[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif @average_joe: What reference did you compare the changes to? Did you have a pair of fresh IE8 on hand for A-B test all through the burn in period for comparison? And all through 250 hours, have you always used the same equipment (source, amp, cabling) and accessories (tips, bass settings, etc)? Thanks!

Excellent questions!

 

[Beyerfan70]

Had two pairs and still have my second pair.
Had this second pair for a good two months and the sound is exactly the same as when i first used them.
Same with my first pair.
The only way the sound changes is if you use different tips or wear them different ways.
So to answer the question no they have not changed one bit.
They sound great out the box period.

 

[ipodlover77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, my comments on IE8 burn in can be found here Here are some of my burn in points, from memory: - 20 hours of burn in the soundstage opened up and the bass extended - 70 hours the treble started to come out - 100 hours the mid-bass hump was greatly reduced - 150-170 hours they surpassed the Phonak PFE (w/black filters) in detail. Mid-bass was down even more from 100 hours, and the treble was opening up. The soundstage seemed to widen quite a bit more. - 200 hours the treble kept opening up and the mid-bass hump was down even more leaving a warm presentation - 250 hours the treble is fully opened up, audible to 17KHz (my hearing might be limiting that) see here for more detail. - 250+ hours, really enjoying them Burn in time depends upon personal taste and what other headphones you listen/compare to. Some people like it out of the box, some don't. I didn't, but now I am loving it! I believe it takes somewhere between 200 and 250 hours to fully burn in, YMMV.

do you guys just leave it on over night or is that personally burned in?

 

[ottoyu34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, my comments on IE8 burn in can be found -407289-post5388239/#post5388239"]here[/URL] for more detail. - 250+ hours, really enjoying them Burn in time depends upon personal taste and what other headphones you listen/compare to. Some people like it out of the box, some don't. I didn't, but now I am loving it! I believe it takes somewhere between 200 and 250 hours to fully burn in, YMMV.

I have notice the soundstage widen up around 150hours. It is the vocals that make me notice the difference.

Otto

 

[Scott549]

I would LOVE to do an A/B test between a brand new set and the 250 hrs. burned-in set. My prediction -- Average Joe could not tell the difference.

I could be wrong, of course.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif @average_joe: What reference did you compare the changes to? Did you have a pair of fresh IE8 on hand for A-B test all through the burn in period for comparison? And all through 250 hours, have you always used the same equipment (source, amp, cabling) and accessories (tips, bass settings, etc)? Thanks!

In my first post in this thread I have some links, one which is to my comparison between the Phonak Audeo PFE (a single BA driver). All of these answers are in there

I had a brand new IE8, but compared it to the PFE, which didn't change sound the entire time, except with tip and/or filter changes. I primarily used my well burned in Fuze for all listening, and another system for continuous burn in.

I was initially somewhat impressed with the PFE, and when I put in the black filters after 5 minutes the PFEs sounded exceptional to me. Switching to the olives, then the Comply tips were also steps up in sound to my ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg /img/forum/go_quote.gif a thousand % huh?

Maybe! Since that % is subjective, I would agree 1000% from the first listen to now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkingman /img/forum/go_quote.gif The soundstage has really opened up today. I think there's about 15 hours of burn-in already.

Yea, somewhere around there, as I left them burning in for almost a day after my initial listen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif I liked the IE8 immediately, and didn't think they sounded crap at all out of the box. But I liked them a whole lot more after 10 hours or so, not because I noticed any major changes - but because I adjusted to the sound signature pretty fast. When I had my TF10, I remember thinking they sounded plain weird out of the box (and balanced armatures don't need any burn-in), but it did take me a few hours to adjust to the different sound, by which time I loved them. So my 'ears' adjusted, but the sound didn't change. With the IE8, I like them more all the time - but I'm not convinced it has anything to do with burn-in. I think it's just because they sound amazing!

Yea, you liked them, Feather doesn't like his sound out of the box. Neither did I. I think on first listen they were HORRIBLE. So slow, it was weird how slow they were, I had never heard anything like it. On a song I knew well the beats would come noticeably later than they should have. And what a difference a day made. Now, what a difference 11 days make!

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott549 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would LOVE to do an A/B test between a brand new set and the 250 hrs. burned-in set. My prediction -- Average Joe could not tell the difference. I could be wrong, of course.

Send em to me just labeled A and B...I bet you I WOULD be able to tell the difference, pretty easily also. Especially if one was BRAND new!

From a physics standpoint, I believe in burn in, but it is not usually anywhere near as long as for IEMs. Why? Logic tells me because the sound cavity is so small, the drivers move minuscule amounts, requiring more time to break in the materials. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion, as I have not scientifically proven it in a lab (and even if I did, there would still be doubters).

 

[btnh47]

Yea there was definitely a change after burning in the IE8's.

The moment I opened the box..
I took a listen (right away was disapointed with the way it sounded).. the bass was a bit muddy.

I started having them burned in with pink noise throughout the next 24 hours.. I took a listen by then and noticed the slightly larger sound stage, and the bass now sounded cleaner and tighter.

Basically.. everything that Average_Joe said, is right on point from what I experienced with the IE8's. Only.. I stopped burning them in after 110+ hours.

 

[pdupiano]

well on a side note. of not exaggerating, I've left these and my monsters on over night several nights now and I usually place my ipod/fuze at 75-80 percent volumes. Yesterday I couldnt hear the music (it didnt interrupt my tv watching), but this morning theyre noticeably louder... I guess thats burn in, or atleast as non-exagerated as I can make it. But honestly, anyone that says these sound HORRIBLE, should really consider what they mean by horrible. Do they sound like cheapo buds? Do they spew out music that makes your eardrums shrivel and leave you deaf? Exagerrations aside, these aren't HORRIBLE out of the box, they may be bad but I could tell right away that the soundstage was much MUCH better than other iems I've tried and the bass was similar to the monsters. THAT ... is not horrible. And then to claim that they miraculously become AMAZING after 200 hours is a bit dubious primarily because of the amount of material that needs to get burned in. Don't get me wrong, I think burn in is real, but I don't believe its a night and day difference it helps and it adds those extra features that makes the sound quality go from 90% - 95% or higher but to believe that they can go from zero to hero is just quite frankly unbelievable.

OP, I'd recommend a burn in time of approx 2 days (8 hours with 4 hour breaks in between). Throw complex music with some pink noise eg. 8 hours music, 4 hours break, 8 hours pink 4 hours break etc... Atleast that's how I did it. And at this point for anyone that A/B's a memory and their burned in pair has to at the very least admit that they may very well be wrong. I don't claim to be a memory champ, but I do remember melodies and the way things sound (I transcribe a lot of songs/guitar solos from memory) and even I can't rely on my memory when it comes to remembering what headphones sound like pre and post burn in. There are differences, but these differences aren't that big, they may help with clarity and over all soundstaging but aside from that I havent noticed anything else, (if anything its me getting used to the headphones, as I got used to my SE530, Ety4p/s). The best explanation of what I can tell changed is that before burn in, the music sounded like it was mushed in together. Imagine an orchestra or a band that scrunches up into a little ball and all the music eminates from that small ball. After some burn in time, they began to separate and I could clearly differentiate between the instruments and their stage presence. But the change hasnt been that exagerrated as my statement above, its just that things begin to separate out more.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif well on a side note. of not exaggerating, I've left these and my monsters on over night several nights now and I usually place my ipod/fuze at 75-80 percent volumes. Yesterday I couldnt hear the music (it didnt interrupt my tv watching), but this morning theyre noticeably louder... I guess thats burn in, or atleast as non-exagerated as I can make it. But honestly, anyone that says these sound HORRIBLE, should really consider what they mean by horrible. Do they sound like cheapo buds? Do they spew out music that makes your eardrums shrivel and leave you deaf? Exagerrations aside, these aren't HORRIBLE out of the box, they may be bad but I could tell right away that the soundstage was much MUCH better than other iems I've tried and the bass was similar to the monsters. THAT ... is not horrible. And then to claim that they miraculously become AMAZING after 200 hours is a bit dubious primarily because of the amount of material that needs to get burned in. Don't get me wrong, I think burn in is real, but I don't believe its a night and day difference it helps and it adds those extra features that makes the sound quality go from 90% - 95% or higher but to believe that they can go from zero to hero is just quite frankly unbelievable.

To my ears, HORRIBLE. I was A/Bing them with the PFE, which is a BA with deep, accurate, punchy bass, liquid mids, and extended, beautiful highs. Now compare that with muddy, slow, not extended bass, mid-bass hump, and no treble comparatively. Yes, to me they sounded HORRIBLE.

But I knew they would get much better. And they did. I don't doubt my ears. Plus, how many of these people that say there is no difference were A/Bing them with quality, full spectrum BAs?

Take it for what it's worth...it doesn't matter to me if you like them at first listen, after 10 hours, 100 hours, or never. I am just sharing my experience

 

[communic]

While I don't own a pair of IE8's myself I have owned enough dynamic based iems to not be a true believer of *physical* burn in or at least it to be a negligible amount. Mental burn in on the other I do believe in. Of all earphones I've had they always sound different a few hours after originally listening to them especially if you have got used to a different sound or have taken a relatively long break from listening to music.

Heck, I didn't particularly find my BA X10's that good when I first listened to them but upon more critical listening they really started to open up and increased soundstage was one of the first changes I noticed after a few hours. Now should that be happening on a BA phone, most would argue no, but then one can never discount the importance of the brain and auditory system when it comes to changes in the perception of how music sounds over time.

 

[walkingman]

Well I do believe in mental burn-in, though I do notice my IE 8's improvement in bass response and soundstage despite listening to them only a couple of times in between the burn-in stages.

What I do not believe however is the requirement by end users to burn-in. The IE 8 sounds harsh the minute I unpack them. I compared them to my CX 95 and it sounded worse. I left it alone for about an hour (not in my ears) and immediately when I put them on I noticed a huge amount of improvement. No mental burn-in here, just a quick listen: once unpacked, another after an hour later.

Like everything else in life, some people can easily notice even the most minor of improvement, where as some may not even notice them. Just like some aren't capable of telling the difference between say 192kbps and 160kbps MP3 files while some can't even tell the differences between lossless and 128kbps.

 

[zardos]

I'm on the second pair IE8. The first pair was well burned in (respectively my ears were well acclimated with it's sound signature) before it got crushed by a car. Two days later I got the second pair. The bass was muddy and thin, also the treble was slightly harsh. Yes, I would say it sounded horrible compared to my first pair. After about 10-20 hours of use the second pair was fine again.

Hard to tell about long time burn in effects. All I can say is, over time to me the difference between SE530 and IE8 got bigger sound quality wise. After 2 weeks I though: "Nice, about the same sound quality as the SE530". Today, after three month of use I think the IE8 sound much better than SE530. Very hard to switch back to SE530 now.

 

[Scott549]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Send em to me just labeled A and B...I bet you I WOULD be able to tell the difference, pretty easily also. Especially if one was BRAND new! From a physics standpoint, I believe in burn in, but it is not usually anywhere near as long as for IEMs. Why? Logic tells me because the sound cavity is so small, the drivers move minuscule amounts, requiring more time to break in the materials. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion, as I have not scientifically proven it in a lab (and even if I did, there would still be doubters).

The problem I have is that NO ONE has scientifically proven it in a lab; that's why I think it's the brain that is getting burned in. I think people should recognize it for what it is, and I don't understand the need for people to think the speakers, as opposed to their brain, are changing.

 

[pdupiano]

I'm sorry average_joe but I think by in large its pretty pointless to make claims, write reviews, and then end it with a YMMV post. Considering that your words/reviews have a great impact on other people's decisions. You've heavily defended the IE8's and have had a lot of great comments about them, but then when someone questions your comments you quickly hide behind a YMMV-Shield. I think just take the comments and counter them.

BTW A/B different headphones comparing pre and post burn in of one of them is a little dubious (what if the phonaks changed their sound sig as well -probably not, but just maybe). Further more if I remember correctly, you review had a big change after you changed the filter on the phonaks (so could you have been A/B pre burn in + bad filter versus post burn in + good filter)? In which case your assessments were coloured. Furthermore, there is "mental burn-in" as many of us have pointed out and from what I can tell A/B anything other than the same set of headphones as Zardos did is pointless its not really A/B (because you've added additional variables to what you're comparing -your no longer comparing the ie8s).

At this point I would trust Zardos' comments beyond most considering he's the only one I know of who's tried a full burn in version and a pre burn in version. (although it sucks why he had the opportunity to do so -sorry mate). On a side note, I Think that long term difference, may just be your ears adjusting to the sound sig. I have yet to try any other iems besides the senns and the monsters but I hope to try out the se530's this weekend to see what happens. I'm expecting to frown as soon as I put the se530's on my ears.... its just when you hear "full sized" iems its hard to go back to regular ones. I have the senns on right now and I'm listening to Coldplay's Parachutte's album and it feels like I'm in a small concert (about 30 people) and the music sounds amazing, I've never heard anythign like it even with the W3 and especially never with my etys or se530. and I'm not going to put a YMMV sign post, I'm going to say that if you try these out, the sheer amount of headstage will blow you away.