Headphones for metal music - ultimate solution
Dec 26, 2020 at 4:29 PM Post #10,156 of 12,314
Hello, I wanted to ask in the Clear - Thread but then i saw this one: I'd like to know if the Focal Clear is a good headphone for rock, metal, core & movies and much better than cheaper products like Denon 7200, Ibasso SR2, Hifiman Sundara / HE-400, Sennheiser HD560S, Monolith SM1070, Audio Technica ATH-R70X? Is there a better alternative or is the clear a "no brainer" and the way to go for his price? I ask because I sometimes hear that the clear is too neutral and you hear bad and average productions too good which doesn't make a lot of fun at listening to this genres.
 
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Dec 27, 2020 at 1:18 AM Post #10,157 of 12,314
Hello, I wanted to ask in the Clear - Thread but then i saw this one: I'd like to know if the Focal Clear is a good headphone for rock, metal, core & movies and much better than cheaper products like Denon 7200, Ibasso SR2, Hifiman Sundara / HE-400, Sennheiser HD560S, Monolith SM1070, Audio Technica ATH-R70X? Is there a better alternative or is the clear a "no brainer" and the way to go for his price? I ask because I sometimes hear that the clear is too neutral and you hear bad and average productions too good which doesn't make a lot of fun at listening to this genres.

The Clear is really good, but if you can listen to it alongside the Hifiman Arya, then I would definitely recommend doing that. At that price point, it's between the Clear and the Arya, maybe the HD800S too, but I'd personally take the Arya over the 800s every time. Yes, the Clear is superior to all of those cheaper headphones you mentioned, how much better and whether or not it's worth the extra cash is a subjective matter though.
 
Dec 29, 2020 at 5:52 PM Post #10,158 of 12,314
I know this horse has probably been beat to death in this thread but I just have to say, I'm completely blown away with the LCD-2 (fazors) when it comes to metal. I'm running a slightly modified version of Oratory 1990's parametric EQ settings, applied via APO / Peace. Powering them with a Schiit Heresy + Modi 3.

Since receiving the LCD-2 a week ago, I've been listening through my some of my favorite 2020 black metal releases to cap off the year. A few standouts with some thoughts below:
  • Gaerea Limbo - Pure desperation front to back. This album is an emotional tour de force. Most likely my personal black metal AOTY pick. The LCD-2's relaxed mid range really helps tone down what can be a mix with some glare on the high-hat and cymbal crashes (come across as harsh/glaring on my NM2+ IEMs). The bass kick, toms and bass guitar are purveyed with so much power and clarity but no bleed or boomy-ness. Super enjoyable album through these headphones.
  • Necrophobic Dawn of the Damned - Power, immensity, and melodic guitar leads are the name of the game in this blackened death metal powerhouse. The tremolo guitar work comes across so cleanly through the heavy, unrelenting double bass kicks. The vocals in the album are a major standout and I truly think Anders Strokirk is one of the best singers in the black / blackened death genre.
  • Ondskapt Grimoire Ordo Devus - Sinister and dread laden, in the best way possible. Ondskapt know how to take Swedish black metal and add some (in my opinion) much needed flavor to it. The mix is warmer, cleaner and more dynamic than typical SBM and I think it makes the album all the more enjoyable. The drumming throughout is stellar and the LCD-2 does it perfect justice. There's an air to the toms and the cymbal flourishes sound 'spaced out' perfectly.
The LCD-2 will most likely be my 'end game' until I can hear some ZMF's and the RAD0 in person (maybe some day meets will be a thing again). Until then, I can rest easy knowing I've got a set of cans that I truly have a hard time taking off my head and make me want to listen to music, especially metal, more than ever before.
 
Dec 29, 2020 at 6:10 PM Post #10,159 of 12,314
I know this horse has probably been beat to death in this thread but I just have to say, I'm completely blown away with the LCD-2 (fazors) when it comes to metal. I'm running a slightly modified version of Oratory 1990's parametric EQ settings, applied via APO / Peace. Powering them with a Schiit Heresy + Modi 3.

Since receiving the LCD-2 a week ago, I've been listening through my some of my favorite 2020 black metal releases to cap off the year. A few standouts with some thoughts below:
  • Gaerea Limbo - Pure desperation front to back. This album is an emotional tour de force. Most likely my personal black metal AOTY pick. The LCD-2's relaxed mid range really helps tone down what can be a mix with some glare on the high-hat and cymbal crashes (come across as harsh/glaring on my NM2+ IEMs). The bass kick, toms and bass guitar are purveyed with so much power and clarity but no bleed or boomy-ness. Super enjoyable album through these headphones.
  • Necrophobic Dawn of the Damned - Power, immensity, and melodic guitar leads are the name of the game in this blackened death metal powerhouse. The tremolo guitar work comes across so cleanly through the heavy, unrelenting double bass kicks. The vocals in the album are a major standout and I truly think Anders Strokirk is one of the best singers in the black / blackened death genre.
  • Ondskapt Grimoire Ordo Devus - Sinister and dread laden, in the best way possible. Ondskapt know how to take Swedish black metal and add some (in my opinion) much needed flavor to it. The mix is warmer, cleaner and more dynamic than typical SBM and I think it makes the album all the more enjoyable. The drumming throughout is stellar and the LCD-2 does it perfect justice. There's an air to the toms and the cymbal flourishes sound 'spaced out' perfectly.
The LCD-2 will most likely be my 'end game' until I can hear some ZMF's and the RAD0 in person (maybe some day meets will be a thing again). Until then, I can rest easy knowing I've got a set of cans that I truly have a hard time taking off my head and make me want to listen to music, especially metal, more than ever before.
Nice descriptions. I haven't heard the Ondskapt album yet. Will check it out.
 
Dec 29, 2020 at 10:46 PM Post #10,160 of 12,314
Anyone here who could recommend headphones on the cheaper side? Looking to stay under 250$. Genres I mostly listen to: Prog rock/metal, djent, post rock/metal, math rock, indie. My HD58x does a pretty good job with indie and most rock songs and I love it. But metal music sounds kinda "boring" on it. Any recommendations?
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 2:50 AM Post #10,161 of 12,314
Anyone here who could recommend headphones on the cheaper side? Looking to stay under 250$. Genres I mostly listen to: Prog rock/metal, djent, post rock/metal, math rock, indie. My HD58x does a pretty good job with indie and most rock songs and I love it. But metal music sounds kinda "boring" on it. Any recommendations?
Used Sundara goes for $250. I love them for metal
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 4:38 AM Post #10,162 of 12,314
Anyone here who could recommend headphones on the cheaper side? Looking to stay under 250$. Genres I mostly listen to: Prog rock/metal, djent, post rock/metal, math rock, indie. My HD58x does a pretty good job with indie and most rock songs and I love it. But metal music sounds kinda "boring" on it. Any recommendations?

I second the Hifiman Sundara suggestion. If you can pick one up used that is going to be the best you can do for the money by far, unless you want to go the IEM route.
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 12:12 PM Post #10,163 of 12,314
Used Sundara goes for $250. I love them for metal
I second the Hifiman Sundara suggestion. If you can pick one up used that is going to be the best you can do for the money by far, unless you want to go the IEM route.
Unfortunately I everything I find used for Sundara is 300+. How about the HE-400i 2020 or 4xx?
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 2:38 PM Post #10,164 of 12,314
Unfortunately I everything I find used for Sundara is 300+. How about the HE-400i 2020 or 4xx?

I for one, did not really enjoy the 4XX. The pads were itchy and hot, headband was not comfortable and felt cheap. Which sucked b/c they're kind of heavy, but the clamp was not too bad and I'm very clamp sensitive (I will never use Sennheisers again clamp sensitive).

The treble was very, brittle sounding. The bass extended very far but was really thin. But bass bloat gives me a headache, so that didn't bother me as much as the treble being kind of harsh and thin. I've heard better things about the 400i, so if you're looking for planars around that price that is what I'd probably go with. I'm not really sure what dynamics would be good for metal at this price. I really like my PortaPros with Sennheiser 414 pads and a BoseComfort headband added on. They were my dailies for a long time. The 58X are pretty good for classic metal, doom, prog. I'm not a fan of them for fast death metal with lots of bass. The 400i would be a better pick IMO.

If you're OK with IEMs, that IMO is where the better price/performance ratio is. There's a IEM metal thread on here you should post to if IEMs are an option:
https://www.head-fi.org/posts/16070832/

You'll probably get recommendations for the NF NM2+ and KBEar Believe. I have the Believes en route....for weeks
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM Post #10,165 of 12,314
Unfortunately I everything I find used for Sundara is 300+. How about the HE-400i 2020 or 4xx?
Keep an eye on the AVExchange subreddit. Sundara's routinely come up for ~$280 but they typically sell the day they're posted.

The 400i do well with metal. They have a bit of treble emphasis but are not what I would describe as bright by any means. Not a ton of sub bass and bass impact but what's there is fast and punchy. They take EQ well if you don't mind going that route. For the price, I think they're a great option. Open box from HiFiMan at $139 is a steal IMO.
You'll probably get recommendations for the NF NM2+ and KBEar Believe. I have the Believes en route....for weeks
I recently received the NF Audio NM2+ and I'm not sure I'll keep them. I need to give them some more listening time but they're very bright and fatiguing with black metal, most death metal I've listened to or really any compressed mix. They're very detailed, and have great bass response, but they do not shine at all with the metal I typically listen to. Interested to hear how you like the Believes. Those are on my IEM wish list.
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 3:32 PM Post #10,166 of 12,314
Grado Hemps came in today. So far they passed the hifi playlist and many problem metal albums.

I find guitars often sound weird on these albums when headphones have hyped or recessed mids: Hath - Of Rot and Ruin, Ihsahn - After, Numenorean - Adore. But they all sounded great.

Some of the black metal I've thrown at it has been...OK. Black metal is a tricky one though. I.e. Emperor - Towards the Pantheon sounded kind of off to me and I couldn't figure out what it was. I'm comparing with my Presonus S6 monitors b/c they're the most accurate things I have or have ever heard. Vukari - Aevum, another rather poorly recorded thrashy black metal album has the same offness to it. Like it's lacking some edge or treble extension that brings it down a notch. I have some Geekria pads to swap with later that'll try. I haven't listened to any trad black metal on them yet; lo fi black metal is not my thing. I'm more of the thrashy riff driven death metal type like Immortal and Emperor than the ambient noise.

Fast death metal - great. Tight bass, guitars sound killer. Slays in general.

These have been pretty consistent sounding to me off the Atom + MOTU M4, direct off the Apple USB-C dongle connected to a laptop, and my LG G7 phone. I have an iFi attenuator on the vintage Technics SA400, but haven't checked them without the attenuator and the high impedance straight off the jack. These do trigger the high impdeance mode for me on the G7 consistently. I had to trim my phone case because the jack terminal housing is huge. These don't really have the increased bass response from higher power like the 6XX or dt770-250s do, which makes sense. They're not that hard to drive. Phone volume is at 15/75. 770s can get up to 30/75.

Everyone says these are "lively", but I find they're still pretty mellow. Male and female vocals sound excellent. I love the way snares sound, something I don't say often. Cymbals are kind of subdued for me though. That's better than harsh and overpowering. Same with the bass. Nice texture. Listening to the Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer you can really hear the timpani strikes without losing the boominess, which is often completely washed out on many headphones and speakers.

As for comfort, I thought the headband was uncomfortable immediately. It has zero padding. But after an hour that was fine and the ear pads started to pinch the tops of my ears. I don't find the pads rough or harsh at all. I use Yamaha RH5ma's for CSGO daily, so I'm used to on ears and those pinch my ears a bit too, but have softer pads. Clamp is fine and easily adjustable. So, not the comfiest cans ever. But not nearly as uncomfortable as many reviewers were saying.

They're the best things I own, and sound like a well tuned 58X with a different sound stage. I'd say they're closer to the HD600 but with better bass? I don't think they're as buttery as the 6XX or HD650, but they're definitely as enjoyable to listen to and work better across many genres that I like (metal, classical, jazz, classic rock). The 6xx are extremely genre specific to me, and why i didn't keep them. I don't have an OTL amp to say anything about that. I have no other Grados to compare to, hence the Sennheiser comparison.

For the price...I'm not sure these are a no brainer or not. I think they're reasonable considering the HD660 is about the same price, but the Sundara's are less. But after owning the HE4XX I'm not really looking for that sound or low build quality. So I'm pretty happy with these.

Big edit:
These are so much faster than any Sennheisers I've heard. Unfortunately it's been a long time since I've been in a store and heard pricier dynamics.

Example:
Carcass - Necroticism (Full Dynamic Range FLAC on UAPP in Bit Perfect mode) sounds closer to a planar in speed than a dynamic. I'm hearing much better instrument separation on this album than on the 58X which I still have to compare with. I can easily hear all the little subtle thigns going on with the riffing. This album can sound like a mess of instruments and that's not the case at all.

Black metal: needs a treble boost and some lower mid cuts to get that bite back to the guitars. But I mean it's black metal. And so far the only thing I've felt the need to EQ. I like listening off the vintage receiver with these b/c I can just twist the treble knob to get some bite back. I think these headphones would be a good combination with an analog preamp like the Loki so you can do some minor EQ tweaks on the fly.

Overal verdict: Crazy good dynamics that cover a wide range of genres well. Fast and deep like a planar, a little dark in the treble. I found that to get the best comfort you need to get the clamp perfect, to where it's not falling off your ears but also not pinching the cartiledge at the top.
 
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Dec 30, 2020 at 4:45 PM Post #10,167 of 12,314
I for one, did not really enjoy the 4XX. The pads were itchy and hot, headband was not comfortable and felt cheap. Which sucked b/c they're kind of heavy, but the clamp was not too bad and I'm very clamp sensitive (I will never use Sennheisers again clamp sensitive).

The treble was very, brittle sounding. The bass extended very far but was really thin. But bass bloat gives me a headache, so that didn't bother me as much as the treble being kind of harsh and thin. I've heard better things about the 400i, so if you're looking for planars around that price that is what I'd probably go with. I'm not really sure what dynamics would be good for metal at this price. I really like my PortaPros with Sennheiser 414 pads and a BoseComfort headband added on. They were my dailies for a long time. The 58X are pretty good for classic metal, doom, prog. I'm not a fan of them for fast death metal with lots of bass. The 400i would be a better pick IMO.

If you're OK with IEMs, that IMO is where the better price/performance ratio is. There's a IEM metal thread on here you should post to if IEMs are an option:
https://www.head-fi.org/posts/16070832/

You'll probably get recommendations for the NF NM2+ and KBEar Believe. I have the Believes en route....for weeks

Keep an eye on the AVExchange subreddit. Sundara's routinely come up for ~$280 but they typically sell the day they're posted.

The 400i do well with metal. They have a bit of treble emphasis but are not what I would describe as bright by any means. Not a ton of sub bass and bass impact but what's there is fast and punchy. They take EQ well if you don't mind going that route. For the price, I think they're a great option. Open box from HiFiMan at $139 is a steal IMO.

I recently received the NF Audio NM2+ and I'm not sure I'll keep them. I need to give them some more listening time but they're very bright and fatiguing with black metal, most death metal I've listened to or really any compressed mix. They're very detailed, and have great bass response, but they do not shine at all with the metal I typically listen to. Interested to hear how you like the Believes. Those are on my IEM wish list.

Thanks! Unfortunately not a fan of IEMs. Definitely considering the 400i 2020 seriously now. Any idea how they compare with K371 or M40/50x for prog and fast metal?
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 5:50 PM Post #10,168 of 12,314
Thanks! Unfortunately not a fan of IEMs. Definitely considering the 400i 2020 seriously now. Any idea how they compare with K371 or M40/50x for prog and fast metal?
what bands/genres do you listen to? what will be your source of sound and power?
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 5:56 PM Post #10,169 of 12,314
what bands/genres do you listen to? what will be your source of sound and power?
Mostly Prog Rock/Metal, Djent, Post Rock/Metal, Post Hardcore, Death Metal, Math Rock & Black Metal. I usually play my music through bandcamp/spotify on my laptop. I currently don't own an amp/dac setup but will get one based on the headphone. :)
 
Dec 30, 2020 at 6:27 PM Post #10,170 of 12,314
Grado Hemps came in today. So far they passed the hifi playlist and many problem metal albums.

I find guitars often sound weird on these albums when headphones have hyped or recessed mids: Hath - Of Rot and Ruin, Ihsahn - After, Numenorean - Adore. But they all sounded great.

Some of the black metal I've thrown at it has been...OK. Black metal is a tricky one though. I.e. Emperor - Towards the Pantheon sounded kind of off to me and I couldn't figure out what it was. I'm comparing with my Presonus S6 monitors b/c they're the most accurate things I have or have ever heard. Vukari - Aevum, another rather poorly recorded thrashy black metal album has the same offness to it. Like it's lacking some edge or treble extension that brings it down a notch. I have some Geekria pads to swap with later that'll try. I haven't listened to any trad black metal on them yet; lo fi black metal is not my thing. I'm more of the thrashy riff driven death metal type like Immortal and Emperor than the ambient noise.

Fast death metal - great. Tight bass, guitars sound killer. Slays in general.

These have been pretty consistent sounding to me off the Atom + MOTU M4, direct off the Apple USB-C dongle connected to a laptop, and my LG G7 phone. I have an iFi attenuator on the vintage Technics SA400, but haven't checked them without the attenuator and the high impedance straight off the jack. These do trigger the high impdeance mode for me on the G7 consistently. I had to trim my phone case because the jack terminal housing is huge. These don't really have the increased bass response from higher power like the 6XX or dt770-250s do, which makes sense. They're not that hard to drive. Phone volume is at 15/75. 770s can get up to 30/75.

Everyone says these are "lively", but I find they're still pretty mellow. Male and female vocals sound excellent. I love the way snares sound, something I don't say often. Cymbals are kind of subdued for me though. That's better than harsh and overpowering. Same with the bass. Nice texture. Listening to the Gladiator score by Hans Zimmer you can really hear the timpani strikes without losing the boominess, which is often completely washed out on many headphones and speakers.

As for comfort, I thought the headband was uncomfortable immediately. It has zero padding. But after an hour that was fine and the ear pads started to pinch the tops of my ears. I don't find the pads rough or harsh at all. I use Yamaha RH5ma's for CSGO daily, so I'm used to on ears and those pinch my ears a bit too, but have softer pads. Clamp is fine and easily adjustable. So, not the comfiest cans ever. But not nearly as uncomfortable as many reviewers were saying.

They're the best things I own, and sound like a well tuned 58X with a different sound stage. I'd say they're closer to the HD600 but with better bass? I don't think they're as buttery as the 6XX or HD650, but they're definitely as enjoyable to listen to and work better across many genres that I like (metal, classical, jazz, classic rock). The 6xx are extremely genre specific to me, and why i didn't keep them. I don't have an OTL amp to say anything about that. I have no other Grados to compare to, hence the Sennheiser comparison.

For the price...I'm not sure these are a no brainer or not. I think they're reasonable considering the HD660 is about the same price, but the Sundara's are less. But after owning the HE4XX I'm not really looking for that sound or low build quality. So I'm pretty happy with these.

Big edit:
These are so much faster than any Sennheisers I've heard. Unfortunately it's been a long time since I've been in a store and heard pricier dynamics.

Example:
Carcass - Necroticism (Full Dynamic Range FLAC on UAPP in Bit Perfect mode) sounds closer to a planar in speed than a dynamic. I'm hearing much better instrument separation on this album than on the 58X which I still have to compare with. I can easily hear all the little subtle thigns going on with the riffing. This album can sound like a mess of instruments and that's not the case at all.

Black metal: needs a treble boost and some lower mid cuts to get that bite back to the guitars. But I mean it's black metal. And so far the only thing I've felt the need to EQ. I like listening off the vintage receiver with these b/c I can just twist the treble knob to get some bite back. I think these headphones would be a good combination with an analog preamp like the Loki so you can do some minor EQ tweaks on the fly.

Overal verdict: Crazy good dynamics that cover a wide range of genres well. Fast and deep like a planar, a little dark in the treble. I found that to get the best comfort you need to get the clamp perfect, to where it's not falling off your ears but also not pinching the cartiledge at the top.

Wow, great feedback! It's cool to see that Grado are back in the game. I agree that the Hemp sound like a faster version of the HD600 but with better bass.
 
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