[markm1]

I'm a speaker guy, but I do think you can arguably get to a fairly high level of sound w/ headphones at a smaller price point. But, ATC, I'd rather listen to speakers. Alchemist, you seem so exacting in the sound you want, I wonder if you'll really ever be satisfied short of spending tens of thousands. That's not meant as a criticism just an observation.
 
I really like the sound I've got from my speaker rig after spending around 5-6 thousand, but there are things I could improve and certainly speakers that could double or triple my investment. But, I'm learning to cut my loses and be happy with the sound I have. There's no such thing as perfection. And as is often said, there are speaker set ups that are designed for audiophile classical and jazz tastes that blow with metal.
 
Also, with a speaker rig there are a whole host of other variables-in particular the room, potential room treatments, more amp choices, preamp, more cables, etc.
 
I think you can get decent robust sound from under 2k if you know how to make the right choices and compromises. Not the be all and end all-but something perfectly serviceable.
 
That said, having read your comments, if you are thinking of getting into speakers, wait until you've got at least 10 grand-that's not for everybody-just you my friend

 
 
 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I'm a speaker guy, but I do think you can arguably get to a fairly high level of sound w/ headphones at a smaller price point. But, ATC, I'd rather listen to speakers. Alchemist, you seem so exacting in the sound you want, I wonder if you'll really ever be satisfied short of spending tens of thousands. That's not meant as a criticism just an observation.
 
I really like the sound I've got from my speaker rig after spending around 5-6 thousand, but there are things I could improve and certainly speakers that could double or triple my investment. But, I'm learning to cut my loses and be happy with the sound I have. There's no such thing as perfection. And as is often said, there are speaker set ups that are designed for audiophile classical and jazz tastes that blow with metal.
 
Also, with a speaker rig there are a whole host of other variables-in particular the room, potential room treatments, more amp choices, preamp, more cables, etc.
 
I think you can get decent robust sound from under 2k if you know how to make the right choices and compromises. Not the be all and end all-but something perfectly serviceable.
 
That said, having read your comments, if you are thinking of getting into speakers, wait until you've got at least 10 grand-that's not for everybody-just you my friend

 

 
Yeah, I'm pretty frustrated with myself. I really wanted to love those headphones, but they just didn't sound good enough to me -- except with some really pretty-sounding acoustic music, in which case any headphone can sound good. I actually like some of the more affordable closed headphones more than some of those expensive open headphones, even though the latter do certain things better.
 
In the context of high-end high-fidelity headphones I'm interested in, the STAX SR-009 is the only one that is readily available that I haven't heard yet. I'm strongly leaning towards just buying it, or perhaps the SR-207 to start with.
 
Once I get my first speaker system, I may get active near field studio monitor speakers like the Focal Alpha 50. They're under $600 for a pair. It would be easier too, in terms of not having to do room treatments. At the moment, I have roommates, so I will have to wait until I have my own place before investing in speakers.

 

[phrozenspite]

   
I prefer accurate sound. Period. The HD 800 is so bright and harsh that it makes my ears and brain hurt, like physically. The Focal Spirit Professional is darker, but too dark.
 
I'm just gonna take the plunge into STAX and see how it goes...

Just to play devil's advocate, are you 100% sure that a neutral sound is what you're looking for? I mean, i've seen you mention that a lot and many people here like that sound, but if what you're looking for is actually something different then it might explain why a lot of headphones aren't doing it for you;

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Just to play devil's advocate, are you 100% sure that a neutral sound is what you're looking for? I mean, i've seen you mention that a lot and many people here like that sound, but if what you're looking for is actually something different then it might explain why a lot of headphones aren't doing it for you;

 
There is much debate over what is neutral (like which compensation curve should be followed), but I want accurate sound. Most of the headphones I have heard are so inaccurate it's infuriating. My problem is that none of them are really neutral. They're either too bright or too dark. Literally every single time. I suppose it is challenging to design a truly neutral headphone...
 
I have attempted EQ with some, but it's tricky...
 
On another note, my ears still hurt from hearing the HD 800 earlier today. Neutral audio does not hurt your ears in such a manner. (I am referring to the extreme brightness, not the fact that listening to any headphone at a loud volume can also be painful.)

 

[money4me247]

 
Yeah, I'm pretty frustrated with myself. I really wanted to love those headphones, but they just didn't sound good enough to me -- except with some really pretty-sounding acoustic music, in which case any headphone can sound good. I actually like some of the more affordable closed headphones more than some of those expensive open headphones, even though the latter do certain things better.
 
In the context of high-end high-fidelity headphones I'm interested in, the STAX SR-009 is the only one that is readily available that I haven't heard yet. I'm strongly leaning towards just buying it, or perhaps the SR-207 to start with.
 
Once I get my first speaker system, I may get active near field studio monitor speakers like the Focal Alpha 50. They're under $600 for a pair. It would be easier too, in terms of not having to do room treatments. At the moment, I have roommates, so I will have to wait until I have my own place before investing in speakers.

I personally think you should just go for it... (at least if your budget can afford it). screw demoing and trying it out. it actually gets quite expensive buying and selling multiple times. after you climb to the very top of the mountain, you at least realize what is really up. Though I do think that you would benefit from giving one of the other nice flagships maybe a few weeks to really get a sense of their particular subtle strengths relative to other mid-tier headphones. After giving yourself some solid time just getting used to their sound signature, then you can really begin to appreciate their technical prowess a bit more. It is true a lot of the differences between mid-fi and flagship are quite subtle & can honestly not be worth the price difference.
 
At least after you get one of the most expensive rigs possible and find out its not for you, you can move on to other things in life & put the headphone hobby behind you. if the stax sr-009 works out for you, same thing. you found your perfect headphones & can move on. A lot of people in this hobby just enjoy trying new flavors & enjoying the journey trying out different things, but it seems with you, you just want to find that one perfect set-up. get the stax end-game rig and you can finally see whether this hobby was really worth pursuing. if not, there are many other wonderful things in life to dedicate your time to cheers & g'luck!

 

[markm1]

   
Yeah, I'm pretty frustrated with myself. I really wanted to love those headphones, but they just didn't sound good enough to me -- except with some really pretty-sounding acoustic music, in which case any headphone can sound good. I actually like some of the more affordable closed headphones more than some of those expensive open headphones, even though the latter do certain things better.
 
In the context of high-end high-fidelity headphones I'm interested in, the STAX SR-009 is the only one that is readily available that I haven't heard yet. I'm strongly leaning towards just buying it, or perhaps the SR-207 to start with.
 
Once I get my first speaker system, I may get active near field studio monitor speakers like the Focal Alpha 50. They're under $600 for a pair. It would be easier too, in terms of not having to do room treatments. At the moment, I have roommates, so I will have to wait until I have my own place before investing in speakers.

That might be a good call for you. A quick fix-something I heard at CAF-which would be really viable option for a lot of folks on a budget is the Vanatoo Transparent one.  There are a ton of rave reviews. I'll give you one (below). About $500-powered speaekrs can be plugged into any source-they have their own A/C conververter and digital amp. Plug and play. For the money these things are sick. The base extention surprisingly good. Not six digit system of course-but seriously competitive for such a small investment.
 
http://noaudiophile.com/Vanatoo_Transparent_One/
 
If you want to invest let's say 3-5k into a small room as I've done, there are some options. I went went with Sojfn The Clue speakers (1K) that are optimized for big impressive sound in a room under 2500 cubic feet. Pretty easy to drive. Designed to be placed against the wall to sort of base load using room boundaries a bit like a horn speaker-good all around performer particularly bass which you know is hard in a bookshelf.
 
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/09/19/second-thoughts-digging-in-to-the-clue-from-sjofn-hifi/
 
And, a go to small speaker that scales up with nice gear would be the KEF Ls50 which are the current media darlings. Also touted here on Headi-you can see them written up in Jude's buying guide under desktop speakers. they're about $1500 and pretty awesome. A little demanding in terms of amp. But, very nice.  http://www.cnet.com/news/the-audiophiliacs-speaker-of-the-year-the-kef-ls50/
 
Just to wet your appetite-If you have a small room and can save up 3-5K you can do it.
 
But, then again-you are pretty finicky!

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I personally think you should just go for it... (at least if your budget can afford it). screw demoing and trying it out. it actually gets quite expensive buying and selling multiple times. after you climb to the very top of the mountain, you at least realize what is really up. Though I do think that you would benefit from giving one of the other nice flagships maybe a few weeks to really get a sense of their particular subtle strengths relative to other mid-tier headphones. After giving yourself some solid time just getting used to their sound signature, then you can really begin to appreciate their technical prowess a bit more. It is true a lot of the differences between mid-fi and flagship are quite subtle & can honestly not be worth the price difference.
 
At least after you get one of the most expensive rigs possible and find out its not for you, you can move on to other things in life & put the headphone hobby behind you. if the stax sr-009 works out for you, same thing. you found your perfect headphones & can move on. A lot of people in this hobby just enjoy trying new flavors & enjoying the journey trying out different things, but it seems with you, you just want to find that one perfect set-up. get the stax end-game rig and you can finally see whether this hobby was really worth pursuing. if not, there are many other wonderful things in life to dedicate your time to cheers & g'luck!

 
Thank ya. To be more specific, I actually like all sorts of sound signatures in headphones...but only for more affordable stuff. When spending thousands of dollars on a headphone, I demand the absolute best! I don't mind spending a few thousand more if that helps me achieve that. I will probably always be interested in collecting various headphones after I find my ideal. Just look at the crazy wish lists on my profile. lol
 
I may even end up buying the flagships I was disappointed with...someday...but not until after I find the ideal flagship headphone for me.
 
By the way, I agree with you about the HE1000 being on a higher level than the HD 800. It was easily my favorite out of the ones I heard today. It is definitely of a higher caliber than just about anything else I have heard, overall...but it still had too many problems (like being a little too warm, smooth, and subdued) to justify the cost for me.

 

[baadaq]

need advices for getting a good PORTABLE  pair of headphones to use on the go and library, my limit is 250usd and my options atm are mdr 1a and ath msr7 but it seems both are far from the ideal (ath msr7 being the worst of those two for the genres i like) i mostly listen power, glam and industrial metal with some old good rock & roll, i don't want anything that will kill my hearing (i want something with bass impact and soft but detailed treble) currently i own the sony mdr ma900(wich are my perfect headphones for orchestral music, i prefered them over the senn hd600) and the shure440, the sony are almost perfect but lack the punch in the bass area when needed and the shure srh440 have the perfect treble but no bass wich lead them to sound thin and plz don't ignore me while debating some snake oil stuff (cmons guys we are on a high fidelity forum, how can come that you're discussing audible difference between cables).

 

[socks mk2]

[redacted]

 

[flipper2gv]

  There is plenty of bass on the right amp. However if you are a basshead or want more coloration, planar's do offer more. You want great texture, extension and 
good impact the 009 is by far the cream of the crop to my ears. More bloom in the 007. HD800 offers less as well, but extends nicely. 
 
But really...you want bass...get speakers so you can feel the visceral quality. 

 
Bass was present but it didn't have much impact, like LCD2rev1 impact. It isn't a bad thing, just thought they were a bit polite for me. Much preferred the HE-6 and 407 (or 404) I tried that day.

 

[henkie196]

  I think the issue for many people (me included) is that they require a totally different amplification system investment. I only recently discovered the SRD-7 adaptor as a viable alternative. You just plug it into a speaker amp and you're good to go.

This is part of the issue, yes. The other part is, for me, that I don't want to have to be locked to sit next to the amp if I want to listen to the headphones. Or to have a 5m cable trailing behind me at all times.

Also, electrostats don't have a lot of impact. Like really not a lot. Keep that in mind.

Sounds like these are the headphones that I might like

Except for the being landlocked part.

 
If every single recording in every single genre sounds bright and harsh (or warm and smooth), you can rest assured that you are not listening to accurate audio reproduction.

Probably not. It seems a bit of a preference to me as well, but just keep in mind that if you're looking for this in speakers, it's probably going to cost a lot, too. And I can guarantee that you will not like many of the more expensive ones either.
 

 
Given how much cherry stuff you tried and didn't like today, I'm guessing it has more to do with the amps than the headphones themselves. I find it very hard to believe someone could try all that stuff and not like any of it. Flagship models can vary in sound pretty drastically from amp to amp. Especially the HD800.

I'm not that surprised, really. The very high end headphones are not monitors, they all seem to have their own flavours, that some people like and some people don't. And the amp may affect some things, but the biggest influence is still the headphone itself. If that doesn't sound good to you, you may try to achieve synergy with other source/DAC/amps, but in the end, if you don't like the sound, you don't like the sound.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  need advices for getting a good PORTABLE  pair of headphones to use on the go and library, my limit is 250usd and my options atm are mdr 1a and ath msr7 but it seems both are far from the ideal (ath msr7 being the worst of those two for the genres i like) i mostly listen power, glam and industrial metal with some old good rock & roll, i don't want anything that will kill my hearing (i want something with bass impact and soft but detailed treble) currently i own the sony mdr ma900(wich are my perfect headphones for orchestral music, i prefered them over the senn hd600) and the shure440, the sony are almost perfect but lack the punch in the bass area when needed and the shure srh440 have the perfect treble but no bass wich lead them to sound thin and plz don't ignore me while debating some snake oil stuff (cmons guys we are on a high fidelity forum, how can come that you're discussing audible difference between cables).

 
The Focal Spirit Professional is a solid choice. I like the Yamaha HPH-MT220 more, but it's less portable.
 

Things could be worse. It seems all you want is your ideal SQ from a headphone. I'm stuck with a few choices strictly due to comfort concerns. Any headphone could be the absolute be all end all signature I yearn for, but if I can't stand them being atop my noggin... welp; RIP.

At least I've found my ideal closed, isolating and portable setup.

Finding that perfect balance in an open design is harder because I expect more. For me, SQ wise, all I need is an emotional response from a headphone to enjoy it. Similarly too warm, too lean, too open, too congested, too smooth, too laid back, too slow, etc. can ruin that emotional response trigger for my favorite music and even if it's the most comfortable headphone of all time... back to the drawing board I go. I know better than to buy semi-open headphones now at least due to hypersensitivity issues with air being routed in/out (too much effort to clarify more). I know better than to try headphones with bumpy headbands, too large of earpads, too little of clamping force, too much weight, etc.

The more you try, the more you learn. Reading comparisons between headphones you have owned or auditoned and the one you're researching is very helpful. Learning a reviewers bias/preference and how it differs from your impressions of the same headphone is useful too. This is especially true when a reviewer doesn't listen to anything similar to you. There is a ton of useless information to sift through otherwise.

At some point you'll want to hold onto a pair that's the closest to meeting your expectations. Something better might present itself over time; until then— listening to music while compromising is better than not at all imo.

 
I'm the same way: much pickier with open headphones, especially the expensive ones.
 
I'm getting a MartinLogan Mikros 90 today, by the way. Gotta wait outside for a few hours to make sure I don't miss the darn package...
 
To be fair, I did enjoy all the headphones I heard yesterday. They just didn't blow me away like I was expecting.
 
Oddly enough, I didn't dislike anything about the sound of the Abyss, but it wasn't special at all to me either. And I could not get it to properly fit me no matter what I tried. The HE1000 was easily my favorite, but still too warm and subdued, with some annoying treble peaks on top of that, though not painful like the HD 800's treble peaks. The HE-6 was another headphone that had less problems, but just didn't sound as special to me. The Abyss and HE-6 are definitely safer choices for me in terms of sound, but since I heard more or less all the non-electrostatic flagships at this point, I have narrowed down my choices to STAX. I'd already been planning on buying STAX anyway. Just not sure whether I should get the 207 or 009 first.
 

  This is part of the issue, yes. The other part is, for me, that I don't want to have to be locked to sit next to the amp if I want to listen to the headphones. Or to have a 5m cable trailing behind me at all times.
Sounds like these are the headphones that I might like

Except for the being landlocked part.
Probably not. It seems a bit of a preference to me as well, but just keep in mind that if you're looking for this in speakers, it's probably going to cost a lot, too. And I can guarantee that you will not like many of the more expensive ones either.
I'm not that surprised, really. The very high end headphones are not monitors, they all seem to have their own flavours, that some people like and some people don't. And the amp may affect some things, but the biggest influence is still the headphone itself. If that doesn't sound good to you, you may try to achieve synergy with other source/DAC/amps, but in the end, if you don't like the sound, you don't like the sound.

 
Then may I introduce, for your pleasure and amazement...the portable electrostatic system!
 
https://www.staxusa.com/system/stax-srs-002.html
 
Obviously that portable electrostatic amp will not begin to tap into the potential of sound quality that electrostatic headphones are capable of...but the novelty of a portable electrostatic system is quite appealing!
 
So yeah, I did like those flagship headphones...but none were good enough to justify the price for me.

 

[Hansotek]

 
need advices for getting a good PORTABLE  pair of headphones to use on the go and library, my limit is 250usd and my options atm are mdr 1a and ath msr7 but it seems both are far from the ideal (ath msr7 being the worst of those two for the genres i like) i mostly listen power, glam and industrial metal with some old good rock

The Focal Spirit Professional is a solid choice. I like the Yamaha HPH-MT220 more, but it's less portable.

Things could be worse. It seems all you want is your ideal SQ from a headphone. I'm stuck with a few choices strictly due to comfort concerns. Any headphone could be the absolute be all end all signature I yearn for, but if I can't stand them being atop my noggin... welp; RIP.


At least I've found my ideal closed, isolating and portable setup.


Finding that perfect balance in an open design is harder because I expect more. For me, SQ wise, all I need is an emotional response from a headphone to enjoy it. Similarly too warm, too lean, too open, too congested, too smooth, too laid back, too slow, etc. can ruin that emotional response trigger for my favorite music and even if it's the most comfortable headphone of all time... back to the drawing board I go. I know better than to buy semi-open headphones now at least due to hypersensitivity issues with air being routed in/out (too much effort to clarify more). I know better than to try headphones with bumpy headbands, too large of earpads, too little of clamping force, too much weight, etc.


The more you try, the more you learn. Reading comparisons between headphones you have owned or auditoned and the one you're researching is very helpful. Learning a reviewers bias/preference and how it differs from your impressions of the same headphone is useful too. This is especially true when a reviewer doesn't listen to anything similar to you. There is a ton of useless information to sift through otherwise.


At some point you'll want to hold onto a pair that's the closest to meeting your expectations. Something better might present itself over time; until then— listening to music while compromising is better than not at all imo.

I'm the same way: much pickier with open headphones, especially the expensive ones.

I'm getting a MartinLogan Mikros 90 today, by the way. Gotta wait outside for a few hours to make sure I don't miss the darn package...

To be fair, I did enjoy all the headphones I heard yesterday. They just didn't blow me away like I was expecting.

Oddly enough, I didn't dislike anything about the sound of the Abyss, but it wasn't special at all to me either. And I could not get it to properly fit me no matter what I tried. The HE1000 was easily my favorite, but still too warm and subdued, with some annoying treble peaks on top of that, though not painful like the HD 800's treble peaks. The HE-6 was another headphone that had less problems, but just didn't sound as special to me. The Abyss and HE-6 are definitely safer choices for me in terms of sound, but since I heard more or less all the non-electrostatic flagships at this point, I have narrowed down my choices to STAX. I'd already been planning on buying STAX anyway. Just not sure whether I should get the 207 or 009 first.

 
This is part of the issue, yes. The other part is, for me, that I don't want to have to be locked to sit next to the amp if I want to listen to the headphones. Or to have a 5m cable trailing behind me at all times.
Sounds like these are the headphones that I might like Except for the being landlocked part.
Probably not. It seems a bit of a preference to me as well, but just keep in mind that if you're looking for this in speakers, it's probably going to cost a lot, too. And I can guarantee that you will not like many of the more expensive ones either.
I'm not that surprised, really. The very high end headphones are not monitors, they all seem to have their own flavours, that some people like and some people don't. And the amp may affect some things, but the biggest influence is still the headphone itself. If that doesn't sound good to you, you may try to achieve synergy with other source/DAC/amps, but in the end, if you don't like the sound, you don't like the sound.

Then may I introduce, for your pleasure and amazement...the portable electrostatic system!

https://www.staxusa.com/system/stax-srs-002.html

Obviously that portable electrostatic amp will not begin to tap into the potential of sound quality that electrostatic headphones are capable of...but the novelty of a portable electrostatic system is quite appealing!

So yeah, I did like those flagship headphones...but none were good enough to justify the price for me.

On the subject of portable electrostatics, there's also the Koss ESP-950.... The E-90 amp can be run on battery power.

 

[Music Alchemist]

On the subject of portable electrostatics, there's also the Koss ESP-950.... The E-90 amp can be run on battery power.

 
Too bad the headphones are a little large for portable use, and you've got that cable and full-size amp to lug around. Not exactly the most portable system. XD

 

[henkie196]

  Then may I introduce, for your pleasure and amazement...the portable electrostatic system!
 
https://www.staxusa.com/system/stax-srs-002.html
 
Obviously that portable electrostatic amp will not begin to tap into the potential of sound quality that electrostatic headphones are capable of...but the novelty of a portable electrostatic system is quite appealing!

The idea is interesting, but if we're talking what essentially appear to be ear buds, I think I'd prefer CIEMs. Naturally, I haven't heard them, so maybe I'm too quick to dismiss them.

 
Too bad the headphones are a little large for portable use, and you've got that cable and full-size amp to lug around. Not exactly the most portable system. XD

Transportable would be ok for me. I would just want to be able to be able to change from the sofa to the table without having to stop playback, unplug, move, replug, restart playback. But from skimming a few reviews it appears these Koss ESP/950s are a tad on the warmer side? If so, they're probably not for me.
 
For portable use, I'll stick with in-ears, I think.