[bavinck]

I can't find a dedicated x12 thread, so not sure if this is the best place to ask. Has anyone compared the x12 to audio gd nfb1? Is there a general consensus on which dac works better with the h10?

 

[pippen99]

Update: One week Pure I20 + X12 + H10 + Audeze LCD-2f.  I have somewhere between 30 and 40 hours on this combination so far.  It's hard to believe that equipment this expensive and with such great reviews can sound so horrible out of the box.  Everything initially in the middle was pushed forward at the expense of the top end and especially the low end.  I could hear the promise of greater things in music with spare instrumentation but any passage with much orchestration sounded muddled and confused.  Vocals that I remember as powerful from my HFI-2400 sounded thin and full of echo through the LCD-2f.  At the beginning I was using an Ipod Touch as a source.  When that sounded so bad I switched to an Ipod Nano and eventually to an Ipad Gen 2.
 
Finally after 5 days there was some improvement with the middle still shoved forward but now better definition. Finally there was a little bass but not what I would call good much less great.  Because of the lack of low end I feel it contributes to the middle lacking fullness(thin and echo). Thinking the I20 might be a weak link, I use my HP laptop as a source using the USB as connector.  I only had time last night to A/B one song going back and forth between the HP and the Ipad(on the I20) and did not hear a significant difference.  Now every now and then a song will play and I hear what I thought I would hear based on the reviews and comments in this thread.
 
Now to confess the user limiting factors.  60 years of age is in the rear view mirror.  I spent 2 years running a 40 ft Litho press in a room with 6 other presses.  For 40 years headphones have been my preferred way of enjoying music.  I've attended nearly 400 rock concerts.  Classic rock is my preferred genre of music and I suspect a lot of what I like was just not recorded that well and that fact is revealed by a hi-fi headphone system.
 
With all the above said I hope I have not made a very expensive mistake.  I have read this thread from beginning to end and don't recall the lack of low end especially with the LCD-2f to have been a prominent problem, al least not to the extent that I am experiencing.  Please feel fear to chime in with suggestions, commiserations, and reassurances.  Hopefully the next week will bring further improvement.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

  Update: One week Pure I20 + X12 + H10 + Audeze LCD-2f.  I have somewhere between 30 and 40 hours on this combination so far.  It's hard to believe that equipment this expensive and with such great reviews can sound so horrible out of the box.  Everything initially in the middle was pushed forward at the expense of the top end and especially the low end.  I could hear the promise of greater things in music with spare instrumentation but any passage with much orchestration sounded muddled and confused.  Vocals that I remember as powerful from my HFI-2400 sounded thin and full of echo through the LCD-2f.  At the beginning I was using an Ipod Touch as a source.  When that sounded so bad I switched to an Ipod Nano and eventually to an Ipad Gen 2.
 
Finally after 5 days there was some improvement with the middle still shoved forward but now better definition. Finally there was a little bass but not what I would call good much less great.  Because of the lack of low end I feel it contributes to the middle lacking fullness(thin and echo). Thinking the I20 might be a weak link, I use my HP laptop as a source using the USB as connector.  I only had time last night to A/B one song going back and forth between the HP and the Ipad(on the I20) and did not hear a significant difference.  Now every now and then a song will play and I hear what I thought I would hear based on the reviews and comments in this thread.
 
Now to confess the user limiting factors.  60 years of age is in the rear view mirror.  I spent 2 years running a 40 ft Litho press in a room with 6 other presses.  For 40 years headphones have been my preferred way of enjoying music.  I've attended nearly 400 rock concerts.  Classic rock is my preferred genre of music and I suspect a lot of what I like was just not recorded that well and that fact is revealed by a hi-fi headphone system.
 
With all the above said I hope I have not made a very expensive mistake.  I have read this thread from beginning to end and don't recall the lack of low end especially with the LCD-2f to have been a prominent problem, al least not to the extent that I am experiencing.  Please feel fear to chime in with suggestions, commiserations, and reassurances.  Hopefully the next week will bring further improvement.

I am really sorry to hear that. If you don't mind me asking, what previous headphones were you using? It's hard to tell if you just don't like the headphones as they are or whether this can be attributed to the gear through which you're listening to them.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

  I'll be able to draw comparisons to the things I've owned, which are in my signature.

Have you received the X12 yet?

 

[Liu Junyuan]

   
I've had that combination for a total of 24 hours now! 

 Still breaking in, but so far I'm very happy with it. The plan is to replace my T1s with HE560s, but right now I can't think of why.
 
IMHO the H10 sounds warmer and fuller than both the Audio GD SA-31 and Bottlehead Crack (of course that depends on the tubes). All three amps are great, and probably very equal in overall quality, but for the moment I enjoy the fullness of the sound, which goes great with the clarity of the T1.

That's amazing that you find the H10 warmer and fuller than the Crack for your T1s. Do you still hold up to that impression?

 

[Arnotts]

@pippen99
 
I primarily use the X12 + H10 with my LCD-X's, and recently I've been using it with the HD800's too.
 
I've taken my LCD-2F's to my other PC with the X12 + H10 and I'm listening to them right now. I actually think the Gustard combo sounds better after it's been left on and running for a while, but it still sounds excellent to me from a cold start.
 
It was actually this very setup (minus the X12 at the time) that got me to sell my Ultrasone Pro 900's - I no longer needed them as electronica headphones. The LCD-2's provided higher quality, thicker, deeper and yet tighter bass for me.
 
This setup still sounds fantastic to me. I'm listening to KOAN Sound - Eastern Thug (bass heavy glitch hop) and it sounds incredible. Thick, deep, textured and impactful bass.
 
Other songs from different genres have all been sounding great too. It's a more raw, resolving presentation than the M-Stages, which are smoother and not quite as good at imaging/soundstage presentation.
 
Steely Dan - Peg
Coldplay - Sparks
Tom Petty - Something In the Air
Jet - Are You Gonna Be My Girl
 
All sound excellent, too. The LCD-2F's sound so good to me, that I want to keep all three of my top tier headphones; LCD-X's, HD800's and LCD-2F's. The X's are better in most ways, sure, but the 2F's still offer a beautiful, high-end sound that I love to listen to.
 
Hopefully it improves for you, mate. Everyone that I've shown these headphones to has been blown away by how music sounds.

 

[pippen99]

  I am really sorry to hear that. If you don't mind me asking, what previous headphones were you using? It's hard to tell if you just don't like the headphones as they are or whether this can be attributed to the gear through which you're listening to them.

I've never been one to buy or sell equipment through the years.  Long ago I started with Koss Pro4AA then moved on to Koss ESP 9 electrostatic headphones which I used for years.  After those I moved to Ultrasone HFI-700 and then on to Ultrasone HFI-2400.  I was considering going further upscale in the Ultrasone line but was influenced by this Forum to consider Audeze or HiFiMan as Ultrasone does not appear to be on the radar of Head-fiers

 

[conquerator2]

  Have you received the X12 yet?

No. Tomorrow I hope 

 

[auvgeek]

@pippen99: If you listen daily, just leave the system on all the time, especially the DAC. That's what I've been doing, and I think it just sounds better. Are you sure all your interconnects are attached properly and the switches are in the proper position for your setup? One additional random guess is that your recordings are the weak link—maybe try the free Spotify premium trial (1 month), free Tidal trial (7 days), or one of the HD Tracks free samples. Just a thought.
 
I don't have the X12, but the H10 + LCD-2F pairing is amazing, particularly in mid-bass. Percussion hits hard and tight. Sub bass isn't quite as prominent (compared to HE-560), but I actually prefer that.

 

[auvgeek]

  No. Tomorrow I hope 

Said it before, but I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on the Gungnir vs X12. I don't think anyone else has been able to offer that comparison yet, and one of these two will likely be my next DAC. (Or maybe the new X20, depending on price.)

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I've never been one to buy or sell equipment through the years.  Long ago I started with Koss Pro4AA then moved on to Koss ESP 9 electrostatic headphones which I used for years.  After those I moved to Ultrasone HFI-700 and then on to Ultrasone HFI-2400.  I was considering going further upscale in the Ultrasone line but was influenced by this Forum to consider Audeze or HiFiMan as Ultrasone does not appear to be on the radar of Head-fiers

Gotchya. I would suggest giving it some more time and do ensure your gain switches are properly set. Let your ears try to adjust. I usually feel disappointed with high end headphones, especially when I bought my HD650s. If you still feel dissatisfied after a week or two, perhaps it would be time to readjust by returning/selling the gear for another setup. Also, I really cannot emphasize how important it is to play high quality files. Although debatable, I would not listen to anything less than 320 bps mp3s or lossless through that setup. If you are in to classic rock, Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here is a good one) and Rush use pretty high quality recordings.

I do not own the H10 yet but am looking at joining the drop soon, after much deliberation over a solid SS setup for my headphones. I was very close to going with Lake People G109, but this H10 is seeming highly comparable while being more affordable.

Anyways, I hope you come to enjoy your gear as much as some others have said.

 

[pippen99]

  @pippen99: If you listen daily, just leave the system on all the time, especially the DAC. That's what I've been doing, and I think it just sounds better. Are you sure all your interconnects are attached properly and the switches are in the proper position for your setup? One additional random guess is that your recordings are the weak link—maybe try the free Spotify premium trial (1 month), free Tidal trial (7 days), or one of the HD Tracks free samples. Just a thought.
 
I don't have the X12, but the H10 + LCD-2F pairing is amazing, particularly in mid-bass. Percussion hits hard and tight. Sub bass isn't quite as prominent (compared to HE-560), but I actually prefer that.

I am using balanced interconnects and according to previous posts if I didn't have the switches in the correct position I wouldn't be getting proper volume, so I'm sure I'm okay there.  I left the gain switches alone and if I understand their use they would not affect sound quality.  The readout on the X12 follows:  Opti(using optical between I20 and X12), sharp, 44.1K, 00db.  When I made the decision to get a hi-fi system I reripped all my CDs using Apple lossless so except what I purchased from ITunes bitrate 780-900 kbps sample rate 44.1 kHz.

 

[pippen99]

Gotchya. I would suggest giving it some more time and do ensure your gain switches are properly set. Let your ears try to adjust. I usually feel disappointed with high end headphones, especially when I bought my HD650s. If you still feel dissatisfied after a week or two, perhaps it would be time to readjust by returning/selling the gear for another setup. Also, I really cannot emphasize how important it is to play high quality files. Although debatable, I would not listen to anything less than 320 bps mp3s or lossless through that setup. If you are in to classic rock, Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here is a good one) and Rush use pretty high quality recordings.

I do not own the H10 yet but am looking at joining the drop soon, after much deliberation over a solid SS setup for my headphones. I was very close to going with Lake People G109, but this H10 is seeming highly comparable while being more affordable.

Anyways, I hope you come to enjoy your gear as much as some others have said.

I am new at this hobby.  I was under the impression the gain switches would affect power output and would have little to do with sound quality.

 

[auvgeek]

  I was under the impression the gain switches would affect power output and would have little to do with sound quality.

I think you're correct there. Moreover, I think the H10 sounds great with the LCD-2F at zero gain.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

  I am new at this hobby.  I was under the impression the gain switches would affect power output and would have little to do with sound quality.

Sorry, yeah, I was more referring to if you had the gain set too high, which might make music sounds distorted--kind of like how you described it in your first post.