[Precogvision]

Sure. Very good we a variety to chose from and personal preference. That is not what I'm criticizing about his review.
As a reviewer he should use a more "neutral" language and not use his personal opinion to talk something down and use negative connoated verbiage in that way.

Is he? Reminds me of journalists who do the same.
Some things are just way way off, like the "bang for your buck” , the "imaging performance", the "speed", that I think he is simply lying or doing it on purpose.

Objective reviewing is an oxymoron. Likewise, it’s akin to using neutral language in a review...it’s a cop-out. People don’t read reviews so they can understand it from a manufacturers’ perspective. We read reviews so that we can understand it from someone like ourself. That’s also why you should be wary of reviews that are all “sunshine and daisies” for lack of a better phrase.

You certainly don’t have to identify with his review, but that doesn’t mean you should blatantly discredit it. He’s simply offering a perspective that hasn’t been given yet. So if you don’t agree with it: Move on. Crying about it projects insecurity, and if the review detracts from your enjoyment of said headphone, then perhaps said headphone wasn’t truly so good after all.

I don’t mean to offend (although I’m sure I will), but to outsiders who’ve just entered this hobby it looks ridiculous and screams of gate keeping/cognitive dissonance.

 

[kid vic]

Did crinacle got paid to write a somewhat biased and criticizing review?
Or he ususally talks something down like that for various (I assume subjective) reasons?

This choice of words is so damn negative ...
"nitpicks"a bout the engineers making the heddphone sounding the way they intended: balanced (fun) and neutral.

The 6k recession is in reality not there, it is just measurement; he could have mentioned that.

"In terms of resolving ability and overall speed, the HEDDphone is not quite up there with the likes of Stax or even the HD800"
Sure, the hd 800 got faster transient response. No.

"so I’d say that the HEDDphone’s bass exists in the limbo of “worse than the average DD, but better than the worst DDs”. "
"Worse" - so the very well mixture of the base, a mix between planar, dynamics and a bit off electrostats, is now labeled "bad".
The mixture so many of the listeners like so much.

"The imaging performance of the HEDDphone is markedly worse compared to top-tier threats such as the HD800 or the ADX5000 "
WHAT the hell did this guy smoked?

"Overall, I don’t think the HEDDphone is going to beat established greats in technical ability but I don’t think anyone would call it unresolving or slow."

"While it may not be something that’s “bang for your buck” ".
The best bang for your buck in the enthusiast ($ 1,5/2k +) and luxury ($ 3k+) price range is not a bang for a back for him.

Is there some secret agenda going right now, as seen in the last pages writing more negatively about it?

Why is it that every time someone writes a review expressing a moderately negative opinion people assume that they are getting paid off?
The cycle of hype train to hater parade on to balanced opinion happens on almost every single headphone page here. Crinacle was overall positive enough to give it an A ranking and put it amongst the realm of established players like the Arya, Clear and ADX5000.

He gave it an A. How is that a negative?

+1

Objective reviewing is an oxymoron. Likewise, it’s akin to using neutral language in a review...it’s a cop-out. People don’t read reviews so they can understand it from a manufacturers’ perspective. We read reviews so that we can understand it from someone like ourself. That’s also why you should be wary of reviews that are all “sunshine and daisies” for lack of a better phrase.

You certainly don’t have to identify with his review, but that doesn’t mean you should blatantly discredit it. He’s simply offering a perspective that hasn’t been given yet. So if you don’t agree with it: Move on. Crying about it projects insecurity, and if the review detracts from your enjoyment of said headphone, then perhaps said headphone wasn’t truly so good after all.

I don’t mean to offend (although I’m sure I will), but to outsiders who’ve just entered this hobby it looks ridiculous and screams of gate keeping/cognitive dissonance.

100%
The review itself was fair, talked about issues he found in the measurements and in the overall signature while acknowledge that it was the first attempt at this technologies implementation. People need to realize that this is like the original Hifiman HE4. A company building on an idea they know they can do and trying to iron out the kinks; there should be no surprises that its not perfect or perfectly loved.

 

[Beagle]

I don't understand being 'paid off' to write a bad review. A glowing sure, but a bad one?

I also don't understand reviews that compare planars with headphones that let the upper mid breathe and shine. It's like comparing a hammock to a roller coaster.

 

[jaaibananzu]

@Precogvision
That is an accurate description of some of the reasons one reads reviews etc

You're pointing out the "extreme-thing" - both extremum. I'm not one of the hype trainers or the haters and most of the listeners of this heddphone or reviewing it by commenting it etc. aren't either.
Even if it is true this is happening a lot here (it is) and it should be avoided, it is a manipulative argumentation you and some here are pulling, with that kind of generalization,
dividing some of the listeners here into this extremum, hype trainer and hater section. Very much unjust.
"Crying about it projects insecurity" that was unnecessary too

It is mainly probability when assessing by reading through others reviews (comments, descriptions, comparisons etc.).
When out of 10000 x comments the descriptions were mostly consistent, being it positive/negative about x characterstic, and someone writes smt. as I mentioned in #1,969, which isn't simply negative opinion, then I'm wary of it.
If you still see everything critic he wrote simply as negative opinion, well your choice, I exactly described what I see, unjust and wrong with it.
I mostly do not need assessing by reading comments, since I listened to some of the headphones myself. And I had didn't had months between listening session, so it isn't from memory either and no need trying to guess how something sounds.

Back to the ".. overall speed, the HEDDphone is not quite up there with the likes of Stax or even the HD800"
That is plainly wrong from a technical standpoint, as dynamic driver is the technology with slower response compared to planars, electrostats and now the atm transducer. The response matches the signal slower and less accurate with dynamic drivers.
Dynamic don't have a flat impedance, the coil isn't printed and spread all over diaphragm. Resisting the current and less control over the diaphragm's movement.
The inertia is higher with dynamic technology, more mass, less acceleration, more vibration, less fast and accurate transient response.

"All of them feature piston-like diaphragms that move the air in a 1:1 ratio so that the diaphragm velocity equals the air velocity. Whether we talk about electrostatic and magnetostatic speakers, ribbons, voice coil based dome and cone speakers or even a Blatthaller design – they all follow this particular design approach." - quote from hedd audio.
The atm did overcome this and queezes the air out in a 4:1 ratio (air flow velocity to diaphragm velocity).
That's basiscally what everyone has heard and described when listening to the heddphone, resulting in how overall fast it plays, the very accurate transients, very fast attack and decay, very high transducer resolution and perceived detail, transparency.
It is not even biased or unjust negative - far from neutral - reviewing with this specific statement, it is just wrong.

I also don't understand reviews that compare planars with headphones that let the upper mid breathe and shine. It's like comparing a hammock to a roller coaster.

Sometime you like both
That's why personally think it is good to compare different technologies, even different price brackets. But what I dislike it this unjust negative way crinacle did it.
What comes next: him saying electrostatic bass is bad, just because it does not have the same chracteristics as dynamic or planars? Not slamming as hard or as boomy (which is excessive, thus should be seen as negative. But logic ...).

 

[paradoxper]

TL;DR. Please shut up.

Stop trying so hard to discount the review. Again reverting back to use of language. You didn't like it : Move on.

And do you even actually care? Have your assessments and thoughts ever lined with his to establish some foundational basis. I surmise not.

 

[jaaibananzu]

If your ego is shaken that hard right now and you're emotionally that upset, can't handle what others say, thus leading to such unnecessary derogatory comments "TL;DR. Please shut up.", then please shut up and move on yourself. You clearly have not understood what a forum is about - so move on.
Using manipulative argumentation and pretending that it is simply this I wrote and care about "discount the review" and wrongly sump up what I wrote about the language ... low rhetorics.
Not learned how to properly argue and behave in shool?
You already got my negative attention back about the timbre discussion, so I ignored you now.

 

[paradoxper]

If your ego is shaken that hard right now and you're emotionally that upset, can't handle what others say, thus leading to such unnecessary derogatory comments "TL;DR. Please shut up.", then please shut up and move on yourself. You clearly have not understood what a forum is about - so move on.
Using manipulative argumentation and pretending that it is simply this I wrote and care about "discount the review" and wrongly sump up what I wrote about the language ... low rhetorics.
Not learned how to properly argue and behave in shool?
You already got my negative attention back about the timbre discussion, so I ignored you now.

Don't take words and use of language so deeply.

Your feelings on his wrong use of language and assessment are noted. I found nothing wrong with his review.

His review also resonated 0% with me. I've never established any shared reference so I could understand where he was coming from.

Shrugs.

 

[mr.karmalicious]

@Precogvision
That is an accurate description of some of the reasons one reads reviews etc

You're pointing out the "extreme-thing" - both extremum. I'm not one of the hype trainers or the haters and most of the listeners of this heddphone or reviewing it by commenting it etc. aren't either.
Even if it is true this is happening a lot here (it is) and it should be avoided, it is a manipulative argumentation you and some here are pulling, with that kind of generalization,
dividing some of the listeners here into this extremum, hype trainer and hater section. Very much unjust.
"Crying about it projects insecurity" that was unnecessary too

It is mainly probability when assessing by reading through others reviews (comments, descriptions, comparisons etc.).
When out of 10000 x comments the descriptions were mostly consistent, being it positive/negative about x characterstic, and someone writes smt. as I mentioned in #1,969, which isn't simply negative opinion, then I'm wary of it.
If you still see everything critic he wrote simply as negative opinion, well your choice, I exactly described what I see, unjust and wrong with it.
I mostly do not need assessing by reading comments, since I listened to some of the headphones myself. And I had didn't had months between listening session, so it isn't from memory either and no need trying to guess how something sounds.

Back to the ".. overall speed, the HEDDphone is not quite up there with the likes of Stax or even the HD800"
That is plainly wrong from a technical standpoint, as dynamic driver is the technology with slower response compared to planars, electrostats and now the atm transducer. The response matches the signal slower and less accurate with dynamic drivers.
Dynamic don't have a flat impedance, the coil isn't printed and spread all over diaphragm. Resisting the current and less control over the diaphragm's movement.
The inertia is higher with dynamic technology, more mass, less acceleration, more vibration, less fast and accurate transient response.

"All of them feature piston-like diaphragms that move the air in a 1:1 ratio so that the diaphragm velocity equals the air velocity. Whether we talk about electrostatic and magnetostatic speakers, ribbons, voice coil based dome and cone speakers or even a Blatthaller design – they all follow this particular design approach." - quote from hedd audio.
The atm did overcome this and queezes the air out in a 4:1 ratio (air flow velocity to diaphragm velocity).
That's basiscally what everyone has heard and described when listening to the heddphone, resulting in how overall fast it plays, the very accurate transients, very fast attack and decay, very high transducer resolution and perceived detail, transparency.
It is not even biased or unjust negative - far from neutral - reviewing with this specific statement, it is just wrong.


Sometime you like both
That's why personally think it is good to compare different technologies, even different price brackets. But what I dislike it this unjust negative way crinacle did it.
What comes next: him saying electrostatic bass is bad, just because it does not have the same chracteristics as dynamic or planars? Not slamming as hard or as boomy (which is excessive, thus should be seen as negative. But logic ...).

lol

 

[mr.karmalicious]

If your ego is shaken that hard right now and you're emotionally that upset, can't handle what others say

dear lord are we in the core of a burned-out star because the irony levels are absolutely off the charts

 

[pataburd]

The Heddphone are captivating. Have the HE1000SE sitting it out on the bench right now.
Tidal Masters: Kraftwerk, The Man Machine album, in honor of the Heddphone's Germanic DNA.

 

[jaaibananzu]

@SoundHelmet
"The 6khz notch is not a measurement artifact. it was audible on my mine during a sine sweep.
However, narrow notches are hard to hear during music."
This is a good way pointing out something. If you now could describe more of your listening experience regarding this and compare it with different headphones etc. it would be much appreciated.
I proceed pointing out what I see unjust, biased, unncessery negative and simply wrong.
Harping on about especially this is pointless. So move on everyone; if can't handle it, use the forum's ignore function.

 

[mr.karmalicious]

@SoundHelmet
"The 6khz notch is not a measurement artifact. it was audible on my mine during a sine sweep.
However, narrow notches are hard to hear during music."
This is a good way pointing out something. If you now could describe more of your listening experience regarding this and compare it with different headphones etc. it would be much appreciated.
I proceed pointing out what I see unjust, biased, unncessery negative and simply wrong.
Harping on about especially this is pointless. So move on everyone; if can't handle it, use the forum's ignore function.

bro, you just posted cringe. come on

 

[TSAVAlan]

Crin can post here to defend his points if he would like but one could also PM him directly if you want to talk to him directly about how you disagree with his review. Dragging this on here is getting messy and I imagine most people would just like to move on.

Crin obviously didn't hate the HEDDphone by him giving it an A rating but he was still being critical about various aspects about it. It would be nice to get the thread back on track.


I was talking to the guys at HEDD and they will be sending us a demo of the HEDD with the larger yokes and I still have a demo model of the original yokes in our store. I would like to compare personally since on the older model, I was at the largest setting to get a good fit for myself and I consider my head of around medium size. Had a few good demos in our store and the fit mostly seemed fine with the old size on various heads. But because we have had to suspend our showroom for covid, much has been happening in our showroom.

 

[pataburd]

HE1000SE are off the bench [UPOCC silver recabled] and on my head.

More comfortable, offering greater absolute detail retrieval, with an economy, orderliness and exceptional transparency to the presentation. A different creature altogether from the Hedd: the HEKSE sound appreciably more cerebral, correspondingly less emotively counter-balanced, at least for me.

The HifiMAN sound drier, and lack the elasticity and cohesiveness--which effect a better perceived synthesis of the parts--that make the Heddphone more "natural-sounding", vivacious and musically engaging, again, at least for me.

 

[vlach]

HE1000SE is off the bench [UPOCC silver recabled].

More comfortable, offering greater absolute detail retrieval, with an economy, orderliness and exceptional transparency to the presentation. A different creature altogether from the Hedd: the HEKSE sound appreciably more cerebral, correspondingly less emotively counter balanced, at least for me.

The HifiMAN sound drier, and lack the elasticity and cohesiveness--which effect a better perceived synthesis of the parts--that make the Heddphone more "natural-sounding", vivacious and musically engaging, again, at least for me.

Re: 'With an economy'.

What is the economy? The HEKSE is over double the price. Or am i misunderstanding something?