[visara]

Hello,
I've been reading these forums for a while now, but haven't posted since I don't think I have the expertice or experience to contribute anything of value. I made a few searches and it seems to me that this particular question has not been asked. So:

I need good headphones that I would use for *both* studio production, mixing and mastering work as well as pure home listening.

- For audio production work, I need the cans to have a flat frequency-response and be as neutral (uncolored etc) as possible. They should have a detailed sound, but not in an unnaturally exaggerated way.

- However, because of the usage in pure hedonistic music listening, they should not sound dull but should have a pleasing enough sound that they deliver in this respect as well.

An oxymoron! Yes, usually the cans suggested for home listening differ greatly from those suggested for studio work in the same price range.

- For both usages, the cans should be as comfortable as possible - I should be able to wear them for many hours straight and not get ear fatique. Whether they would be a sealed or an open-air model doesn't have a big significance to me, since leakage is not a big problem. Nice isolation would be a plus, but I have heard that open-air models fair generally better as accurate reference-monitoring phones to do mixing work on. So I've been eyeing open-air models a bit more.

I do not have a headphone amp, and will not purchase one in the near future! When used in production work, the phones would be plugged straight into the output of my soundcard. For listening purposes, they would be plugged into the phones-output of my Yamaha RX-396RDS amplifier.

I'm prepared to use approximately 100-200 EUR, but those are not rigid borders. I'm going to use them a lot, so I don't want to make big compromises.

The phones I've been considering are (prices in €):

SENNHEISER HD 600 AVANTGARDE 179
SONY MDR-7506 160
BEYERDYNAMIC DT 990 PRO 139
BEYERDYNAMIC DT 770 PRO 137
AKG K 271 Studio 144
SENNHEISER HD 580 II PRECISION 128.5
AKG K 141 Studio 89
AKG K 240 Studio / K 240 M / K 240 DF - 89 / 63 / 95

(These prices are mostly from dodgy german sites of which I know very little. I might have to pay more in reality, but they give a pretty good indication of the relative prices of the items). Does the quality of phones generally increase significantly as more money is spent on them? That is, could it be said that AKG K 141 and 240 models absolutely cannot compete with the more expensive models on the list? If so, I might as well drop them from consideration.

The phones I've been considering the most I guess is the Sennheiser HD 580. This is one of the few that has been recommended for both studio and home listening. Also heard it gives more bang for bucks than HD 600. Does anyone know what that "II PRECISION" stands for? I've always read suggestions for only HD580, is this some new models with differences I should know of?

Also, I live in Finland so that I will probably order the phones from somewhere around EU. Does anyone know of cheap, reliable and internationally shipping stores I should check out? Also, can someone recommend places to by used headphones in Europe?

Phew, sorry for the long post. I'm grateful for any and all suggestions you can give. Thanks in advance!

 

[NightWoundsTime]

My recommendation would be for the AKG271s. It will sound good unamped and it's a closed can so it offers good isolation.

The Senn 580 and 600 are both open and will let sound in as well as let sound leak out. Not good for a lot of professional environments.

The Beyer 990 may be a choice but I haven't heard it. The 770 is known for extremely unbalanced bass so don't try mixing with it.

Other than that, you'll probably want to stay away from the Sony. And the other AKG models you've listed will be similar to the 271s but not as balanced.

 

[00940]

SENNHEISER HD 600 AVANTGARDE 179 : pretty lazy sound when underdriven from a soundcard.
SONY MDR-7506 160 : unbalanced sound in V shape. Cool, fun sound though
BEYERDYNAMIC DT 990 PRO 139 : not heard
BEYERDYNAMIC DT 770 PRO 137 : boom, boom, boom, don't mix with such bass heavy cans
AKG K 271 Studio 144 : heard once, didn't like much. Not much substance in the sound.
SENNHEISER HD 580 II PRECISION 128.5 : same as hd600
AKG K 141 Studio 89 : bof, forget about those
AKG K 240 Studio / K 240 M / K 240 DF - 89 / 63 / 95 : consider only the studio version of those if using them from a soundcard. Good cans but probably a bit too warm for mixing. very nice for extended listening though.


I would add on your list the HFI650 trackmaster (my pick, i owned them) and the beyer dt250-80 (only on what people say of them).

 

[Drunken Mastah]

I've been thinking of the hd580s myself, but I'm planning on monitoring/dj'ing, and not from a soundcard. As you say about it sounding bad when underpowered from a soundcard, what do they sound like when powered nicely from a mixer or something like that?

 

[erikzen]

I've been thinking about HD 25-1 for similar uses but those might be too hard to drive directly from a soundcard.

 

[kyrie]

Actually, the HD25-1 is surprisingly sensitive; it can even be driven from a portable device. However, it's very far from being "neutral," so I can't recommend it for studio work.

 

[erikzen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie Actually, the HD25-1 is surprisingly sensitive; it can even be driven from a portable device. However, it's very far from being "neutral," so I can't recommend it for studio work.

How would you characterize its sonic signature? Bass heavy, exaggerated mids, rolled off highs? What makes it "un-neutral"?

 

[kyrie]

Bass heavy. The treble is a bit recessed but has decent extension, and the bass doesn't overwhelm it in most cases. If you equalized the bass down, then you'd have a fairly neutral headphone.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie Bass heavy. The treble is a bit recessed but has decent extension, and the bass doesn't overwhelm it in most cases. If you equalized the bass down, then you'd have a fairly neutral headphone.

Weird, I never find the HD25 to be bass heavy. For me "bass-heavy" means an undefined bass that influences the midrange. The bass on the HD25 is clearly separated from the mids and highs. For example: In rock music, it's never been so easy for me to differentiate drums from the rest of the instruments. The bass is tight and fast and, I agree, it has a lot of punch. But that punch is here and gone in an instant - like in real life.

I personally would describe the HD 25 as very neutral. I've tried many other closed headphones and they all didn't seem very neutral to me. For example, the AKG 271 has a slightly emphasised midrange.
The only downside of the HD 25 is that the midrange can sound rather dry and not as sweet as on other headphones (AKG 271 e.g.). However, I believe that this characteristic might even prove itself useful for studio work.

Nonetheless, I don't know how the HD 25 would serve studio purposes because of the missing soundstage.

The comfort can be greatly increased (from low comfort to decent comfort) by using velour pads and by stretching the headband over a pile of books for a couple of days.

And the HD 25-1 are the easiest to drive headphone in the 100-200$ league.

visara, as you stated already, it's hard to find headphones that fits both studio and home use criteria. However, I believe the HD 25 might be an ok compromise.

Regarding your other options, if you can afford a headphone amp, then I'd also recommend the HD 580/600. Although they have more laid-back sound signature, the sound of the Senn HD 580/600/650 series is the closest to real life sound I ever heard. Whether this aspect leads to listening pleasure obviously is a different issue but for music mixing it might be useful.

You can get headphones from www.meier-audio.de which ships worldwide.

Used headphones in Europe .... EBAY!!

 

[kyrie]

Well, my definition of bass-heavy is different from yours. I agree that the HD25's bass is well separated from the midrange and treble, and doesn't influence them negatively. However, I would still argue that the bass on the HD25 is still very much over-emphasized. It's "good" bass, but there's simply too much of it for me to be able to call it neutral.

 

[Daroid]

Well, when both of you says more or less bass-heavy, what source were/are they used on ?

 

[saint.panda]

I've tried the HD 25-1 on many portable sources (Sony D777, D311, D211, D303 Philips AZ6831) and some standalone cdps such as Rega Planet 2000, my vintage Philips CD 850, etc.
Always a healthy amount of bass (even unamped) although the quality in bass differed a lot depending on the source, as well as the resolution and refinement of the bass.

 

[GlowWorm]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the A900? My friend who is a recording engineer in NYC uses them for both purposes.

 

[BluesDaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikzen I've been thinking about HD 25-1 for similar uses but those might be too hard to drive directly from a soundcard.

Nope, their quite easily driven by a soundcard. In fact, I'm currently listening to my pair plugged directly into my Compaq laptop. More than enough volume, unless you want to damage your ears!

 

[BluesDaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie Bass heavy. The treble is a bit recessed but has decent extension, and the bass doesn't overwhelm it in most cases. If you equalized the bass down, then you'd have a fairly neutral headphone.

Well, this is not my experience at all. My speakers are a DIY designed two-way with a 7" mid-woofer that extends to about 55hz. I have these matched with a 15" sealed sub, upper cutoff about 70hz with extension in my listening room flat to 20hz (I know, I've measured and equalized using my computer, an SPL meter and a Behringer Feedback destroyer to smooth out the sub's in room response and set the levels to match the fronts). The HD25s, while without the visceral impact of the sub, deliver comparable quality and level of bass. I can't speak to the extension yet, I haven't really tested that far, but these are *not* what I would call "bass heavy".