[daniel521]

Im planning on upgrading my  ath-m50 for an open can sometime soon but I'm having trouble deciding which. A fellow head-fier said the he-400 was a must and I was pretty sure on getting it, but im still in some doubt. I listen mostly to rock (green day, audioslave, guns and roses) and pop rock (maroon 5, train). I strongly dislike laid back headphones and I want a forward sounding headphone which gives me kind of a "thrill" when listening to it. That doesn't necessarily mean I want a bright headphone though because im not sure I know what a bright headphone sounds like so I dont know if I like it or not. I want it to have a big soundstage and to have that airy feel of an open can, but im sure all of them would have that. I want an exciting headphone which gives me that "alive" feeling, can anyone help me out. Also, what would be a proper amp and DAC to use with them? The amps Im thinking of right now are the fiio e9 and O2 but I dont know what DAC to us, what is recommended?

 

[olegausany]

HE-400 are a steal for their money, as for amp people from main HE-400 thread recommend E17 to start with. Never heard HD600 or SRH1440 but still own not yet sold HD650 which are considered laid-back but after i heard HE-400's deep sub-bass I can't go back to HD650 so they now for sale

 

[jerg]

HE-400s fit your bill great. I also have (well...had) the M50's and the upgrade was perfect in every way. The planar sound (characteristically flat extremely well extended and clean bass, very real timbre, great 3D imaging, insane details across the entire frequency range) at only $400 is a great bargain. With the newest revision drivers and velour pads they are fantastically well-balanced from bass to treble, really alive and "fun" sound that is also very accurate.
 
If however you care about mids and a "smooth" sound more than details / imaging / dynamic aspects of sound, then HD650s are more for you; doesn't look like that's your sole priority though.

 

[TMRaven]

Very upfront mids and good soundstage, that's the HD600.  I've never heard the 1440.

 

[daniel521]

Quote:

HE-400 are a steal for their money, as for amp people from main HE-400 thread recommend E17 to start with. Never heard HD600 or SRH1440 but still own not yet sold HD650 which are considered laid-back but after i heard HE-400's deep sub-bass I can't go back to HD650 so they now for sale

I have a fiio e11, will that be enough or will the he-400 sound better with a desktop amp? should I get a DAC? Also, Im a bit skeptical about using the e11 because my m50 sounded laid back when I used the e11 but when I used it directly to the iphone, it sounded better and the songs seemed more forward rather than laid back; it was a lot more fun to listen to. The eq switch was at the maximum, was that maybe the problem, does bass make the sound a bit laid back?

 

[daniel521]

I didnt mean to dismiss other responses, thanks for all the help Im pretty confident about getting the he-400 now

 

[olegausany]

Quote:

I have a fiio e11, will that be enough or will the he-400 sound better with a desktop amp? should I get a DAC? Also, Im a bit skeptical about using the e11 because my m50 sounded laid back when I used the e11 but when I used it directly to the iphone, it sounded better and the songs seemed more forward rather than laid back; it was a lot more fun to listen to. The eq switch was at the maximum, was that maybe the problem, does bass make the sound a bit laid back?

E11 is definitely not enough. I heard HE-400 thru E11 connected to RCA out of Xonar STX and heard no difference comparing driven by STX headphones amp. I just discovered that i can get E17 locally plus slightly more expensive Audioengine D1 so I'm planning to get them tomorrow and compare with all 3 headphones I have right now which are HD650, D600 and D7000. As much as i know the switch on E11 just a bass boost while E17, DAC/AMP in one (D1 too), has controls for both bass and treble

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Very upfront mids and good soundstage, that's the HD600.  I've never heard the 1440.

HD-600 has very upfront mids? Never heard the HD-600 sound that way. I guess maybe lower mids. Still doesn't match his requirements IMO.
 
To my ears the HD-600 is quite laid-back. Puts me to sleep. I guess nobody here ever hears the headphone the same way.

 
I would suggest instead the HD-598. Larger soundstage than the 598, sounds cleaer and has more forward mids, but not as much mid-bass.
 
The 598 is also not too picky about amping. It'd be best with a computer DAC though.
 
Used HD-580 would work. I find it to be much more fun and engaging than the HD-600 despite the same driver. It's $150 used, but may be hard to find.

 

[TMRaven]

Upfront mids, yes.  In fact at times a bit too upfront to be truly neutral-- too much energy in 3-5khz area.  The 5khz area in particular seems to be something Sennheiser loves to throw at your face.  I find the HD650 to sound the exact same way.
 
 
I rather not get into the whole 'laid-back' discussion.  IMO it's a term that's so misused and mis-interpreted on head-fi, especially with the HD600/650 that it's ridiculous.  There's nothing laid-back at all about plenty of upper-mid energy.  It's what our ears are most sensitive to, and it's what gets amplified the most when a headphone is directly on your ears, too much of it isn't laid back at all.  But more importantly isn't the nature of the headphone's frequency response itself, but the music you listen to.  The music dictates whether or not the sound coming to your ears is laid back far, far more than the headphone itself.  Something more laid-back to me?  HE-400, or the Bowers & Wilkins P5.  A nice, warm sound that emulates speakers at lower levels perfectly.  I can tell you that the HE-400 is everything I thought the HD650 would be, based off all the hype about the HD650's 'gloriously warm and liquid sound' on head-fi.  
 
What I also find over exaggerated on head-fi is the difference between all the 500 sennheisers, and the 600 and 650.  HD598 still sounds a whole lot like 600.  Simply going from 600 to 598 won't give him a magical 'fun and engaging' sound.  I've never heard a 580 so I can't comment on that.
 
 
I guess I'll probably get the classic 'what's your source?' rhetorical head-fi question, but there's nothing wrong with the source, unless you're deliberately wanting to use the Sennheisers with an overly colored source.

 

[mosshorn]

Quote:

Upfront mids, yes.  In fact at times a bit too upfront to be truly neutral-- too much energy in 3-5khz area.  The 5khz area in particular seems to be something Sennheiser loves to throw at your face.  I find the HD650 to sound the exact same way.
 
 
I rather not get into the whole 'laid-back' discussion.  IMO it's a term that's so misused and mis-interpreted on head-fi, especially with the HD600/650 that it's ridiculous.  There's nothing laid-back at all about plenty of upper-mid energy.  It's what our ears are most sensitive to, and it's what gets amplified the most when a headphone is directly on your ears, too much of it isn't laid back at all.  But more importantly isn't the nature of the headphone's frequency response itself, but the music you listen to.  The music dictates whether or not the sound coming to your ears is laid back far, far more than the headphone itself.  Something more laid-back to me?  HE-400, or the Bowers & Wilkins P5.  A nice, warm sound that emulates speakers at lower levels perfectly.  I can tell you that the HE-400 is everything I thought the HD650 would be, based off all the hype about the HD650's 'gloriously warm and liquid sound' on head-fi.  
 
What I also find over exaggerated on head-fi is the difference between all the 500 sennheisers, and the 600 and 650.  HD598 still sounds a whole lot like 600.  Simply going from 600 to 598 won't give him a magical 'fun and engaging' sound.  I've never heard a 580 so I can't comment on that.
 
 
I guess I'll probably get the classic 'what's your source?' rhetorical head-fi question, but there's nothing wrong with the source, unless you're deliberately wanting to use the Sennheisers with an overly colored source.

 
 
I can agree to this. While I loved my HD600's, the sound was actually toe tapping when I had them. THough after a while, I kept getting sleepy with them. I thought about trying different things in my rig, but decided they just weren't for me for my main headphone. They are great though, and I haven't heard the HE-400 so no comment.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Upfront mids, yes.  In fact at times a bit too upfront to be truly neutral-- too much energy in 3-5khz area.  The 5khz area in particular seems to be something Sennheiser loves to throw at your face.  I find the HD650 to sound the exact same way.
 
 
I rather not get into the whole 'laid-back' discussion.  IMO it's a term that's so misused and mis-interpreted on head-fi, especially with the HD600/650 that it's ridiculous.  There's nothing laid-back at all about plenty of upper-mid energy.  It's what our ears are most sensitive to, and it's what gets amplified the most when a headphone is directly on your ears, too much of it isn't laid back at all.  But more importantly isn't the nature of the headphone's frequency response itself, but the music you listen to.  The music dictates whether or not the sound coming to your ears is laid back far, far more than the headphone itself.  Something more laid-back to me?  HE-400, or the Bowers & Wilkins P5.  A nice, warm sound that emulates speakers at lower levels perfectly.
 
What I also find over exaggerated on head-fi is the difference between all the 500 sennheisers, and the 600 and 650.  HD598 still sounds a whole lot like 600.  Simply going from 600 to 598 won't give him a magical 'fun and engaging' sound.  I've never heard a 580 so I can't comment on that.
 
 
I guess I'll probably get the classic 'what's your source?' rhetorical head-fi question, but there's nothing wrong with the source, unless you're deliberately wanting to use the Sennheisers with an overly colored source.

 
Definitely have to disagree there. I think many others who've had both might agree too. Everyone's idea of what's "fun and engaging" to THEM is different, so there's no point to this. What's fun to me is a snore fest to someone else. I think there's plenty of people out there that find the 598 "boring" due to them not having enough bass for their music. Forward mids and a decent amount of treble is what does it for me.
 
I guess the 598 is what I would have suggested because it has more forward mids and more treble than the HD-600 to my ears. Just no mid-bass hump that the HD-600 has. Sounds clearer too at times and has a larger soundstage.
 
I actually think the 598 sounds much different than the HD-600. Not so "sleepy" sounding. Not as warm as the HD-600 for sure. I also don't think the HD-650 is a majorly huge change from the HD-600, just another flavor of the Sennheiser sound. With some music they sounded fairly similar. I don't believe though that if someone liked the HD-600, they'd love the HD-650. It does seem there's quite a few people out there who generally dislike the HD-600/650, but love the 598. I think the 598 is one of their best headphones for sure.
 
BTW I wonder if theres any other headphones out there that are like a weird combination of an AKG Q701 and an HD-600. Probably not many. I think that would be my perfect headphone. The HD-598 is close, but I wish it was even clearer sounding.

 

[daniel521]

is the e17 enough as an amp AND dac or should or should I get a seperate amp and seperate dac?

 

[daniel521]

anyone?

 

[jerg]

Quote:

anyone?

 
Depends on the headphone, if you get the HE400s then the E17 will do very fine as a DAC+amp, if you go something like HD600 it will not nearly be a sufficient enough amp for them to 'unveil'.The DAC section is usually secondary to the amplifier, as a good DAC just feeds clean signal to the amp, and you'll be hard-pressed to notice any perceivable non-subjective improvements with a decent DAC vs a good DAC; amps are a different matter altogether.

 

[daniel521]

Quote:

 
Depends on the headphone, if you get the HE400s then the E17 will do very fine as a DAC+amp, if you go something like HD600 it will not nearly be a sufficient enough amp for them to 'unveil'.The DAC section is usually secondary to the amplifier, as a good DAC just feeds clean signal to the amp, and you'll be hard-pressed to notice any perceivable non-subjective improvements with a decent DAC vs a good DAC; amps are a different matter altogether.

will the e17 reach the he-400s full potential or will a good desktop amp + DAC sound better?