have some other sources as a basis. This means I had three DACs as sources going to three amplifiers, plus the HiFiMan straight. (The HeadLine has a DAC and amp, and can be plugged in as pretty much anything.) This is outside the scope of what I wrote about, and is more about how well the HiFiMan supports different portable amplifiers. That's a different can of worms.

 

[foreverfi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philski /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think he meant AMP3 pro.2, which is very much an existing model (unless my eyes are playing odd tricks on me, and I'm looking at an illusion).

Oh, I see now. it is GreenLeo made a wrong imagine. Thanks.

 

[foreverfi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull9813 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your opinion does justice to each player in all its aspects, then post it. If you're mad that your favorite player didn't get enough justice, which seems to be the AMP3 by the connotation of your posts, then please don't post it (at least not until others have given their fair reviews of the player). A biased based opinion isn't one needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull9813 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Gentleman, Do be so crude, there is no mad man. Let talk about the truth. I don't want to discuss anything to a gentleman with "mad" attitude.

I only need to have one question to you between HIFIMAN and MR -1 comparation, the highs of HIFIMAN and MR-1, which one is better? let alone with AMP3.

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by electropop /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think "musicality" simply means the ability to play notes clearly. Very few people comment on the pitch accuracy. No matter how transparent, how dynamic, if I struggle to hear some notes in an otherwise soothing but complex piece, whether brass or bass, I get uneasy. There's a bit of that effect with the HM801+srh840, though the 840s really are ok in this sense. Well, anyway, that is "musicality" the way I see it, and is more important than any other hifi factor to me.

If I understand you correctly--or maybe if we agree about something--I'd say this comes down to sound signature (a flat or natural sounding response--or not) and harmonic distortion. In practice, it's also dynamics because you need good dynamics and current handling to control a transducer. Here's how I hear it. A bad sound signature can emphasize one part of the spectrum, swamping another. Other kinds of distortion do exactly the same thing. It changes the overtones in a way that makes it hard to distinguish individual instruments. Poor dynamics cause similar distortion in the speakers. Things end up sounding cramped or stuffy, and instruments blend together to where I can't distinguish them. While careful orchestration can blend instruments remarkably well, it's pretty rare where this happens completely. Some people refer to this effect, regardless of the cause, as being musical.

Are you saying you get this just with the one can?

I've mentioned how I don't care for any long life amp, HiFiMan's built-in amp included. None of them have the dynamics and current handling to present the information I care about properly. Not all of the amps even bother aiming for what I like. I try to be careful to mention my bias here because I know of several low power type amps people like a whole lot that I don't care for, and if I write something, it's for their benefit, not mine, so they need to understand what I'm trying to say. When I say stuffy, they need to understand that I mean musical.

Yes, I find some things sound "musical" with the HiFiMan's built-in amp. I don't find that at all using the right external amp for those cans.

The reason I'm going into all this is I'm trying to figure out how to communicate better to different people that have different ways of expressing things. Although, it's not the proper forum for this. Maybe we can continue this in another forum? But I'm not sure which.

 

[PiSkyHiFi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif PS. I head a T51 briefly and wasn't impressed. Would love to compare the 801 with the D50 but I'm not going to buy the D50 for that. Any head-fiers?

Re: Teclast T51

Which Amp/s did you plug it into to test it ?

This device performed well for me when Amped, but I do not have access to a range of amps to try, only my Total Bithead.

My impression is that it it produces crystal clear sound, but the onboard amp is very dry sounding initally - its actually warming up a little now but I would put it way behind the Total Bitheads amp, which isn't really that special (HiFIMan - league of its own). This T51 is all about the high end Wolsen DACs, Burr Brown OP Amps, portablility and value.

When Amped, I would describe as it one of the best sources I've heard, bass is strong, well defined and the trebles are relaxed and clear - I am hearing more details. Bass is in no way muddy, but the onboard phillips amp does not sound very musical compared to the Total Bitheads.

You have access to some of the best equipment, I wouldn't expect this device to perform as well as a product 5 times its price, but perhaps you could give your impression of its value as a portable rig compared to both HiFiMan and iPod.

 

[GreenLeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philski /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think he meant AMP3 pro.2, which is very much an existing model (unless my eyes are playing odd tricks on me, and I'm looking at an illusion).

Thanks for pointing that out.

Apparently the formal name could be Amp3 Pro2 as indicated in the first post of

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f149/a...studio-441944/

and I can see that some headfiers refer it as AMP3-Pro.2 as shown in the #736 reply.

When the Amp3 Pro came out, I knew that it's the version 1 that hissed heavily according to the headfiers impressions and I also knew that a new version is coming. Hence I thought its named V2. Also when I went into the audio shop asking for the Amp3 Pro V2, the shopkeeper did stressed that the new version has been given to me for trying.

I'm sorry for any mis-info caused.

 

[GreenLeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiSkyHiFi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Re: Teclast T51 Which Amp/s did you plug it into to test it ? This device performed well for me when Amped, but I do not have access to a range of amps to try, only my Total Bithead. My impression is that it it produces crystal clear sound, but the onboard amp is very dry sounding initally - its actually warming up a little now but I would put it way behind the Total Bitheads amp, which isn't really that special (HiFIMan - league of its own). This T51 is all about the high end Wolsen DACs, Burr Brown OP Amps, portablility and value. When Amped, I would describe as it one of the best sources I've heard, bass is strong, well defined and the trebles are relaxed and clear - I am hearing more details. Bass is in no way muddy, but the onboard phillips amp does not sound very musical compared to the Total Bitheads. You have access to some of the best equipment, I wouldn't expect this device to perform as well as a product 5 times its price, but perhaps you could give your impression of its value as a portable rig compared to both HiFiMan and iPod.

I used the onboard amp for the T51. The T51 is gone and I can't access it again.

In my brief comparison posted, I pointed out that I took the devices as a all-in-one DAP rather than a portable DAC. Hence no external amp had been used for comparison. I can tell you that the line out of the 801 is excellent but I haven't compared the line out of the others hence I did not say anything on this. My best gear is the ES3X and the Lisa but ES3X still hisses with the Lisa. So it's really hard to compare them fairly. Anyway to compare the DACs of them means a bigger project that I have no intention to do right now.

I did drop out the cost factor intentionally in that post as what I concern was the SQ, the battery life, ... and my the order of perconcerns were clearly stated in the post as well. Anyone whose concerns with the cost or different weighting will know that my comparison will not be that relevant to them and may look elsewhere. The 801 and the MR-1 are aiming for a niche market, hence I felt that leaving the cost factor untouched could still serve a purpose. I also believe that the prices of the T51 and the Amp3 Pro2 have rendered them excellent devices in that category as well.

The 801 is not perfect. I enjoyed the 801 lineout to D10 more than its onboard amp. When I posted that impression at less than 10 hours after I used the 801 I was questioned by other headfiers. Anyway, I wrote down what I heard. The on board amp did opened up later but then my D10 was with my friend. D10 should be back in Jan 2010. I would love to do a comparison then if I've time.

Also I do think 801 needs a reset button or a reset procedure (just like the IPod) because it hangs occasionally. However, I only use the 801 to listen to the files in the SD or the onboard flash, this minor hiccups can be easily lived up with.

 

[BrahmaBull9813]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverfi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gentleman, Do be so crude, there is no mad man. Let talk about the truth. I don't want to discuss anything to a gentleman with "mad" attitude. I only need to have one question to you between HIFIMAN and MR -1 comparation, the highs of HIFIMAN and MR-1, which one is better? let alone with AMP3.

It's cool how you got that to rhyme.

If you read back your post, it should seem like you were outraged that GreenLeo decided to put the HiFiMan HM-801 on a pedestal (although, probably rightfully so).

The HiFiMan HM-801 seems to be the newest product of all. Mr. Fang Bian has been to many conventions (See Here) and I'm certain he's been through those players (although not definite).

Also, the HiFiMan HM-801, although it's young, has already gained legendary notoriety amongst the audiophiles here. So it should be credible.

Let me bring it down to a tee. I don't own the player (not yet), but the vibe I get when I research about it is unbearably strong (in a positive way).

If you really like those other players, then that's fine. The HM-801 isn't challenging them, but doing its own thing and being damn good at it. The choice to compare is up to those who want to.

Your ears distinguish what you like best. Although, I presume that we all have characteristically similar hearing; I would say that our experiences lead us to different perspectives even in the realm of sonic pleasures.

I also see that you have the HM-801. I don't understand the resentment you took in place when you read that GreenLeo didn't like the AMP3 as much as the HiFiMan HM-801. Shouldn't your impression already have been established? Moreover, isn't sound quality the most important to you (even if the AMP3 has 100 hours of battery life in comparison to the 7-9 of the HM-801).

 

[testrichard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by electropop /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'm imagining the HM801 to burn in as well ... Might really be my ears or my phones burning in even more. I don't know what you mean by "good bass" and I haven't listened to many IEMs to make a statement unfortunately. I have Grado 325i's.. I'll try them out later to let you know. They can be fun phones, but I like my AD2000s and 840s much more. I think Edition 9 would blow you away. That's actually the fact why I hated the phones more than ibuds. It literally felt my ears were being stuffed with hairballs. Eugh

grado 325 seems to getting very good feedback as C/P invesetment

Ed9 is also priced me out lol for the similar price i might as well get HD800

while i m unsure if the improvement between Ultrasone 900 and Ed9 warrant the price jump but that just me

 

[testrichard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif The HiFiMan resolves quite a bit, which leads me to listen more intently, which demands more attention and energy. At least from me. And that's where my review stuffs me. I've actually found new respect for some of my older rigs precisely because they're less... ahem... demanding[/B]

agree~i brought 801 to gym work out this sat and it doesnt hype me into my zone

my old w950i simply works better and reason being like you said, its very clear that 801 can be too detail~ for the same club and techno kind of song i used to listen on my w950i to hype me into zone 801 turn out makes me paying too much attention to the details ~

i m not saying 801 isnt good or couldnt make me dance or go wild, but while working out and weight lifting i have to focus and communicate to my body and 801 divide my attention too much. strange way to find the short fall of 801

 

[testrichard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also I do think 801 needs a reset button or a reset procedure (just like the IPod) because it hangs occasionally. However, I only use the 801 to listen to the files in the SD or the onboard flash, this minor hiccups can be easily lived up with.

there is hope perhaps, may be your firmware update can solve it as mine only hang once~ which is when i unplug the power while playing music, since then i always power off before unplug charger

ver 0.09 12-01

does any one able to operate 801 without battery installed ?

 

[testrichard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull9813 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, the HiFiMan HM-801, although it's young, has already gained legendary notoriety amongst the audiophiles here. So it should be credible.

i dont find that a good thing actually,i mean all the hype around. to be honest i think that could drive things to other way around and i mean that could easily destroy a young company when the hype/fame comes too quick and strong

for example i m eager to test out RE0(waiting for the shipment) after reading all the positive review. but then i wonder how many of poster really heard it? reason being i realize at one stage i myself chip in and wrote about it(like answering others question as what it might song like ER4P etc) while i never own one..... its a common mistake when the hype gets so high.

it can turn back against you when your expectation turn into disappointment.

i m very positive about head-direct's product at this stage, but i like to stay true and not being a blind follower.so i will only command on RE0 if i actually hear it.so far i can tell you my 801 is worth the wait and every penny

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I understand you correctly--or maybe if we agree about something--I'd say this comes down to sound signature (a flat or natural sounding response--or not) and harmonic distortion. In practice, it's also dynamics because you need good dynamics and current handling to control a transducer. Here's how I hear it. A bad sound signature can emphasize one part of the spectrum, swamping another. Other kinds of distortion do exactly the same thing. It changes the overtones in a way that makes it hard to distinguish individual instruments. Poor dynamics cause similar distortion in the speakers. Things end up sounding cramped or stuffy, and instruments blend together to where I can't distinguish them. While careful orchestration can blend instruments remarkably well, it's pretty rare where this happens completely. Some people refer to this effect, regardless of the cause, as being musical. Are you saying you get this just with the one can? I've mentioned how I don't care for any long life amp, HiFiMan's built-in amp included. None of them have the dynamics and current handling to present the information I care about properly. Not all of the amps even bother aiming for what I like. I try to be careful to mention my bias here because I know of several low power type amps people like a whole lot that I don't care for, and if I write something, it's for their benefit, not mine, so they need to understand what I'm trying to say. When I say stuffy, they need to understand that I mean musical. Yes, I find some things sound "musical" with the HiFiMan's built-in amp. I don't find that at all using the right external amp for those cans. The reason I'm going into all this is I'm trying to figure out how to communicate better to different people that have different ways of expressing things. Although, it's not the proper forum for this. Maybe we can continue this in another forum? But I'm not sure which.

A perfectly valid initiative for a discussion and I will clarify my view as well

Very much on the contrary to stuffy, colored and other terms you used I see "musicality". It's rather simple really: I only mean notes and pitch accuracy. Usually if you have a flat frequency response, it helps, since any parts of the spectrum won't jump up and steal the attention. I actually like a system to be quite unprovocative.
Sound signature doesn't correlate with musicality. This is simply what I mean: (I found this very simplistically beautiful picture to demonstrate)

(Definitely not propaganda here, although I have purchased Linn-equipment myself..

)

So, instead of listening to sound characteristics and head-stage, one might listen to this factor. To me, this was for a long time sort of a "goes without saying" kind of thing, until I listened to really "musical" sets.. With this kind of equipment you can hear melodies and notes throughout the audio spectrum, and it makes the music reproduction so much more natural.

My point kinda is that I think that people use the word "musical" way too vaguely. If something is "tapping your toes" or the bass is not natural but FUN, it's not musical, I think. There should be individual terms for these forms of sensations..

Do I make sense? We could start a thread concerning this. I feel like a hijacker..

Oh, and hooray 801, it makes my day.