[Lohb]

  Update: One week Pure I20 + X12 + H10 + Audeze LCD-2f.  I have somewhere between 30 and 40 hours on this combination so far.  It's hard to believe that equipment this expensive and with such great reviews can sound so horrible out of the box.  Everything initially in the middle was pushed forward at the expense of the top end and especially the low end.  I could hear the promise of greater things in music with spare instrumentation but any passage with much orchestration sounded muddled and confused.  Vocals that I remember as powerful from my HFI-2400 sounded thin and full of echo through the LCD-2f.  At the beginning I was using an Ipod Touch as a source.  When that sounded so bad I switched to an Ipod Nano and eventually to an Ipad Gen 2.
 
Finally after 5 days there was some improvement with the middle still shoved forward but now better definition. Finally there was a little bass but not what I would call good much less great.  Because of the lack of low end I feel it contributes to the middle lacking fullness(thin and echo). Thinking the I20 might be a weak link, I use my HP laptop as a source using the USB as connector.  I only had time last night to A/B one song going back and forth between the HP and the Ipad(on the I20) and did not hear a significant difference.  Now every now and then a song will play and I hear what I thought I would hear based on the reviews and comments in this thread.
 
Now to confess the user limiting factors.  60 years of age is in the rear view mirror.  I spent 2 years running a 40 ft Litho press in a room with 6 other presses.  For 40 years headphones have been my preferred way of enjoying music.  I've attended nearly 400 rock concerts.  Classic rock is my preferred genre of music and I suspect a lot of what I like was just not recorded that well and that fact is revealed by a hi-fi headphone system.
 
With all the above said I hope I have not made a very expensive mistake.  I have read this thread from beginning to end and don't recall the lack of low end especially with the LCD-2f to have been a prominent problem, al least not to the extent that I am experiencing.  Please feel fear to chime in with suggestions, commiserations, and reassurances.  Hopefully the next week will bring further improvement.

Some people find LCD-2c bass light if they came from hard hitting dynamic cones...and by a lot of impressions 2F has less low-end heft again....Planar low-end is a different animal to adjust to at first for some people, then the texture and speed come to the forefront of the exp. vs 1-note fartiness.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Well, I am in the drop for this amp. I've been seriously researching SS amps for months. I just was tempted by the deal and the purported similarities between this and Lake People/ Violectric amps. I very much look forward to pairing this with the Gungnir through balanced input.

 

[Arnotts]

Alright, I've just done a more thorough comparison with the HD800's on both of my rigs. This is my procrastination instead of studying 

 
Gustard U12 --> TOSLINK >Matrix M-Stage DAC --> RCA > Matrix M-Stage amp --> HD800's
 
Wonderful sound, especially for the price for the whole setup. The sound of the HD800's comes through very well. I wrote down some notes for the seven test tracks that I used, and they all said similar things:
 
• Holographic, spacious soundstage
• Imaging is great, but it's noticeable that some elements are a little blurred together (this is a nitpick from very critical listening)
• Slight tilt towards the treble region, an airy, detailed and slightly "thin" sound
• Still sounds natural/neutral, the slight tilt towards the treble region allows more detail to come through, and allows the music to have a better sense of space between elements
• Bass goes deep and has nice texture, but lacks some presence imo
• Musical sound - I don't consider the sound to have excessive micro-detail or excessively highlight flaws in recordings
• No harshness, sibilance or glare (unless it's present in the recording)
 
The U12 improves the imaging/soundstage and helps mitigate any potential treble glare imo. Makes the whole chain sound more musical and enjoyable.
 
Gustard X12 DAC --> balanced XLR > Gustard H10 amp --> HD800's
 
Even more refined than the M-Stage stack - an improvement in every way to my ears. All the positive aspects from the M-Stage rig still exist, but are improved upon even further. The differences would only be heard if you are truly actively LISTENING to the music, though, not just passively "hearing" the music.
 
• Bass is a little bit more powerful and present (this gives the headphones a better balance imo)
• Imaging and separation is improved even further (more space between elements in the music, easier to pick out where each element is located in the soundstage)
• More details are evident in each sound
• Still retains that smoothness that keeps the sound from getting overly bright/detailed, keeps it very enjoyable
 
TL;DR
X12 + H10 is better with the HD800's, but I have absolutely no issue with using and enjoying the M-Stage stack when using the HD800's, too.

 

[FlySweep]

Well, I am in the drop for this amp. I've been seriously researching SS amps for months. I just was tempted by the deal and the purported similarities between this and Lake People/ Violectric amps. I very much look forward to pairing this with the Gungnir through balanced input.

 
As someone whose owned both a Violectric amp (V200) & Lake People amp (G109).. and loved them both.. I sense you'll be very happy with the H10.. the H10 was my fav out of the three.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

As someone whose owned both a Violectric amp (V200) & Lake People amp (G109).. and loved them both.. I sense you'll be very happy with the H10.. the H10 was my fav out of the three.

Smiley face times 1,000,000

 

[Liu Junyuan]

As someone whose owned both a Violectric amp (V200) & Lake People amp (G109).. and loved them both.. I sense you'll be very happy with the H10.. the H10 was my fav out of the three.

Sorry for double-post. Could you please possible elaborate as to why?

 

[sahmen]

Also in the drop. Reading this thread convinced me. We'll see where this rabbit hole leads.

 

[Lohb]

  Also in the drop. Reading this thread convinced me. We'll see where this rabbit hole leads.

Great drop for USA, but the shipping negates the saving for me.. ;-(
Wonder what price the balanced amp will come in at....

 

[Utopia]

  That's amazing that you find the H10 warmer and fuller than the Crack for your T1s. Do you still hold up to that impression?

 
I still think it sounds warmer and fuller, after about 70 hours, in the sense that the sound is darker, rounder, with more prominent bass. The Crack sounds brighter, but still with a very nice smoothness to its sound. Of course the sound of the Crack depends on tubes (mine are stock).

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I still think it sounds warmer and fuller, after about 70 hours, in the sense that the sound is darker, rounder, with more prominent bass. The Crack sounds brighter, but still with a very nice smoothness to its sound. Of course the sound of the Crack depends on tubes (mine are stock).

Thank you. I dont know what to make of this now since Im actually trying to make my system less warm: this is why I want an SS amp in the first place. Hmmm

 

[conquerator2]

SS amps that sound 'warmer' are almost always still very close to neutral. From my understanding, it is nowhere near tube warm... From my experience as well... SS amps never sounded significantly warm to me... I should really give the Vali a shot eventually I guess. 

 

 

[Chodi]

 
Great drop for USA, but the shipping negates the saving for me.. ;-(
Wonder what price the balanced amp will come in at....

Here is a solution:  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GUSTARD-H10-amp-high-current-Class-A-Headphone-Amplifier-AC115V-230V/32264637987.html

 

[olek]

My wallet is mumbling something under its breath about all of you raising ruckus over H10.
Can not hear if it is something good or bad.
 
In for the drop.
 
One hour or so left, if YOU are still on a fence, hurry!

 

[Joong]

Update: One week Pure I20 + X12 + H10 + Audeze LCD-2f.  I have somewhere between 30 and 40 hours on this combination so far.  It's hard to believe that equipment this expensive and with such great reviews can sound so horrible out of the box.  Everything initially in the middle was pushed forward at the expense of the top end and especially the low end.  I could hear the promise of greater things in music with spare instrumentation but any passage with much orchestration sounded muddled and confused.  Vocals that I remember as powerful from my HFI-2400 sounded thin and full of echo through the LCD-2f.  At the beginning I was using an Ipod Touch as a source.  When that sounded so bad I switched to an Ipod Nano and eventually to an Ipad Gen 2.

Finally after 5 days there was some improvement with the middle still shoved forward but now better definition. Finally there was a little bass but not what I would call good much less great.  Because of the lack of low end I feel it contributes to the middle lacking fullness(thin and echo). Thinking the I20 might be a weak link, I use my HP laptop as a source using the USB as connector.  I only had time last night to A/B one song going back and forth between the HP and the Ipad(on the I20) and did not hear a significant difference.  Now every now and then a song will play and I hear what I thought I would hear based on the reviews and comments in this thread.

Now to confess the user limiting factors.  60 years of age is in the rear view mirror.  I spent 2 years running a 40 ft Litho press in a room with 6 other presses.  For 40 years headphones have been my preferred way of enjoying music.  I've attended nearly 400 rock concerts.  Classic rock is my preferred genre of music and I suspect a lot of what I like was just not recorded that well and that fact is revealed by a hi-fi headphone system.

With all the above said I hope I have not made a very expensive mistake.  I have read this thread from beginning to end and don't recall the lack of low end especially with the LCD-2f to have been a prominent problem, al least not to the extent that I am experiencing.  Please feel fear to chime in with suggestions, commiserations, and reassurances.  Hopefully the next week will bring further improvement.

Probably the bad SQ may be due to noise around the Sources. The position of source ( dac) is exposed to noise of digital switching or modularions so that high frequency noise known as Rfi can be aliased back to audible range.
When you design an electrical transducer, design is something and EMC design is yet another.
This might be reason why Audio Gd has so much power related subsystems to support noise sinking to the sea of zero impedance for noise path.
Usual zero impedance is through capacitor bank in genral.if you could not find the path, then you can absorbe the noise energy by applying ferrite pad. Or you can reroute the cable around the dac. The cable can act as dipole attenna to receive or emit noises.
When you really appreciate the pure music or signal with usual Dac, the RFI should be solved some how as Stuwart did for his x12.
My Conductor began to have the value when I blocked the noise path and it became different one now.

 

[conquerator2]

Would there be any benefit to use an XLR to RCA cable to connect the X12's balanced XLR output to a single-ended RCA amplifier input?
Is such a connection safe?
Something like this for example - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Livewire-2-x-Female-XLR-To-2-x-RCA-Phono-Twin-Lead-1-5M-Cable-/331275589928?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d21905928
Thanks