[money4me247]

 
@money4me247 I'm not sure what you have against the HE-4, but you have definitely made that much clear, lol. I understand where you are coming from though. There is a pretty big following for a headphone that is way under the radar, for a headphone that most would automatically assume is inferior to its brethren. What I think you're having a hard time realizing is that 95%+ of the people that have tried the HE-4 more than happy with it. Most of us (including myself) would say that it's the best headphone purchase they've made. Now as far as the HE-400i goes, here is how I would respond to your reasons to wait:
 
-Single ended. Who cares, the HE-4 is already single ended. 350g.
-More comfortable. I didn't realize there was a comfort issue in the first place.
-More efficient. Yes, okay, it's nice that they are moving in this direction. But... it doesn't change the fact that I'll still be using Ember and that the HE-4 doesn't not struggle as much as people think with lesser amps.
-Need a $400 amp for the HE-4. I'm not sure that this statement is worth countering. It's just bloody ignorant.
 
Now here are things that you should also consider:
 
-HiFiMan's revision history with the HE-400.
-The HE-4 is now discontinued, there won't be much stock left in the near future.
 
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm tickled pink by these new HFM. I'm a major HFM fanboy, haha. That said, I'm just as excited as most people are (and who knows how long I'll be able to hold out before buying a pair). Still though, the HE-4 is a wonderful headphone, and truth be told, bottom line, we still know nothing about the HE-400i and HE-560. It's not really fair for you to not recommend a headphone you haven't listened to and also recommend a headphone nobody has listened to (this is also against the forum rules). Us HE-4 enthusiasts are biased for good reason. HFM produced a headphone that is easily twice as good as the HE-400 for only $50 more, yet the HE-400 thread is over 1000 pages long and the HE-4 thread is barely pushing 100. I think I speak for everyone who's had experience with both headphones when I say that this is a bit frustrating.

 
Errrr... totally false! LOL. I have absolutely nothing against the he-4. I am sure they are a fantastic pair of headphones & I would love to try em someday soon, esp since users such as MattTCG have a positive experience with them. I don't think I have ever made a negative comment against the he-4 in any thread on these forums. rotfl
 
my post was simply a response to a very specific query where an user wanted to get a complimentary pair of headphones to the HD650 & has a schitt V&M stack. my recommendation was to simply wait for the newer more efficient HE-400i to come out before making any purchase now as his current gear would be severely under-powered for the HE-4. aka wait for more options before throwing down some serious money so you don't regret it. I am really not sure where all these random assumptions & defensive/aggressive posts are coming from as I feel like my opinion is simply common sense lol. 
 
All your random defensive arguments are kind of superfluous as I wasn't attacking the HE-4 or complaining about anything LOL. I merely pointed out the fact that the HE-4 would not be suitable for that specific user, is not what he is really looking for, and does not match his equipment. You don't need to listen to a pair of headphones when there are giant threads & tons of users incessantly explaining the amping requirements of the HE-4 (to be at least 2W at 50ohms I believe) to see that the magni or vali  will be severely under-powered for these. In terms of the $400+ price of the amp... that would refer to the price of cheapest schitt amp (aka the Lyr) that can adequately power the HE-4 as the poster is a schitt fan.
 
It's actually hilarious to see people crawling out of the woodwork to yell at me as if I'm a HE-4 hater or a HE-400i fanboy when I am honestly excited to try both headphones, never said anything negative about either pair of headphones, and probably will not buy either in the near future due to my budget.
 
Personally, I think the reason that this HE-4 thread only has 100-ish posts compared to the HE-400 thread is because this thread is an EXTREMELY UNFRIENDLY place and VERY INTOLERANT of any dissenting opinions. I mean, oh my goodness, let's be real... you guys are getting defensive over a neutral post suggesting to wait for more options to come on the market before pulling the trigger on a pair of $450 headphones as the user's current equipment is underpowered for the HE-4............ if you guys cannot maturely handle that kind of common-sense recommendation for a specific situation without acting like I published dissertation on why the HE-4 sucks & view every single statement that does not fall in line with the "HE-4 are the best pair of headphones in the world" as a personal attack, people will definitely start to not take your opinions very seriously & begin to think that your opinions are extremely biased. The point of this hobby is to try new gear, find gear you are passionate about, guide other people to gear that suit their specific needs/preferences (which omg surprise - may be different from yours) based on your experiences, and most importantly... having fun & be friendly!!!
 
If you read the full conversation instead of making random assumptions and still think I am the one being a hype troll or bad-mannered or negative..... I am not really sure I know how to respond.
 
 

Spoiler: Transcript of the full conversation

  Hi, I currently have the Schiitz Vali + Modi Stack with the HD 650 and was looking into purchasing a complimentary headphone to listen to my music (predominantly pop, female vocals, etc) from a different perspective. I had heard that the HE-400s were complimentary to the HD 650, but are the HE-4's also complimentary or are they just an upgrade of the HD 650? Thanks. 

 

  I actually would imagine that the HE-400 & the HD-650 are close enough that there is no need for both. There are definitely people who prefer one over another, but the general consensus seems to be that they are alternatives rather than compliments. I think for you, that the hd650 is probably the better choice for your music preferences.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/631682/he400-vs-hd650
http://thefoxdenblog.blogspot.com/2013/05/hifiman-he-400s-vs-sennheiser-hd650.html
http://www.head-fi.org/t/636629/sennheiesr-hd-650-vs-hifiman-he-400/75
 
I have never heard the HE-4, but a lot of people on this thread makes it sound like the HE-4 is a giant upgrade from the HE-400s. However, it sounds like you will probably need to upgrade your equipment if you want to experience its full sound potential (aka probably at least an additional $400+ on an amp plus the HE-4's $450 sticker price = $900ish = over the HE-500 & in Audeze LCD2 price range). not worth it in my opinion.
 
If you really want to upgrade/find a compliment pair of headphones, I think it would be most prudent to wait for the release of the HE400i which has easy amping requirements and would most likely improve on the HE-400's sound. Sticker price for the HE-400i may be around $500-ish I believe, so that would still be cheaper than the HE-4+amp, and it would most likely be a solid upgrade in sound quality from your current headphones. The HE-400i will be extremely easy to drive & have greatly improved comfort, so I think you will definitely enjoy those the most; especially coming from the extremely light HD650s with your current amp set-up.
 
My personal opinion of course

 

No ....he4 wins.

 
Quote:

  Shoul I just return the vali and upgrade to an asguard 2? I already purchased the HE-4 so a little hesitant. Would the asguard suffice for it?

 
Quote:

  lol you are basically on an HE-4 appreciation thread soooo.....
 
I personally can't really imagine a good reason not to wait for the extremely-light, more-efficient, redesigned single magnet HE-400i for only $150 more. patience is a virtue after all lol.
 
however, I am sure the HE-4 are a great pair of headphones, so it's really no worries at the end of the day.

 

Screw the 400i. Speculation and no legit reviews mean nothing. The he4 is and always will be an awesome planar. To get that efficiency from a Single sided magnet mean hfm lost something along the way. I am willing to bet the he4 kills the 400i properly amped. I'm not hopping on that hype train like you sir. Once again, patience is a virtue, and no real reviews have came out yet. The he4 will hold its value. Not to mention I don't want that abyss looking monstrosity sitting atop my head

 

  lol... it's not jumping on a hype train. The improved comfort and improved efficiency are very real facts from user experiences at CES. Yes, the HE-400i's sound is still being tuned or whatever, but waiting to see what your options are is much smarter than throwing down money & regretting it later. After the 400i is out & you decide you still prefer the HE-4, you can snipe the HE-4 at a cheaper price as well. It's really a no-lose situation.
 
Blindly betting that the HE-4 will outperform the HE-400i when there is only "speculation & no legit reviews" out yet is simply foolish IMO. Claiming that your personal pick of headphones is the best before anyone has heard the sound of the updated pair of single-sided maggies is the definition of hopping on a hype train lol 

 
Edit: I am not saying anything negative about the HE-4, I am simply advising to wait for the newer models to come out before making a choice as they are only 1-2 months away from being released. You have to realize how biased & silly the recommendation to simply buy the HE-4 without waiting sounds especially when the user does not even currently have the proper amping requirements for the HE-4...

 
Quote:

Have you listened to the he4?

 

Oh didn't think so

 
Quote:

Go back to your CES club...leave the he4 enthusiasts alone

 

  Lol. have you heard the he-400i?
 
no offense, but these kinds of comments from "he-4 enthusiasts" really makes them sound really extremely biased. When is it a bad idea in the audiophile hobby to try other equipment before settling on what you like? On this thread, there seems to be a lot of intolerance towards any other opinions that is not raving about how the HE-4 is simply god's gift to mankind. If you are attacking me for recommending waiting to try out other headphones before getting the HE-4.......... o.0?
 
note: the question I was responding to was someone looking for a "complimentary" pair of headphones to the HD650... he wasn't even looking for an upgrade or anything specific. Spending $850+ to get the right amp + the HE-4 is extremely excessive for someone looking to just find a different sound signature. There are a ton of options out there. The HE-4 is not the right answer for every users' needs.

 
Quote:

Go back to ces

 
 

 
Edit: I've noticed that it kinda seems like the whole point of this entire thread is to simply convert as many people over to the HE-4 as possible (lol - funny as when it is titled as a comparison thread). ...and it also seems that people on this thread get extremely riled up when you do not instantly jump in line with the thread's opinion that the he-4 is "the best pair of headphones ever." i hope you guys realize that that kind of statement is extremely subjective and if someone does not buy/does not like the he-4, it doesn't mean anything, right? it really doesn't matter how many people own the he-4 or how many people like the he-4. everyone has different preferences & tastes lol, and not all headphones are suitable for everyone. ...hence this hobby, right? =P

 

[Thujone]

Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

 

[hemipowered007]

Hemi is such a mean pitbull....I already said my piece/peace. Don't need to go any further with this. Yea I started it, and I'm saying im not saying anymore myself on this subject. Sorry for the mess of posts here fellas, not apologizing to anyone specific, at all. Just saying I created this rambling thing here. Now, back to the topic at hand. Ranting is finished. Oh, and nobody takes me seriously anyways bud, I'm all over the place all the time...I know it, but hey, I is who I is.

 

[money4me247]

  Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

mmm... well, I really feel that a lot of the people on this thread put off an extremely biased vibe and may be letting their passion of their personal headphone choice cloud their ability to give good neutral advice/recommendations that keep in mind what the user is specifically looking for and people here may be seeing a lot of neutral remarks as personal attacks when that is not the case. ...which leads to messy misunderstandings & conflicts that i would prefer to avoid.
 
I mean, it is really awesome that you guys are so passionate about the he-4, but i mean, real talk - the he-4 is not going to be end-game for everyone and not everyone will like it. that's just the truth. there is really no need to attack everyone who says something different from "omg the he-4 is the best ever" - i mean if the whole thread is just he-4 rules forever, what would be the point of the thread, right?
 
I am personally really curious to try the HE-4 as I really admire all the HE-4 owners' enthusiasm, but honestly, I doubt I will ever buy to keep something which such high amping requirements as it is unrealistic with my personal budget. I mean, I moved on from a lot of great headphones that I really enjoyed, but that doesn't take anything away from those headphones. I will probably upgrade from my current HE-400s in the near future, but that doesn't mean the HE-400s are any less good lol!
 
hopefully, my comments aren't offending anyoneeeee lol. i get really confused when people start getting really argumentative & aggressive because i'm a really chill guy & i never mean to be confrontational or argumentative.
 

Hemi is such a mean pitbull....I already said my piece/peace. Don't need to go any further with this. Yea I started it, and I'm saying im not saying anymore myself on this subject. Sorry for the mess of posts here fellas, not apologizing to anyone specific, at all. Just saying I created this rambling thing here. Now, back to the topic at hand. Ranting is finished. Oh, and nobody takes me seriously anyways bud, I'm all over the place all the time...I know it, but hey, I is who I is.

 

hahaha... I don't think you are mean or intentionally trying to be rude or anything. honestly, i was just really shocked/surprised by aggressive-sounding responses as i was pretty sure my comments were fairly neutral. it's no worries though as tone often does not get conveyed very well over these inter-webs 

 
i just hope my comments clarified my message for you and you realize that I was not/am not hating on the HE-4 or anything like that.

 

[Rinx7]

@money4me247 On the subject of power needs, people within this thread can't even agree on the power needs of the HE-4. Personally I think it is fine on everything, but very quiet recordings on around 500mW - 1W, and the specs seem to back that up. However, I can understand why people recommend better amps since it is clear that this headphone scales well with amplification. Honestly it looks like the Magni would be plenty good enough for the HE-4 as an entry level option and the Vali would struggle a bit, but could still work. I think a lot of people here are just jumping to extremes rather than just stating what range the headphone is 85%-90% functional at. 

 

[hemipowered007]

That's why power to price I say emotiva. Not going to be the best, but its 160, and is a decent clean speaker amp. But, I want more, and the mini will be going up for sale as soon as I find a used bifrost or Peachtree dac it x. Then, I'm going lyr or ember dependent on used pricing. Its rough in this hobby, because I know ill want an hd800, and neither that dac nor amp will do it justice, so then, ill end up with multiple rigs. Money money money, good thing I get 3 raises this year

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

  @money4me247  Honestly it looks like the Magni would be plenty good enough for the HE-4 as an entry level option and the Vali would struggle a bit, but could still work. I think a lot of people here are just jumping to extremes rather than just stating what range the headphone is 85%-90% functional at. 

They do put out more power than the Vali but the pairing might not be good with the HE4. Who knows where the head-fier was coming from, for all we know a darth beyer, but he said that the HE400 sounded harsh/bright with the Magni. Just a thought, not saying it wouldn't work or won't pair well. You could always return it with Schiit's 2 returns per year policy.

 

[hemipowered007]

I'm going to try and find an audio shop around here and use some different amps. Just to see further how the 4 changes. Someone loan me some of that special thing we call time, I need 20 hours to re hab my pioneer....maybe 15....

 

[raxx]

I hope I didn't sound biased towards the HE-4. They are the only good headphone I have ever owned and I have only had them for about 1 day lol. I was just putting in my 2 cents. I didn't get that the guy already had an amp/dac combo that wasn't suited to power the HE-4 like the Project Ember can. I think in this case waiting for the new hifiman headphones might be a good idea since he might have the right gear to power them. We just have to wait and see what they sound like and what amp can drive them. 

 

[hemipowered007]

  I hope I didn't sound biased towards the HE-4. They are the only good headphone I have ever owned and I have only had them for about 1 day lol. I was just putting in my 2 cents. I didn't get that the guy already had an amp/dac combo that wasn't suited to power the HE-4 like the Project Ember can. I think in this case waiting for the new hifiman headphones might be a good idea since he might have the right gear to power them. We just have to wait and see what they sound like and what amp can drive them. 

None of us truly sounded biased. All that writing was about me. Youre good bud, enjoy the hps. I felt these were the first hp that actually "hit the spot" for me. grado sr80i, shure 840,he400, re400, magnum v5, then....the he4, finally got me where i wanted to go. So, how are your enjoying the bifrost? did you have a dac previously to compare it to? Reason i ask is all i have currently is a dac destroyer, which, well, isnt the greatest. But best ive owned is the e17, which, also, isnt the greatest. So, im trying to get a dac for the 4 and thats what seems to be the consensus as a great mid fi dac. Whats your opinion on its performance if you dont mind me asking?

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

6 screws per side to separate the driver from the cup.

From there it's easy peasy. Removing the grill just means taking off the rings that hold it on. Jam both your thumb nail between the ring and cup at 1:30, pull down and once you have some flex, pull out towards you. The remaining 3 tabs will come out by pulling the ring towards the loosened tab.

 

[raxx]

  None of us truly sounded biased. All that writing was about me. Youre good bud, enjoy the hps. I felt these were the first hp that actually "hit the spot" for me. grado sr80i, shure 840,he400, re400, magnum v5, then....the he4, finally got me where i wanted to go. So, how are your enjoying the bifrost? did you have a dac previously to compare it to? Reason i ask is all i have currently is a dac destroyer, which, well, isnt the greatest. But best ive owned is the e17, which, also, isnt the greatest. So, im trying to get a dac for the 4 and thats what seems to be the consensus as a great mid fi dac. Whats your opinion on its performance if you dont mind me asking?

Well, before my current setup, I was using the onboard soundcard built into my motherboard and a pair of $50 Sennheiser headphones. I bought my stuff based on what Thujone recommended. I read as many reviews and posts about the different Hifiman hps and I decided that the HE-4 was what I wanted. I even asked tons of head-fi.org users who owned different headphones, dacs and amps what they thought about their gear so I based my choices on all of that feedback too. I almost went with the he-400 and he-500 but they didn't seem like the right fit for me. I went with the uber bifrost because nobody said it sucked, and it has a 5 year warranty, and it has all the bells and whistles you want in a dac. So I would give the uberfrost a thumbs up so far. I don't have anything to compare it to at the moment. The HE-4 , Ember, and Uber Bifrost rock. 

 

[hemipowered007]

Well,good to hear youre enjoying the setup. The 400, you may have enjoyed, but honestly, i believe the 4 does literally everything better. The 500, im not sure, i still want to hear one and experience those lush mids everyone speaks of. Either way, sounds like you have an insane setup for a first build, good job on going big off the bat. Ive wasted alot of time and money, and continue to do so.

 

[raxx]

  Well,good to hear youre enjoying the setup. The 400, you may have enjoyed, but honestly, i believe the 4 does literally everything better. The 500, im not sure, i still want to hear one and experience those lush mids everyone speaks of. Either way, sounds like you have an insane setup for a first build, good job on going big off the bat. Ive wasted alot of time and money, and continue to do so.

Yea, the 400 was a big temptation, but when people say "you either love them or hate them" and "they don't sound quite right" you have to rethink. I still want to hear the 400 and 500 just to hear what is different about them. I went big on my audio because I have learned that going mediocre just costs you money and time in the end. 

 

[Xenophon]

  Well,good to hear youre enjoying the setup. The 400, you may have enjoyed, but honestly, i believe the 4 does literally everything better. The 500, im not sure, i still want to hear one and experience those lush mids everyone speaks of. Either way, sounds like you have an insane setup for a first build, good job on going big off the bat. Ive wasted alot of time and money, and continue to do so.

I own the 6 and the 500 but not the 4 nor the 400, although I did audition the 400.  Compared to it the 500 has a forward midrange, if the 400 has a V-shaped FQR then the 500 has something more like a flattened ^.  Coupled to a slightly warmer tone it's the perfect can for vocals, jazz and (a bit to a lesser extent) classical imho.  For rock and fast electro I'd stick to the 400.  Compared to the 6 the 500 is definitely less neutral (6 is close to perfection for that) and less transparent.  I'm going off topic but if you're looking for cans that work very well with all genres but especially with classical and are less analytical and a bit less resolving than the Senn HD-800 (listen to less than pristine recordings on the 800 and you'll know what I mean) you can't go wrong with the HE-6.  I purchased mine used for 700 USD.  It requires a serious amp but by no means only a speaker amp, many people who post here exaggerate the requirements and speaker amps can have serious drawbacks too.  As long as you have 2W clean on tap and don't max out the volume you're golden.  Would be curious to audition the 4 though.