[kyrie]

So you say that the HD25 don't have the same visceral impact that your subs do, yet deliver the same "level" of bass. Visceral impact adds a LOT to the perceived amount of bass. In order to bring the bass up to a level where the perceived amount of bass would be equal to that of a speaker, you need to have that much more quantity of bass to cover for the lack of visceral impact. IMO comparing bass in speakers to that in headphones simply don't work.
If you want to start talking about technical stuff, then I might bring up the headroom graphs for the HD25, which seem to clearly support my argument. Whether you find your subjective comparison of headphone bass to speaker sub bass - two totally separate beasts - calibrated using an SPL meter, or the frequency response measured using a specially designed dummy head system more reliable...is not really of interest to me, but I just wanted to point out that your argument is rather weak.

That being said, it may very well be that our difference in opinion comes from our source and amp difference. Case in point, when I tried the HD25 directly from my iHP-120, I found the bass to be greatly dimished in quantity, as to actually match the midrange (though the treble was rather attenuated as well, so I still couldn't call the sound neutral).

 

[Daroid]

[size=xx-small]just forget it.[/size]
---
But why judge the headphones on sub-par sources (i.e. portables doesn't max out what it can sound like).

Visara: The Beyerdynamic DT250-250 are very balanced headphones maybe worth considering also. A lot of users have regarded them highly through a long time

. Haven't tried them personally, but haven't heard any complaint about them. And i'm sorry for hi-jacking your thread. will not happen again

 

[kyrie]

Daroid, I think you read my entire post in two seconds, because you missed all of my major points.

 

[Daroid]

All I was trying to say was that the graphs/measurements doesn't prove much, but I wholeheartedly agree with you that comparing speaker vs. headphone bass is a no-no.
I was too unclear.. my fault

 

[philodox]

I like headroom, but those measurements are absolutely useless. I dont know why anyone even brings them up any more.

 

[BluesDaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daroid All I was trying to say was that the graphs/measurements doesn't prove much, but I wholeheartedly agree with you that comparing speaker vs. headphone bass is a no-no. I was too unclear.. my fault

My point was that the bass in my room is not boomy and goes deep and is well defined, so I have a frame of reference for bass. By "Visceral impact" I mean thump you in the rear at loud volumes. These phones don't make my pants leg sway on explosions, etc, but my sub does. Despite the graphs (which I have no clue when, where or how were made) the HD25s are not boomy, do not exhibit any noticeable "hump" or overemphasis at certain frequencies (such as 45hz or so) and would not be what I would every characterize as "bassy".

And I'd hate to have spent a lot of money on equipment that overemphasizes bass when listening through a nice neutral set of headphones.

 

[commando]

If you want closed cans look at my review, linked in my sig. I don't agree with the earlier suggestion of AKG271s.

If you can get away with it, get open cans. HD600 perhaps, so long as you have an amp to drive them.

 

[appar111]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie Bass heavy. The treble is a bit recessed but has decent extension, and the bass doesn't overwhelm it in most cases. If you equalized the bass down, then you'd have a fairly neutral headphone.

Are you sure you're not talking about the HD25-SP? I don't find my 25-1's to be too tipped towards the bass...

 

[visara]

Thanks for all the replies.

00940, you didn't seem to think very highly on any of the cans for unamped listening. If, however, I picked something from that list for the purposes listed in the first post, what would you suggest? Never heard of HFI650 trackmaster and I'm always suspicious of things until I hear them mentioned a few times. Anyone else have an opinion on these? Would these be useful for both mixing and home listening, unamped?

Don't think I've heard the beyer dt250-80 suggested before now either... So the difference between 250-80 and 250-250 is in impedance? If so, I guess 250-250 would be more easily driven from soundcard, and thus better suited for me?

HD 25-1 seems to be always suggested, when monitoring headphones are asked for. Is the HD 25-1 = HD 25? They look a bit uncomfortable, as they don't seem to cover the ear. Is this a false impression? From an electronic music production site I read: "HD25 is not good for mixing at all (I got boomy/muddy mixes because of the unnatural low/mid freq response)", so I'm not that tempted to pick them up...

Again, cans being open is not a problem at all. Actually, remarks like "If you want accuracy, make sure you get open open-backed pair, as they give more balanced results" have made me prefer open models.

I think I'll have to pass on the Audio-Technica ATH-A900 on the grounds that they seem to be very poorly available within EU.

Commando, I believe you drove all the phones from a headphone amp in your review? Do you think the results would translate to a non-amped situation? You recommended HD280, but I've heard some negative comments on them, for example: "Stay away from HD280 Pro as far as possible! Very poor design quality, mine headband cracked multiple times". Someone at these boards just called Sennheiser's HD 2xx series a joke. Also, Thomann lists them as DJ-headphones, usually a big no for mixing!

I'm a bit surprised that nobody recommended the HD580. Are you guys sure you aren't exaggerating the significance of a headphone amp just a little bit? 00940, you mentioned that the sound is "pretty lazy... when underdriven from a soundcard". How big a minus do you consider this to be, that is, just how dull and uninspiring is the sound? Would you people absolutely not recommend HD580 or HD600 for unamped listening?

 

[Murdoch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by visara So the difference between 250-80 and 250-250 is in impedance? If so, I guess 250-250 would be more easily driven from soundcard, and thus better suited for me?

Other way 'round. The DT250-80 is the more easily driven phone.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

As for plugging in headphones directly into a receiver's/integrated amp's headphone jack, be advised that you will not get optimal sound quality from that jack, no matter which headphone that you'll be plugging into it. Most such jacks, including those in most Yamaha receivers, have a high enough output impedance (over 100 Ohms) that will muddy and distort the sound coming out of those jacks, even at moderate volume levels. But most modern headphones (HD580 and HD600 included) sound best at a near-zero-Ohm output inpedance.

On the other hand, if your source is a portable player or soundcard, be aware that most such outputs are too weak to properly drive higher-impedance, lower-sensitivity headphones sich as the HD580: Either the maximum practical loudness is still too low (i.e. the loudest usable level will still be lower than even the ambient noise level that leaks through the earcups), or the output will clip badly at SPLs that are considered "barely audible" for music.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by visara Don't think I've heard the beyer dt250-80 suggested before now either... So the difference between 250-80 and 250-250 is in impedance? If so, I guess 250-250 would be more easily driven from soundcard, and thus better suited for me? HD 25-1 seems to be always suggested, when monitoring headphones are asked for. Is the HD 25-1 = HD 25? They look a bit uncomfortable, as they don't seem to cover the ear. Is this a false impression? From an electronic music production site I read: "HD25 is not good for mixing at all (I got boomy/muddy mixes because of the unnatural low/mid freq response)", so I'm not that tempted to pick them up... Again, cans being open is not a problem at all. Actually, remarks like "If you want accuracy, make sure you get open open-backed pair, as they give more balanced results" have made me prefer open models. I think I'll have to pass on the Audio-Technica ATH-A900 on the grounds that they seem to be very poorly available within EU. Commando, I believe you drove all the phones from a headphone amp in your review? Do you think the results would translate to a non-amped situation? You recommended HD280, but I've heard some negative comments on them, for example: "Stay away from HD280 Pro as far as possible! Very poor design quality, mine headband cracked multiple times". Someone at these boards just called Sennheiser's HD 2xx series a joke. Also, Thomann lists them as DJ-headphones, usually a big no for mixing! I'm a bit surprised that nobody recommended the HD580. Are you guys sure you aren't exaggerating the significance of a headphone amp just a little bit? 00940, you mentioned that the sound is "pretty lazy... when underdriven from a soundcard". How big a minus do you consider this to be, that is, just how dull and uninspiring is the sound? Would you people absolutely not recommend HD580 or HD600 for unamped listening?

The 250-80 is easier to drive. The "-80" or "-250" denotes the impedance.

The HD 25-1 is commonly known as HD 25. There is an inferior version named HD 25 SP.

I don't know where you got that info on the HD 25 but that store was probably referring to the HD 25 Sp because the HD 25 definately does not fit that description. The HD 25 is a very balanced headphone (in my opinion).

Closed headphones can be just as balanced and neutral as open headphones. The advantage of open headphones usually consists of the much bigger soundstage, comfort, and sometimes instrumant placement, etc. .

The A900 can be ordered from www.audiocubes.com They ship worldwide

By saying that the 2xx is a joke, the poster was most likely referring to the Sennheiser HD 202 or 212.

"Lazy" is the perfect word to describe the HD 580/600 without a dedicated hzeadphone amp. Bass response is slow,undefined, very little impact.

 

[erikzen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by visara HD 25-1 seems to be always suggested, when monitoring headphones are asked for. Is the HD 25-1 = HD 25? They look a bit uncomfortable, as they don't seem to cover the ear. Is this a false impression? From an electronic music production site I read: "HD25 is not good for mixing at all (I got boomy/muddy mixes because of the unnatural low/mid freq response)", so I'm not that tempted to pick them up...

There seems to be some confusion on this and not just on the boards here. There are in fact two different headphones with the HD 25 badge. One is the HD 25 SP, which is the cheaper version. The other is the HD 25 without the SP. In some cases it is referred to as the HD 25-1. I usually use the "-1" just so people know I'm not talking about the "SP" version.

Both of these headphones are supra-aural so it is not a false impression. The SP is the cheaper of the two models. They differ in the headband and the cord. The SP has a two sided cord while the other has a one sided cord. Additionally, the more expensive model has a unique split headband.

Price wise, the HD 25-1 sells for around $200 although you can find them cheaper. The HD 25 SP sells for around $100.

As far as sound goes I have heard neither, but the SP apparently has some rolled off highs. However, I have heard a few people describe the HD 25 as bass heavy and others as neutral, so I always wonder, which can they're actually talking about. I can understand the confusion. Look at this link. The picture clearly shows the HD 25 SP. However, the merchants below are selling the HD 25 with the split headband.

Edit: Oops, saint.panda beat me to it and said it much more succinctly than I.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikzen Both of these headphones are supra-aural so it is not a false impression. The SP is the cheaper of the two models. They differ in the headband and the cord. The SP has a two sided cord while the other has a one sided cord. Additionally, the more expensive model has a unique split headband.

True there. But the one-sided cord on the HD25-1 doesn't go on the user's left-hand side like most other one-sided cords - instead, it goes on the user's right-hand side.

 

[00940]

I think a little search would show you that many people here have heard the ultrasone HFI-650 and many among them have posted favorable reviews. Check for example Kelly reviews of closed cans, inside the dedicated reviews section. Or simply believe Jan Meier when he writes on his website : "Sonically the Ultrasone HFI-650 Trackmaster is simply one of the best closed systems available."

Regarding the HD580. From a soundcard, the downside are a serious decrease in the slam and control of the bass, a sound getting a bit blurry and making difficult to pick details. It is not "bad" in absolute terms and can be enjoyable for long relaxed sessions but it is an highly unaccurate sound.

Other interesting cans have gone out of the wood in this post. I would personnaly investigate HFI650, beyer DT250 and senn hd25-1 if I were in your position. HD280 could fit the bill as monitoring cans but they're just sooo boring and dull that they kill IMHO any enjoyment one could find in music.