[Soundsgoodtome]

Interesting.... +1 on the question!

Jerg, are you concerned with having the driver flex issues that the Audezes have by creating a "perfect seal"? I ask because I had NVX angled pads on my HE-4, but ended up installing "vents" with Michael's sticky back black foam. The driver flex would change the sound if I moved aroubd too much, just the same as the LCDs...

 

[jerg]

Jerg, are you concerned with having the driver flex issues that the Audezes have by creating a "perfect seal"? I ask because I had NVX angled pads on my HE-4, but ended up installing "vents" with Michael's sticky back black foam. The driver flex would change the sound if I moved aroubd too much, just the same as the LCDs...

I don't feel that the HFM driver enclosure is ever going to have as much of an air-tight seal as Audeze ones, there is always some wiggle room between the drivers and the inside of the cups. That and the hybrid earpads allow a minor but consistent bit of venting because of the breathable velour.
 
The only way to create truly perfect seal in the enclosure would be to also line the inside of the cups so that the drivers fit into them hermetically, and the earpads swapped to something completely leather like Audeze pads.
 
 
 
 
 
 
But yeah, silicone-based glue seems really good. That may be what's needed as an improvement to the sealing-related modifications.

 

[pauldgroot]

Btw, I've been playing around in my head to make new driver cups out of real wood on a lathe just because I can and it'll probably look nicer. Anybody else thought about doing so?

 

[daltonlanny]

  Jerg, I did a measurement without the liner per your request. I also tested two and three layers of my shelf liner but that didn't do much. I'm really hoping to test some of your material in the future.
 

Questions:
1. Is there any way to get the enhanced and extended bass from about 150 hz down to 20hz, while at the same time mainly keeping the stock frequency response from about 2.25 kHz to 20 kHz?
[That increase in the peak from 3 kHz to 5 kHz, and the dip at 6 kHz to 7 kHz looks worrisome].
2. Which part of the mod are increasing the peak and causing the dip, or is it from the combination of them?
3. Does the bass enhancement/sealing mod, [# 3], have any effect at all on frequencies above 150 hz, up to 20 kHz?
4. What measurable effect on frequency response does just the re-grilling mod, [#4], have without the other 3 mods?
Thanks for your help.

 

[pauldgroot]

1. Yes, sticking the pads to the baffle mostly affects the lows only.
2. Probably the pad mods but that mod was also made to improve decay and minimize reflections.
3. Don't really think so.
4. I've measured the HE-560 with and without a grill and didn't find anything really noticable.

 

[pauldgroot]

I also did these measurements for Phil-P a couple of days ago to test out different liner materials and orientations. All measurements have been done five times with different head positions and then averaged out. Please note that the measurements go down to 10Hz, that's why there is a roll-off. Also note that these tests have all been done with Jerg's pad mod installed and stuck on pads.
 
All measurements overlayed.

 
2dB gap inbetween.
 

 
5KHz-20KHz zoomed in.
 

 
I found out that the liner that Jerg used in his OP are the best overall when placed like this =O= with the flat side facing the diaphragm. (yellow line) All materials do help as long as you don't let the flat side of the liner face the listener which was pretty interesting to find out. Interesting was to see the 10KHz and up response with any of the liners. My guess is that the dip around 14KHz is because the reflections come back in a negative phase which cancels out part of the response. I also had a look at the decay of the mods but couldn't find anything really notable.
 
Still, I am waiting for a pair of Focus-A pads because I'm anxious to know if the liner + A pads makes them even better. I do feel that Jerg's pad mod is not for me because I absolutely have to EQ the 4Khz bump down. We'll have to wait for Jerg or Bill-P to write up their new modifications.
 
Anyhow, I hope someone finds this interesting.

 

[daltonlanny]

  I also did these measurements for Phil-P a couple of days ago to test out different liner materials and orientations. All measurements have been done five times with different head positions and then averaged out. Please note that the measurements go down to 10Hz, that's why there is a roll-off. Also note that these tests have all been done with Jerg's pad mod installed and stuck on pads.
 
All measurements overlayed.

 
2dB gap inbetween.
 

 
5KHz-20KHz zoomed in.
 

 
I found out that the liner that Jerg used in his OP are the best overall when placed like this =O= with the flat side facing the diaphragm. (yellow line) All materials do help as long as you don't let the flat side of the liner face the listener which was pretty interesting to find out. Interesting was to see the 10KHz and up response with any of the liners. My guess is that the dip around 14KHz is because the reflections come back in a negative phase which cancels out part of the response. I also had a look at the decay of the mods but couldn't find anything really notable.
 
Still, I am waiting for a pair of Focus-A pads because I'm anxious to know if the liner + A pads makes them even better. I do feel that Jerg's pad mod is not for me because I absolutely have to EQ the 4Khz bump down. We'll have to wait for Jerg or Bill-P to write up their new modifications.
 
Anyhow, I hope someone finds this interesting.

Thanks for your response.
The reason I was asking these questions about the mods is because I am very sensitive to peaks around 4 kHz, and could not tolerate the Sennheiser HD 600 simply because of a peak in this region.
They had too much "bite" in this area, and a harshness to my ears, so I sold them, and went with the HD 650.
So how do you think the HE-560 would sound with just the bass enhancement mod and re-grilling mod only, and without the shelf liner mod or earpad mod?
With just the bass enhancement mod and re-grilling mod only, do you predict the HE-560 would sound the very best with the stock focus pads, or with the stock focus A pads?
Thanks again.

 

[daltonlanny]

Ideally, I think I would prefer my HE-560 with just enhanced bass power and extension, and more openness, and a wider stage without any peaks or dips being enhanced.

 

[pauldgroot]

I really have no idea since I've never heard them with only the sealed pads and no grill. For me, stock pads were better and the Focus-A pads lift the 2KHz and push down the 4KHz range a bit I think so that would be even better for me since that is what I am EQ'ing now. Also, Jerg said that his upcoming mod would require the Focus-A pads so he probably prefers them too.
 
PS: I don't remember my HD600's having a peak around 4KHz. See measurements here from Innerfidelity. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD600.pdf

 

[daltonlanny]

Guess I will just have to experiment.
As a side note, there are other frequency response graphs from other sources that show a slight peakiness in the HD 600 around 3.5 khz to 4.5 khz, and others besides myself have commented on it.
I can plainly hear it with no problem.
Don't get me wrong, the HD 600 is a great headphone, a classic, and very balanced, but I can hear this slight peak, and the lack of sub bass very well.

 

[q2klepto]

Has anyone measured the affects of pad swapping? Specifically trying out the audeze pads?

Been thinking of getting the vegans to try and increase soundstage width on my 400i, maybe even increase bass impact a little

 

[jerg]

Something like RTV Silicon adhesive. One of the softer curing ones that stays a bit towards the soft rubber consistency after curing. It sticks pretty darn well to things like plastic, metal, and even glass. But is can be peeled off of the surface pretty much intact if done carefully. It comes in different colors. White, black and clear are some options.

I wonder if I was understanding things well. Was not the idea of putting something like the plastic on the HD800 pads onto the HFM pads to make a good seal without using anything else?

Ordered a tube of the silicone adhesive you mentioned; will try it out in the near future, hoping it'd work out nicely!

 

[mrscotchguy]

Ordered a tube of the silicone adhesive you mentioned; will try it out in the near future, hoping it'd work out nicely!

Have you tried electrical tape as a non permanent solution?

 

[jerg]

Have you tried electrical tape as a non permanent solution?

You misunderstand. Electrical tape isn't double-sided, so it is useless in context (of adhering the earpads snugly to the headphone cups).

 

[mrscotchguy]

You misunderstand. Electrical tape isn't double-sided, so it is useless in context (of adhering the earpads snugly to the headphone cups).

I undertand where you're going, I'm just curious if you've tried replicating the seal by wrapping electrical tape around the circumference of the cups covering any gaps between the pads and the rim. If there's no sound improvement, then going forward with a permanent solution may be unnecessary.

Whenever I got a perfect seal with NVX/Brainwavz pads... I had to break it to prevent driver flexing. I never borhered testing for gains in SQ as I was worried about damaging the driver.